NEW Colgan Memo... YGBFSM!!! WTF!!!

[ImbracableCrunk]

Did that place run one of these, but with wings? :erm:

I think they tried it that way, too.

 

[knightflyer]

....uke:

 

[Erlanger]

Probably just a typo.

 

[Andy Neill]

Regardless of circumstances in the scheduled domestic 121 world, if you are on duty for a minute more than 16 hours, you are wrong.

121.471b says:
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no certificate holder conducting domestic operations may schedule a flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time during the 24 consecutive hours preceding the scheduled completion of any flight segment without a scheduled rest period during that 24 hours of at least the following:
Then it goes on to outline the normal rest of 9-11 hours dependent on flight time.

the exception in c says:
(c) A certificate holder may schedule a flight crewmember for less than the rest required in paragraph (b) of this section or may reduce a scheduled rest under the following conditions:
Then it goes on to outline reduced rest of 8-9 hours dependent on flight time.

Note that there is no case that allows flight with less than 8 hours rest in the last 24 hours making a de facto duty limit of 16 hours.

 

[regionaltard]

FWIW I am 99% sure that this is a proprietary memo. What that means is you can get in deep deep do do for having it up here. Just a word of caution.
Like most companies I am sure it is copyright protected et al.

Someone ought to be handing out copies of this memo to the people in line at Continental ticket counters nationwide.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Yeah, the domestic -121 rules are very nice.

I have never flown using them, unfortunately for me. Still trying!!!
cliff
NBO

 

[DOVPILOT]

someone should send this memo to Fox or CNN and let them put thier spin on it.

 

[V1cutsrfun]

someone should send this memo to Fox or CNN and let them put thier spin on it.

Believe me... there are enough extremly PISSED OFF people around here.... it just might happen....

V1

 

[FO 4 Life]

Regardless of circumstances in the scheduled domestic 121 world, if you are on duty for a minute more than 16 hours, you are wrong.

Note that there is no case that allows flight with less than 8 hours rest in the last 24 hours making a de facto duty limit of 16 hours.

That's because you are looking at 121. If it's a Part 91 ferry to position for a 121 flight then these rules apply. If it's a tail end Part 91 they don't.

 

[papanovember]

Believe me... there are enough extremly PISSED OFF people around here.... it just might happen....

V1

I already did and I don't even work there. Anyone have that memo from Christmas time when they threatened people for calling in sick? I think that one needs to be exposed also.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Straight from ALPA's Guide to Flight Time Limitations and Rest Requirements

Q-3. A flight crewmember has flown 30 hours in a six-day period. On the sixth day, can the carrier assign the crewmember to fly a ferry flight following the completion of the revenue flying that will cause the crewmember to exceed 30 hours of flying within a seven-day period?

A-3. Yes. Ferry flights are normally conducted under Part 91, and the flight-time limitations are applicable only to Parts 121 and 135. Some carriers do apply Parts 121 and 135 to ferry and repositioning flights. If you are unsure as to whether it is Part 91 flying, you should make appropriate inquiries. However, ferry flight time under Part 91 must be counted as “other commercial flying” to determine compliance with the monthly and yearly flight-time limits. Moreover, if the ferry flight time is accumulated before attaining 30 hours of flight, then it must be counted in determining the 30-hour limitation.

Q-3a. A pilot is scheduled to fly 7.5 hours with a tail-end ferry of 2 hours for a total flight time of 9.5 hours. This example raises two questions: (a) can the pilot fly the ferry flight since that will cause him to exceed 8 hours without an intervening rest; (b) how much rest must be scheduled?

A-3a. (a) The pilot can operate the ferry flight since it follows revenue
flying. If the ferry flight preceded the revenue flying, the pilot could not complete the schedule because it would exceed 8 hours without an intervening rest. The actual time flown must be counted towards the weekly, monthly and yearly time limitations.
(b) The pilot must be scheduled for 9 consecutive hours of rest. This rest may be reduced to 8 hours if the crewmember is given a 10-hour compensatory rest that must begin no later than 24 hours after the commencement of the reduced rest. Ferry flight time must be counted to calculate the rest period.

 

[Andy Neill]

That's because you are looking at 121. If it's a Part 91 ferry to position for a 121 flight then these rules apply. If it's a tail end Part 91 they don't.

My error. I was staying on topic concerning the memo from a Domestic Scheduled Part 121 operation. My comment was not intended for any other segment of the aviation spectrum and I thought I was pretty specific about that. See?

 

[AvroJockey]

There's not many things Europe does better than the US, but this is one of them. EU-Ops duty and flight time limits are way superior to the FAA's.

Your duty/flight time for the day depends on two things: 1. What time of the day/night you started, 2. How many legs you're doing that day. The range, if I remember correctly is 9-14 hours of duty, with no "I feel fine" extensions. If you start inside a circadian low and you're doing 4 legs, you'll be on the low side of the duty limit. BTW, it's nearly impossible to do a 14hr day. I pretty sure you're limited to 2 legs if you have a 14 duty day...I never flew more than a 13hr duty day over there, and that was very rare!!! Usually 9-10 hrs of duty.

I was never tired flying over there...period.

 

[acaTerry]

18 hour duty days are VERY common here in the non sked world... Get used to it.

Could it be a factor in why the safety record is so poor in that type of flying? 2+2=4.

 

[propsarebest]

Could it be a factor in why the safety record is so poor in that type of flying? 2+2=4.

The safety record is no worse than any other airline out there, with the exception of Air Tahoma.

And considering that most of the time you are going to different places in countries you have never even heard of, I'd say the accident rate is pretty damn low. You have no idea what is gonna happen until it actually does.

Comparing a non sked to a scheduled 121 airline that flies to the same city all the time, even to the SAME gate day in and day out is apples and oranges...