New ALPA Message to USAirways Pilots pt 3

[TWA Dude]

My premerger retirement number would have been under 20 at USAirways....now it is north of 850. The BK didn't do that, Nicolau did.

So you thought the merger wouldn't have any effect on your retirement number? Methinks your expectations were unrealistic and that's why the arbitrator's decision came as such a shock. I wasn't shocked by the Award. Relieved that I wasn't getting totally screwed, I was

 

[TWA Dude]

There are 2 (TWO!) issues: the seniority integration and the contract. The mistake, in my opinion, the West pilots make is in lumping them together.

Not quite. The Transition Agreement, agreed to by ALL sides, is what lumps them together. The East side is trying to rewrite the rules to suit their desires. And it isn't working.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

A350 said:
The USAPA drive is sending ALPA a message. They ignore their membership at their peril. Don't think this is the end of these mergers and the tricky notion of putting pilot seniority lists together. It is the beginning. ALPA needs to put a process together that they take responsibility for, not giving it to a third party and then acting like it isn't their fault when it goes awry.

This is the most telling of the East attitude. "Its not our fault, its ALPA." Your MEC put it in the hands of the Arbitrator. Your MEC selected him without objection. Your MEC selected your pilot neutral and his disagreement with nic centered the placement of the 300 that had returned since the merger started; he said nothing about the rest of the integration.

Your MEC brought us here. It didn't go exactly like they wanted and now they can't let it go and let all of us get on with our lives.

A350, tailwinds in your new career I hope it treats you better than USAir.

 

[A350]

TWA Dude/Grog:

My thoughts on merger seniority integration is well discussed on this board. The reason I get so fired up about ALPA is that yes, they have a process. The process is flawed because it can get to a neutral, that they now claim doesn't have to abide by ALPA merger policy. It is a way of sticking your head in the sand and hoping it goes away. It further insulates the Association from any liability should it go awry, like it has here IMO. Further, this will not be the end of the merger circus and without concrete policies, the pilots of the Association are at further risk from the same fate as the East guys.

Yes, I fully expected to lose some ground in the integration. However, I expected to still fly the A330 and end my career in the top few hundred. I didn't expect to lose the widebody forever and I certainly had an expectation of finishing my career in the ballpark of where I would normally have. Finishing 400 times higher on the list than intended isn't in the parking lot of the ballfield.

I am one of many who lost that kind of seniority. Did any of the AWA group lose that kind of seniority?

I wish you guys the best. Whether or not you know it, you won't find a better group than the East pilots. You just haven't seen their good side yet.

A350

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

350 I sincerely hope the good side shows up to negotiations and the group can move forward.

I sincerely hope the guys who negotiated the industry leading contracts will show us, a united pilot group, how to take on management and win.

When that group shows up, I will support them, I will picket, I will strike. I will do what it takes to get the career we were all expecting when we entered into this profession.

A way around the current issues will never be found until East meets West at the negotiating table.

 

[A350]

Grog:

You are right, but they won't show up until they exhaust all the means they have at their disposal to do what they believe to be right....not what you want, not what ALPA National wants, what THEY want. In the end, they may get nothing. But in their hearts, they are doing the right thing. Just because it doesn't fit someone else's definition doesn't mean it is wrong.

A350

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Just because it doesn't fit someone else's definition doesn't mean it is wrong.

At this point they're delusional not just wrong. They lost every challenge to the arbitration, EVERY ONE. And yet they still cling to the fight.

Its like those Japanese soldiers who refused to surrender after WWII. They stayed in the hills until like 1970 or something. They finally believed it was over and ended up wasting 30 years of their life.

 

[ferlo]

Several of you are talking about fences and how they'll solve everything. As I've written before, fences don't save anybody from furlough. The pain of any future furloughs should be shared. Nicolau's dovetail integration satifies this concept nicely.

That's all hind sight. AAA had their chance to negotiate and they F'd it up royally. Now, like immature high school kids, instead of fessing up and taking the blame, they go to DEFCON 10 and keep making things worse for themselves. Somebody over there better "man up" or they'll eventually be begging for the day the nic award came out.

Parker is not going to allow a multi billion dollar merger get hamstrung by a bunch of tantrum throwing pilots. He will win, they will lose. Take it to the bank. Pilots don't run airlines. Despite what ALPA and their podium pounding blowhards say, pilots don't control Sh*t at an airline.

 

[Occam's Razor]

The reason I get so fired up about ALPA is that yes, they have a process. The process is flawed because it can get to a neutral, that they now claim doesn't have to abide by ALPA merger policy.

You're kidding...right?

The rules of binding arbitration are fundamental to all Labor organizations, including ALPA. The ALPA Admin Manual lays it out very clearly.

In binding arbitration, both sides present their arguments, just as they did/would in the matter BEFORE it went to arbitration.

The AAA Merger Committee and MEC knew that before they got there. They knew what the arbitrator could, and could not, consider.

They KNEW it.

The integration issue was not the first time before an arbitrator for the MEC. To suggest they didn't know how arbitration works, and that ALPA Merger Policy contains "traps" for the well-intentioned is lame.

Further, the AAA Merger counsel (Katz) knows the rules VERY well. He represented the Republic pilots in the Northwest Orient merger...another integration that went to binding arbitration.

It is a way of sticking your head in the sand and hoping it goes away. It further insulates the Association from any liability should it go awry, like it has here IMO.

You divert your anger with the Award very well. By "well", I mean "irrationally".

 

[PCL_128]

The reason I get so fired up about ALPA is that yes, they have a process. The process is flawed because it can get to a neutral, that they now claim doesn't have to abide by ALPA merger policy. It is a way of sticking your head in the sand and hoping it goes away. It further insulates the Association from any liability should it go awry, like it has here IMO.

Liability isn't the issue. At least not the central issue. The real issue is neutrality. The Association represents both groups of pilots, so it would be improper for the National organization to have any say whatsoever in the integration, because no matter how it goes, somebody is going to feel that they weren't treated fairly. ALPA has to remain impartial. Otherwise, one group could receive an enormous windfall if they have the right political connections in Herndon.

This situation is a perfect example. Let's say that the Admin Manual provided for a policy that allows the Association at the National level to have control over the integration. In this case, the AAA MEC has a member of their pilot group in one of the four National Officers' positions. How can there be assurances that this Officer wouldn't work behind the scenes to tilt the integration in their favor? The AWA MEC doesn't have this advantage. The only way to provide for a fair process is to allow for an outside neutral that has no connection to the Association to arbitrate the matter if the two sides can't come to an agreement. The process is very well thought out. You could certainly say that there need to be some guidelines added, such as DOH or whatever else, but the process itself is sound. Removing the outside neutral and trying to settle it all in house would lead to disaster more often than not.

Why can't you guys just admit that your own MEC fu&^ed this up by allowing it to go to arbitration? This can't be said enough:

NEVER LET SENIORITY INTEGRATIONS GO TO ARBITRATION!!!!!!