New Astar contract

[erichartmann]

The opinion of Lynne Nowel is wrong and you should not rely so heavily on it. Simply put Lynne wasn’t there when the deal between DHL and ALPA was entered into and therefore she has no direct knowledge as to the intent. Out side the NLRB her theories have little value to you.

I can however completely understand your severe annoyance if you believe that ALPA is trying to take your flying. But it appears to me that ALPA is simply attempting to hold DHL to an agreement that precedes the ABE buy out. The 1224 would do nothing less if the circumstances were reversed.

Punishing the rank and file via jump seats only inflicts insult on injury to the least responsible of individuals. The Pilot work force of either group, ABX or ASTAR, have little if any direct responsibility for the current set of circumstances. Deep down I believe you know this and I urge you to reconsider your position.

Lynne Nowel is not the only attorney on staff or retained by Local 1224, nor is she the only attorney who believes the case is baseless. Ms. Nowel did not formulate the theory of the case presented to NLRB. ABX Air's management retained a law firm for that purpose. I believe it was Ford and Harrison, though I might be mistaken. Local 1224 was invited by management to participate in the case as a co-plaintiff and declined.

I would say the intent is selfevident and speaks for itself.

The rank and file are the union. While the rank and file have little direct responsibilty for the current situation (i.e. both carriers under ACMI contract to the same customer) the rank and file at Astar's ALPA appear to support the current MEC and its apparent actions regarding scope. If the MEC and the NC are pursuing a given course of action it would appear the majority of the rank and file approve. If they do not they should make an effort to change the action or the people pursuing it.

The NLRB has ruled in favor of case presented by the legal counsel of ABX Air's management, and has ordered Astar's ALPA unit to cease and desist attempting to enforce the scope. I understand the ruling is under appeal in federal court. In the meantime the original case, presented in federal court attempting to compell DHL to abide by Astar's APLA unit contract is on hold. The simple truth is that the changed business relationship vis a vis Astar and DHL has rendered a portion of your contract invalid or moot. Live with it.

 

[goastar]

The simple truth is that the changed business relationship vis a vis Astar and DHL has rendered a portion of your contract invalid or moot. Live with it.[/quote]


If it is invalid or moot, why are you so worried about it? You seem to be the all knowing, perhaps you should sit back, take your own advice, and watch us waist our money. It not going to affect you anyways, right?

As for jumpseats, you are welcome on ours anytime.

 

[erichartmann]

The simple truth is that the changed business relationship vis a vis Astar and DHL has rendered a portion of your contract invalid or moot. Live with it.

If it is invalid or moot, why are you so worried about it? You seem to be the all knowing, perhaps you should sit back, take your own advice, and watch us waist our money. It not going to affect you anyways, right?

As for jumpseats, you are welcome on ours anytime.[/quote]

I am concerned becasue you never know how a court will rule despite the opinions of various attorneys. I have conveyed the opionions of some well respected attorneys I know were consulted.

I am angry becasue I see it as a cheap and underhanded tactic to take my job away from me, one which I personally believe violates the law.

I have, up to now, had no occasion to ride your jumpseat. I don't plan to in the future.

 

[skycruizer]

"I am concerned becasue you never know how a court will rule despite the opinions of various attorneys."

With that in mind why wouldn't ALPA cover all their bases?
The way I see this DHL made a deal with ALPA. Then when their business plans changed DHL ignored the contract they signed (a lesson to anyone doing business with DHL). DHL never attempted to resolve any of ALPA’s concerns prior to the ABE purchase. This left ALPA with no choice but to litigate. How was ALPA to know what DHL’s intentions were concerning ASTAR? Would DHL transfer ASTAR’s flying to ABX? Would ASTAR be shut down? A threat btw that exists today. The forceful pursuit of what ALPA believes is "contractual" is nothing less than the same actions the IBT would have taken if the circumstances were reversed (a point btw you failed to respond to). ALPA views the case as work preservation, you view it as work acquisition I guess. Having read the briefs and decisions I can see how easily that line is blurred.

It has already been stated on this thread that DHL would love to pit one group against the other. The point has been well made so I won’t go into it any further except to say –believe it-. You are well informed as to the issues and events that are relevant to this case. I’m not going change what you believe nor should I. All I’m saying is that the ALPA members are no more to blame in this than the 1224 members are. Both groups have been wronged and both are along for the ride. And what if a merger were to take place? Any "bad blood" will come back to haunt us all in spades. I don’t commute (live local) so I’m unaffected in that sense, but this JS issue could easily become the proverbial "slippery slope".

