NetJets Strike Passes By 93%

[FamilyGuy]

Family Guy

Whether you like it or not, you did accept a job with a company that had a union long before you came on the property. Maybe you were hired to bust the union, you have failed miserably.

I don't like the fact hat we have a union. I think the last union MEC botched the job completely and that you have cost the company millions in angry owners that won't renew. The reason I say this is because you literally screwed yourselves out of an opportunity by low-balling the last T/A. By doing this you've had worker discontent and angry owners waiting around for contract maintenance to change a cabin light bulb in broad daylight, you've had fatigue calls within 15 mins of a revenue flight and you've had guys that went for years without using sick time using nearly all of it.

Quite frankly, there's only one thing worse than a poorly organised union and that is bad management that can't measure the barometer of the workforce.

For crying out loud, GET 'R DONE!!!

Your basking in the failures of unions past or present while Rome is burning is doing nothing for the security of this company, NOR YOUR OWN JOB SECURITY!

I'm not a union guy, I'm not a family guy, I'm a pragmatist. You're all at fault, and you're all a bunch of idiots!

Well said Hawkered. I couldnt agree more with you. I dont intend to bask in the failures of unions past or present. Its just that I've been in unions before and have come to realize that they dont solve anything. Sorry if the frustration with union dogma comes across too strongly.

I dont know why this contract has taken so long. It is a crime that it took over three years before a TA was presented to the pilot group. I think both sides are to blame for that and they both better wake up and get this thing done and behind us.

Ultimately we are in a service business and the damage we are currently doing to the business will take YEARS to repair, if it can even be fixed.

 

[Ultra Grump]

FamilyGuy:

You can moan all you want about unions in general, but the fact is that the pilots' union at NetJets isn't going anywhere.

I'll answer one of your questions, since I don't have time to get to all of them:

Look at the auto industry - one of the largest manufacturing industries out there. Unions have been wholly unsuccessful in unionizing the transplant facilities that have been built in the US by Honda, Toyota, and others. Why?

Precisely because the workforces at GM, Chrysler, and Ford are unionized. In order to prevent a union drive at their facilities, the Japanese- and Korean- owned factories must at least match what the unionized force is getting. If the UAW went away, I'm sure people would be happy for a while, but soon the wages would start to shrink, the benefits would start to disappear, and quality would begin to suffer from newly-demoralized workers. Then guess what would happen? Union drives. As much as you'd like to see unions go away, unfortunately for you, they're here to stay.

As has been pointed out, aviation is probably the most-unionized industry in the country. Sure, there are non-unionized workforces (ala Skywest), but their wages and workrules are directly derived from other, similar unionized contracts, in an effort to keep a union off-property.

If you think that non-union shops are so great, you might want to take a look at what's happening over at FlOps.

 

[Diesel]

Well hawkered you came here knowing it was a union shop too.

Keep extending at the expense of the pilot force.

 

[Hawkered]

Diesel

Look at the difference between the responses that I just reeceived from yourself and Family Guy, and lets just take a quick look at the differences.

At least Family Guy has prefaced his arguments with humility in so far as he has acknowledged the time delay on both sides has cost us some of our reputation and, yes a bunch of money too.

Diesel, the next time you get called in for The Bridgeway One Arrival, you will no doubt seek union representation to ensure due process. In the meantime you have offered me no due process...

How do you know if I'm divorced and being cleaned out, or that my wife has an illness that leaves me on the verge of bankruptcy paying deductibles, or that my child has just lost her first job and has a over $50k in college loans.

You have afforded me no "due process".

Family Guy

I haven't given up on you yet, and I haven't given up on the union...yet. I will not put up with self proclaimed experts on message boards telling me how and when to fly an aircraft!!

Family Guy, the worst thing you can do right now is start burying your head in the sand and believing everything is gonna be alright, when it simply ain't. You guys are driving this company off the edge of a cliff with your anti-union dogma. The pilots are angry, the aircraft are "broken", the schedulers don't listen to anyone, the owners are leaving, owner services is lying and nobody in management is doing a damn thing to make it better!!

 

[Diesel]

We all got problems.

I mean really go pick up a second job or do contract work. There are a lot of pilots that have problems and i have to give them credit they go on and find other jobs.

If you need to extend to make sure that you pay for medical bills or something like that it's fine with me. You have to do for your family first. This is just a job nothing more. Extending a bunch of times for some bs reason ain't going to cut it. You're just dragging this deal out longer and longer.

The difference between me and familyguy is that i have control over this situation. I have a vote. He's either some numnut up in managment or a poster the company hired. Either way his opinion doesn't mean sh!t. He can't vote and his audience on this board is .00005 percent.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Diesel

Look at the difference between the responses that I just reeceived from yourself and Family Guy, and lets just take a quick look at the differences.

At least Family Guy has prefaced his arguments with humility in so far as he has acknowledged the time delay on both sides has cost us some of our reputation and, yes a bunch of money too.

Diesel, the next time you get called in for The Bridgeway One Arrival, you will no doubt seek union representation to ensure due process. In the meantime you have offered me no due process...

How do you know if I'm divorced and being cleaned out, or that my wife has an illness that leaves me on the verge of bankruptcy paying deductibles, or that my child has just lost her first job and has a over $50k in college loans.

