New ALPA Message to USAirways Pilots pt 3

[Soulfly]

PCL said,

"Why can't you guys just admit that your own MEC fu&^ed this up by allowing it to go to arbitration? This can't be said enough"

Thats just part of it. Their argument for DOH/LOS would have stapled over 1500 AWA pilots to the bottom. And that was their intention. After years of being screwed by their management, they were looking for a little retrabution. Ahh, AmericaWest pilots, Perfect.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Thats just part of it. Their argument for DOH/LOS would have stapled over 1500 AWA pilots to the bottom. And that was their intention. After years of being screwed by their management, they were looking for a little retrabution. Ahh, AmericaWest pilots, Perfect.

Not so fast. I quaffed with many AAA pilots during this whole process. I never got the impression that their goal was to "screw" anybody...least of all, AWA pilots. My take is they HAVE been screwed by unscrupulous dorks over the past few years, and chose this issue to "dig in their heels". They clung to a parochial perspective that didn't consider the chance that an arbitrator wouldn't see things their way.

I think it was misguided. Negotiate an integration and you control at least 50% of the outcome. Send it to arbitration and you control 0%!

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Yep....

 

[Soulfly]

Occam, I don't disagree with your last point.

I never said the AAA Pilots were attempting to screw the AWA pilots. Re-read my post, I never said that.
I know they have been bent over, hard. I flew with quite a few of these guys J4J. Heard it first hand, never lived it, never walked a day in their shoes.

Although based on their LOS position, which was their position. They wanted to put furloughed pilots in front of current captains at AWA. The lawsuits that have been filed against our MEC Chairman are unbelievable. He didn't issue the decision.

Peace....

 

[Occam's Razor]

I never said the AAA Pilots were attempting to screw the AWA pilots. Re-read my post, I never said that.

Hmmm.

Here's what you posted:

"After years of being screwed by their management, they were looking for a little retrabution. Ahh, AmericaWest pilots, Perfect."

It kinda read like that to me.

My bad, I guess.

 

[TWA Dude]

The process is flawed because it can get to a neutral,

In addition to what others have stated, I'll simply add that a)you state that it's a flawed process yet you don't suggest any other less flawed way to do it and b)nobody complained about the process being flawed before Nicolau went off to make his decision. Nobody complained about Nic being too old and senile either.

...that they now claim doesn't have to abide by ALPA merger policy.

Nicolau clearly stated that he felt he was following Policy and the Executive Council (effectively, a jury of our peers) found no impropriety. Do you really think any judge will disagree with an arbitrator? Why is the AAA MEC still pursuing that dead-end?

I am one of many who lost that kind of seniority. Did any of the AWA group lose that kind of seniority?

Nicolau cleary explained his interpretation of "career expectations" and ruled accordingly.

I wish you guys the best. Whether or not you know it, you won't find a better group than the East pilots. You just haven't seen their good side yet.

When I flew for Chautauqua I held the USAir guys in the highest esteem. I continue to believe that pilots at different airlines are all basically the same. Sometimes the radicals are in control, sometimes the moderates are. I wish you the best as well.

 

[A350]

TWA Dude:

What I mean when I say ALPA policy is flawed, is the fact it contains nebulous wording in its policy...wording that cannot possibly be nailed down with any certainty. Now you have Prater running around saying the arbitrator doesn't have to follow ALPA merger policy. I call BS on that one. How can he run around saying that, when the expectation of all involved was that policy was followed. My version of how mergers should go together has been well talked about on these threads. I believe DOS or years of service is the only way. Someday, you may feel that way when you are merging with a younger pilot group.

Soulfly, being stapled to the bottom of a list isn't the end of the world....if fences are put in place to protect what you bring to the table. No East pilot had any intention of bumping anyone out of their seat. That is just crew room fuel for the fire. If the proper fences would have been put in place, whether the list turned out DOH, DOS, or the current list, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Occam: Katz? They guy they gave $1 mil for helping the U pilots negotiate their first BK offering? You're kidding, right?

A350

 

[Fast43]

TWA:

I can't promise there won't be a furlough....but I can guarantee that the airline won't survive a furlough that gets to an AWA pilot the way the seniority integration went.

I am over it as I will no longer be on the list. Most of the reason for not returning is the seniority integration. I lost more than I can ever regain by returning.

The East pilots, by delaying the joint contract and hoping for USAPA are only doing one thing....delaying the seniority itegration. Every East pilot that upgrades is a success story in keeping the attrition where it belongs. It is in effect, a fence.

The USAPA drive is sending ALPA a message. They ignore their membership at their peril. Don't think this is the end of these mergers and the tricky notion of putting pilot seniority lists together. It is the beginning. ALPA needs to put a process together that they take responsibility for, not giving it to a third party and then acting like it isn't their fault when it goes awry.

A350

Good luck to the Employer that hired you!!!

Thankfully we will be better off without you!!

 

[Fast43]

TWA Dude:

My premerger retirement number would have been under 20 at USAirways....now it is north of 850. The BK didn't do that, Nicolau did.

A350

This is where you guys start departing controlled flight.

If you weren't in BK there would not have been a merger. So you have to ask yourself "how did we end up in BK??"

Could it be stubborn, irrational, unreasonable union leadership???

Gotta wonder!!

 

[Fast43]

Not so fast. I quaffed with many AAA pilots during this whole process. I never got the impression that their goal was to "screw" anybody...least of all, AWA pilots. My take is they HAVE been screwed by unscrupulous dorks over the past few years, and chose this issue to "dig in their heels". They clung to a parochial perspective that didn't consider the chance that an arbitrator wouldn't see things their way.

I think it was misguided. Negotiate an integration and you control at least 50% of the outcome. Send it to arbitration and you control 0%!

Must be the "new math" but I would think that narrow minded determination that insisted on a list that resulted in 1500 AWA guys ( that had jobs with one of the merging carriers ) being stapled to the bottom (even below furloughed pilots), does nothing but reveal a purposefull intention to further AAA careers at the expense of AWA careers.

To say nothing of the fact that after the Arbitrator told AAA merger committee that DOH was DOA and they insisted on DOH anyway.

What ever happened to the AAA guys before the merger is not the AWA guys responsibility to fix at our expense.