 

[Clipperskip]

Astar ALPA and ABX pilots

Here is a question for the Astar guys here on the forum. I'm not trying to flame but we have been dancing around this question for awhile. If Astar's ALPA claims are successful in court and the Astar pilots are awarded all the current Astar and ABX flying within North America, what do you guys think should happen to ABX and its pilots? I am not asking for legal interpretation just for your honest opinion. I keep hearing from the ER ALPA guys "the teamsters would be pursuing the same legal path if the roles were reversed". I don't believe that is a valid point, it is nothing more than pure speculation that you are using to justify your legal quests.

 

[goastar]

Here is a question for the Astar guys here on the forum. I'm not trying to flame but we have been dancing around this question for awhile. If Astar's ALPA claims are successful in court and the Astar pilots are awarded all the current Astar and ABX flying within North America, what do you guys think should happen to ABX and its pilots? I am not asking for legal interpretation just for your honest opinion. I keep hearing from the ER ALPA guys "the teamsters would be pursuing the same legal path if the roles were reversed". I don't believe that is a valid point, it is nothing more than pure speculation that you are using to justify your legal quests.

:uzi: ABX :smash:

The way I see it, if we don't answer you will assume, if we do, you won't believe us, come on Clipper. This seems to be what you are hunting for, and are under the impression that we are trying to do to you. Give me a break!!! How about y'all, what would happen to astar and its pilots if the situation was reversed?
Oh wait, thats right, its not a valid question. Sorry!

Thats it for me,I'm done with this thread, good luck to us all.

 

[skycruizer]

Here is a question for the Astar guys here on the forum. I'm not trying to flame but we have been dancing around this question for awhile. If Astar's ALPA claims are successful in court and the Astar pilots are awarded all the current Astar and ABX flying within North America, what do you guys think should happen to ABX and its pilots? I am not asking for legal interpretation just for your honest opinion. I keep hearing from the ER ALPA guys "the teamsters would be pursuing the same legal path if the roles were reversed". I don't believe that is a valid point, it is nothing more than pure speculation that you are using to justify your legal quests.

I think it’s a valid point but that’s ok, I respect your opinion Clipper. Honestly (and I mean honestly) I have never really thought about that very much. All ALPA has ever asked for is that the grievance be arbitrated. And we all know what that process will produce...split of the baby. It’s not very realistic to believe an arbitrator would render a decision that in effect would kill ABX and cost DHL million$. We are most probably stuck with each other for many years. I believe there is a better possibility that Hete will look for a higher return for his stockholders and pursue other more lucrative acmi business with other customers.

Time to drink beer now, like my bro said...good luck to us all.

 

[two(2)%]

BTW:

How was that scope meeting for Astar on Thur. evening?

 

[ABX9av8or]

Both ABX and Astar should agree that jump seat abuse will not be tolerated. Even though a couple of people may not have used good judgement on the ride to work with respect to the jump seat. The jump seats in and out of ILN are very valuable. The following letter was posted on behalf of both Unions

To: All ASTAR and ABX Air Pilots
From: ASTAR MEC Chairman Earl Smith
Teamsters Local 1224 President Dan Graves

RE: Jumpseats


It has come to our attention that ASTAR and ABX Captains have considered
denying off line jumpseat pilots commuting to and from work for
political reasons or in response to rumors. Please keep in mind that
ASTAR and ABX are the only airlines in ILN. ABX and ASTAR pilots rely
on each others' jumpseats to get to and from work with as little
inconvenience as possible. Both union jumpseat coordinators are working
their best to keep an open line of communications on jumpseat issues.
Both ASTAR and ABX are going to be in ILN for a long time therefore
please keep the politics out of it and grant your fellow aviator a ride.


We both agree that off line jumpseats is a very important quality of
life issue for many pilots. Leaving someone behind for political
reasons or in response to a rumor hurts everyone.

If you should have any jumpseat difficulties, issues or concerns please
contact ASTAR Jumpseat Chair John Nolan or 1224 Jumpseat Chair Joe
Sperry.

 

[hvydriver]

2% is Rhoid.