New ALPA Message to USAirways Pilots pt 3

[TWA Dude]

Oh yes, and I believe those 3 growth 757's, actually became replacement aircraft.

Irrelevant.

 

[Fast43]

Guppie:

Not a hundred, perhaps a thousand.

A350

Exactly how can you defend that statement when 2 pilot neutrals and a Binding Arbitration Award state that AAA does not deserve that many ???????????

 

[A350]

Fast:

I don't have to defend it.....

So basically your position on the seniority integration award is that AWA pilots were put in the places they were ahead of their more senior in terms of service counterparts out East because the deserve it? What did AWA pilots do to deserve the East coast upgrades/attrition?


They brought the attrition to the table. They brought the east coast and the international operation, things that AWA would have had to pay dearly to get, if they could do it at all. Yet according to the pilot neutrals and the arbitrator, you deserve that too?

A350

 

[vetrider]

Fast:

I don't have to defend it.....

So basically your position on the seniority integration award is that AWA pilots were put in the places they were ahead of their more senior in terms of service counterparts out East because the deserve it? What did AWA pilots do to deserve the East coast upgrades/attrition?


They brought the attrition to the table. They brought the east coast and the international operation, things that AWA would have had to pay dearly to get, if they could do it at all. Yet according to the pilot neutrals and the arbitrator, you deserve that too?

A350

Nicolau answered all those questions you pose, end of story. Why don't you read it? I mean with your eyes and mind open, that is.

 

[OnTheDole]

Green:


If you think that an East pilot will sacrifice what is left of his career so other pilots will respect him afterwards, you will be sorely disappointed. As has been rehashed a dozen times already, when you have taken a 50% paycut, lost a pension, and now the only thing you have left is a few sunset years in the left seat making 40% less than you would have a few years ago and that gets taken away, there isn't much left to give a $hit about, let alone worry about gaining respect in the eyes of someone who benefits from the very thing you lost.

A350

I couldn't agree with you more, which is exactly why east captains will vote yes on an ALPA contract that provides them with a modest pay increase even though it comes with the Nic. award.

When it comes to $1500+ more per month or the FO beside them upgrading... they'll pick the $ every time

 

[Hpilot]

Nicolau answered all those questions you pose, end of story. Why don't you read it? I mean with your eyes and mind open, that is.

He can open his eyes and it won't do any good, because his head is still up his @ss.

 

[PositiveRate]

Receivership

TA

Crappy contract (158+/- top narrow rate, various concessions, but 12-15% in 401k)

Happily ever after - no fences, nicolau.

5 yrs from now, we'll either be ready to fail again or everyone will have forgotten this crap because things are so good.

In that order and with varying degrees of sarcasm.

 

[Fast43]

Fast:

Yet according to the pilot neutrals and the arbitrator, you deserve that too?

A350

Now your getting it.

If you read the award it will be even more clear to you. Maybe you should refrain from posting until you do. Its bad form to Postulate without all the facts.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Your respect is not valued, needed, or wanted.

Thank you.

Which is pretty much what I anticipated from the likes of you.

"Thank You".....


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

and we are supposed to be quaking in our boots? But don't accuse AAA pilots of stealing upgrades! All the 190's and the growth 757's that the arbitrator Dana Eischien deemed AWA pilots were entitled to 33% of, now suddenly belong to AAA pilots exclusively...A350 didn't you claim at one point that you don't have a dog in this fight? You guys are losing respect industry wide. AAA pilots, the gift that keeps on giving.....

Yeah,but I bet if you ask ol' Weasel Lips (a perfect screen name if I ever saw one) their "respect isn't valued,needed or wanted", either. Oh,well ....to each his own.


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Green:

As of Monday, I won't have a dog in this fight.....

I never said the East pilots were entitled to all the upgrades....I merely said that the East pilots are not making this stink for only a hundred upgrades, as GuppieDriver posted. I said perhaps a thousand or so would upgrade by delaying the implementation of the Nicolau award.

