NetJets Strike Vote Fails

[FamilyGuy]

Accounting review? Hmmmm. Profit is just an opinion and I bet that management's opinion is a bit skewed... Troll, get ready because the strike is coming and it's time to pay the pilots what they are worth - a lot more than the patheticly low pay they are currently earning.

Perhaps you wouldn't mind being paid 60% of what your corporate counterpart is earning? Noooo - you would never protest.... Get ready, the strike is coming with a vengence.

Fractional and Corporate are two different worlds. If you want corporate pay go there....

The important point is that the current proposal makes NJA pilots the highest in the fractional industry

 

[Hogprint]

FG said:

The important point is that the current proposal makes NJA pilots the highest in the fractional industry

That will last a day. Flt Optns will better it the day it comes out. They had a plan in place for the failed TA if it would have been accepted. Any FOps folks care to weigh in on this?

 

[El Chupacabra]

Fractional and Corporate are two different worlds. If you want corporate pay go there....

The important point is that the current proposal makes NJA pilots the highest in the fractional industry

THIS IS A LIE. NJI or NJE would be paid higher. Also Fractional should be paid higher than Corporate.

 

[rice]

THIS IS A LIE. NJI or NJE would be paid higher. Also Fractional should be paid higher than Corporate.

El Chup,

Not trying to fan the flames here at all but would you mind explaining why Frac types should be paid more than Corp types? Just curious to see your side of the fence.

 

[gunfyter]

Why not? Same reason Familyguy thinks I should get less.

 

[El Chupacabra]

El Chup,

Not trying to fan the flames here at all but would you mind explaining why Frac types should be paid more than Corp types? Just curious to see your side of the fence.

The company knows why we should be paid more. We have presented our correction factors to the NBAA salary figures.

But we also need to make the Prophecy of our founder come true, "Some day this will be the best job in aviation."

 

[Geronimo4497]

No offesnse, but since when does money make anything better?


You can't take it with you, so it should be all about QOL...............

 

[rice]

The company knows why we should be paid more. We have presented our correction factors to the NBAA salary figures.

But we also need to make the Prophecy of our founder come true, "Some day this will be the best job in aviation."

Agreed it would/will be nice if the prophecy comes true for you guys.
But you still didn't answer the question, WHY should Frac guys get paid more/better than Corp guys. I'm not saying you shouldn't, but I would be interested in hearing the rationale behind it. We each have our respective good and bad sides of working in the same industry and I'm just curious as to why you or the group as a whole feel Frac guys should be paid at a higher rate.
Again not a flame starter, just trying to see it from your perspective.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Agreed it would/will be nice if the prophecy comes true for you guys.
But you still didn't answer the question, WHY should Frac guys get paid more/better than Corp guys. I'm not saying you shouldn't, but I would be interested in hearing the rationale behind it. We each have our respective good and bad sides of working in the same industry and I'm just curious as to why you or the group as a whole feel Frac guys should be paid at a higher rate.
Again not a flame starter, just trying to see it from your perspective.

One way to look at it is that its like I am working for more than one set of owners, flying more trips and more flight hours. Two 100 hr months for example.

The fractional company get more utilization out of each airplane and each crewmember.

Here is why.

If a corporate one airplane flight dept of 3 pilots flies 400 hours on that airframe for the ONE owner.

And

Each Fractional airplane flys 800 hours and is crewed by 5 pilots for several owners. (the airplane will and crews will fly significantly more than 800 hours because there is dead head hours between trips but lets just count occupied hours).

each Corporate pilot would be flying approx 266 hours in support of the owner.

each fractional pilot would be flying 320 hours in support of owners (plus reposition hours).

This is about 20% more crew utilization.

The fractional should be able to pay more because of this. They only need 10 pilots and only 2 airplanes to do the work that would require 12 pilots and 4 airplanes in Four 3 man one airplane flight departments.

20% fewer pilots required and the big money saver... only half the airplanes.

 

[rice]

The fractional company get more utilization out of each airplane and each crewmember.
True but utilization varies wildly between NBAA member companies and so does compensation. I know of many companies where the crew flies less than NBAA avg hrs yet they make in excess of NBAA avg pay.
Here is why.

If a corporate one airplane flight dept of 3 pilots flies 400 hours on that airframe for the ONE owner.
Not all one airplane flight dept.s only service one owner. Many have partnerships of two and three owners. BTW I have flown for a 2 plane 11 pilot dept. averaging over 2100 hrs/yr for the past 5 yrs.
And

Each Fractional airplane flys 800 hours and is crewed by 5 pilots for several owners. (the airplane will and crews will fly significantly more than 800 hours because there is dead head hours between trips but lets just count occupied hours).

each Corporate pilot would be flying approx 266 hours in support of the owner.

each fractional pilot would be flying 320 hours in support of owners (plus reposition hours).

This is about 20% more crew utilization.
Only 5 pilots???? How can that be true with the 7/7 sked + training + vacation + sick time + travel on days 1 and 7 etc. Seems like all that cuts into the utilization rate or requires more than 5 pilots. I also can be called 24/7 for 22+ days out of each month, just so happens the company only utilizes me about 14 but a day of standby is still a day of work, just ask a NJA Citation X guy sitting in a service center during his rotation.

The fractional should be able to pay more because of this. They only need 10 pilots and only 2 airplanes to do the work that would require 12 pilots and 4 airplanes in Four 3 man one airplane flight departments.

20% fewer pilots required and the big money saver... only half the airplanes.

Again i hope you guys get what your after but I still don't think you're really comparing apples to apples on this one.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Again i hope you guys get what your after but I still don't think you're really comparing apples to apples on this one.

thats OK.

We did not ask for more... only the same. A measily $115K year 5.

 

[On Your Six]

Fractional and Corporate are two different worlds. If you want corporate pay go there....

The important point is that the current proposal makes NJA pilots the highest in the fractional industry

That's a BS remark if I have ever heard one. Fractional pilots arguably work harder than their corporate counterparts and yet are paid far less for the same aircraft type. If all fractional pilots are underpaid, then what's the use of being the highest paid in that group if you are still undervalued and underpaid? It's time to pay up...

If you want sub-standard pilots who can't interact with the all-important owners, then continue down this path... You get what you pay for.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Six,

What you call BS ... they call it bargaining in good faith.

But this is what the sales brochures say...

NetJets Pilots: The best in the Skies.

NetJets Pilots: The most important part of the Netjets program.


​

We never rest on our laurels.

 

[surveypilot]

That's a BS remark if I have ever heard one. Fractional pilots arguably work harder than their corporate counterparts and yet are paid far less for the same aircraft type.

Unfortunately, you are missing what drives pay scales. The difficulty of the job has very little to do with it. If that were true, the highest paid pilot in the country would be a CFI. I have never worked as long or as hard as I did when I was flight instructing full time.

The economics of corporate pilot pay are different than almost every other type of pilot job. Whether it be airlines or fractional or part 135 etc., these companies make money by selling your pilot services as part of the package. What they pay you directly affects the bottom line. The salary of most corporate pilots however, has at best an indirect effect on the bottom line. Therefore, it is much easier to justify higher salaries for pure corporate pilots. Corporate pilots are able to be paid for their skills and are very rarely the most expensive part of doing business for the companies they work for.

I understand that fractional ownership does allow for ownership of an aircraft, and that benefits the aircraft owner, but the reality is, from a company perspective, that you are always going to be treated salary wise like a charter pilot. I know that is tough to swallow, but it is true.

 

[El Chupacabra]

That's why Unions were invented.