The fact that the AWA pilots are due positions and are not getting them is a function of the transition agreement and the joint contract, correct? The growth airplanes went on the East certificate, didn't they?

I don't think that was the intention, but is another unfortunate casualty of the holdup in a joint contract and the seniority integration. I don't blame you for not liking it, but as you always say, no West pilot is going to go East for an upgrade. If management had placed the growth airplanes on the West certificate, you would have received the growth.

If you think that an East pilot will sacrifice what is left of his career so other pilots will respect him afterwards, you will be sorely disappointed. As has been rehashed a dozen times already, when you have taken a 50% paycut, lost a pension, and now the only thing you have left is a few sunset years in the left seat making 40% less than you would have a few years ago and that gets taken away, there isn't much left to give a $hit about, let alone worry about gaining respect in the eyes of someone who benefits from the very thing you lost.

A350

You know,it's a wonder with your charming don't give a $hitz ,all about me, don't give a dam about my peers or what they think about me attitude ,that you can manage to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning with anything bordering on even the tiniest amount of dignity and self-respect.You USAir guys just never cease to amaze me.

PHXFLYR

 

[A350]

PHX:

What ceases to amaze me is how you can look in the mirror and figure you deserve what you got on the backs of those who came way before you, and then you have the nerve to say we have no dignity and self respect?

I suppose your attitude, that AWA was all that, you deserve the attrition, the widebodies, the international flying and now you want the East pilots to lay down what is left of their careers at your feet in unity so you have the leverage to finally get decent pay and working conditions speaks volumes about your dignity and self respect.

The only reason you can sit there and pontificate about your loss in terms of wages and benefits is because you have an east coast operation and the large profits that it generates. AWA, on its own, could never, ever pay you what you will make with the east coast routes. Who do you think brought that to the table?

A350

 

[Fast43]

PHX:

What ceases to amaze me is how you can look in the mirror and figure you deserve what you got on the backs of those who came way before you, and then you have the nerve to say we have no dignity and self respect?

I suppose your attitude, that AWA was all that, you deserve the attrition, the widebodies, the international flying and now you want the East pilots to lay down what is left of their careers at your feet in unity so you have the leverage to finally get decent pay and working conditions speaks volumes about your dignity and self respect.

The only reason you can sit there and pontificate about your loss in terms of wages and benefits is because you have an east coast operation and the large profits that it generates. AWA, on its own, could never, ever pay you what you will make with the east coast routes. Who do you think brought that to the table?

A350

If your talking about the large east coast operation that went to BANKRUPTCY TWICE, you can have it. Keep in mind that you brought those 2 bankruptcies to the table with you as well.

On our own we would have done fine thank you and you will never be able in 1000 years of trying, to comprehend how much we wish we still were on our own.


Since the moment the list came out there has been nothing from the AAA pilot group but foolish lawsuits, disingenuous comments to the media and obstruction to a level never seen before to the improvements in work rules, pay and peace of mind for our families. Keep in mind that 90% of these improvements will be realized by the East pilots.

Pardon us for not respecting that sort of behavior. Since things didn't end up as unfairly as you wished them to.

 

[A350]

Fast:

In case you were wondering, the 2 BK's put you in the place you are now....

While you may not like working for USAirways, you will get more than you ever would have by just working for an independant AWA.

I am sure you are up late at night worrying about your future.....wherever you ended up on the list, there are a few hundred or so East pilots providing a nice cushion for furlough to the West pilots. Is it not true that the last AWA pilot has a lot more pilots beneath him now than he ever would under your old "growth" strategy.

The East pilots are doing what they need to to protect what they think is theirs....you would do no less and while you don't like it, you should respect their right to fight for what they believe they should have received from the integration.

A350

 

[TWA Dude]

.. you should respect their right to fight for what they believe they should have received from the integration.

This is what you fail to comprehend: the East already did fight for what they wanted, in negotiation, mediation, arbitration, and the "appeal" to ALPA National. Everybody realizes the fight is over except you guys. Nobody respects your current fight because by trying to get around the rules you hurt all unions.