You have afforded me no "due process".

Family Guy

I haven't given up on you yet, and I haven't given up on the union...yet. I will not put up with self proclaimed experts on message boards telling me how and when to fly an aircraft!!

Family Guy, the worst thing you can do right now is start burying your head in the sand and believing everything is gonna be alright, when it simply ain't. You guys are driving this company off the edge of a cliff with your anti-union dogma. The pilots are angry, the aircraft are "broken", the schedulers don't listen to anyone, the owners are leaving, owner services is lying and nobody in management is doing a dang thing to make it better!!

Hawkered - good point. Answering union dogma with anti-union dogma isnt going to bridge the differences between the two groups. I apologize if I've added to the problems instead of trying to help solve them. I just get tired of reading a one-sided company bashfest, particularly when I work for that company and know that most of the allegations are baseless. I personally would like to see this board become a more productive forum to air some of the problems being experienced by both sides and explore ways of solving them instead of just bitching at each other. I also know that the radicals on either side of a dispute rarely win, and when they do it is never a good thing. The solution to this impasse is probably the same as in most disputes - the moderates on both sides will need to come together and forge a compromise that both sides can live with. I just hope its sooner rather than later.

You should know from my previous posts that I support the pilots in negotiating a fair wage and benefits package. I respect the skills of our pilot group - by and large most of them are truly some of the best that I have worked with.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Best reason to turn down the trip: I can't go because I haven't had a passport for 2 1/2

Got a better one you could use for all trips if you're on the Falcon ($%#@, I should have put in that last bid) Tell them you don't have an Emergency Checklist other than the manufacturer's original in the AFM. Ain't bad for someone like me; but I read FRENCH

 

[Hogprint]

Famguy posted:

If the unions cant deliver any advantages over non-union shops then its just natural that the employees will question the wisdom of giving some of their hard earned dollars to the union.

Our union has delivered on most things, just not pay. The other frax best us only on pay, and it's just a couple of grand more a year.

Don't forget NJ was the frax industry for a long time. They set the bar low, and the other frax have only had to match or slightly better the deal.

Just ask a FOp's or Flex guy about their work rules compared to ours that the union was instrumental in negotiating.

The other frax may be questioning their wisdom of staying non union, especially if we get an industry leading contract.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. Don't even know why you would even try to pass this argument off to people who know better. My pay (non-bargaining employee) more than doubled in less than 6 years with the company - all at the company's choosing.

During the same time frame your union hasn't been able to negotiate any pay raises for it's bargaining employees. The company even tried to raise FO pay outside of negotiations but the union was against it. Again, your union is the problem, not the solution.

Respectfully,

Go back to the page my original post is on with my quote that you detest so.

There you will see a subtitle under which the comments fall. It is called "MACRO" or larger view. Not "MICRO" or your view.

I was commenting on jobs in America on average, per capita.

In the 50's and 60's the middle class flourished and grew by a thousand %. Today that is not the case. Unions drove the bar up for wage and benefits. Today there is less of that force in the marketplace to even maintain the bar (or the job at all). As a result I believe we are seeing several sectors of employment experience less pay and less benefits because we "have to compete with the world". The middle class is on the decline.

As for your job... you too are underpaid. I know several airline dispatchers that, even today, make FAR above that which you make. And they are responsible for less flights and have better equipment to plan with.

 

[FLYLOW22]

You're not just beating a dead horse here, you're digging it out of the grave and wacking at the bones now.

Hmmm. A "Boisturism".

Worth ain't worth that much.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Why do you perceive the verbal communication from the chief pilots as threats and coercion but your "friendly little chats" with pilots who want to work overtime is just talking?

Because we can't fire each other dillhole. Quid pro quo's, intimidation, "counsling"; these are all events that have been demonstrated by management (CP or other) over the years. This is what happens when one party has the power to fire the other.

Pilots are peers. We levy our opinions upon each other but at the end of the day it is a Democracy we live here on the labor side.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Cant comment since you are not in Manufacturing? Then why did you bring it up as an example when you tried to defend your lame argument?

Umm... Well... I was talking about aviation when you brought up manufacturing and cars. My points centered around aviation employees when you introduced another sector of industry NOT RELATED TO NETJETS. My references made to other industies as a whole (as compared to aviation) were not directed towards the automobile industry as a specific example. The comments were pertaining to the broad spectrum of ALL U.S. Jobs; Manufacturing, Service, etc.... not specifics. You and Dispatcher need to learn the difference between Micro and Macro.

US based or Foreign Based is irrelevant. The point is that Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Hyundai all operate auto manufacturing plants right here on American soil, employing American citizens. The unions, which have a stranglehold on the Big 3 US manufacturers have been wholly unsuccessful in converting any of these transplant auto factories.

Again. I don't profess to know anything about the automobile industry. I speak aviation. Aviation employees remain the HIGHEST Unionized group of workers in the country.

Again, either the unions have a compelling message or they do not. The facts clearly show that unions are in decline and have been fading to oblivion for 60 years!

In general, yes. True. Not relevant though.

In aviation... No. Sorry, you can't build a case for that.

As for aviation, yes, currently a majority of employees are unionized. But its just a matter of time before that changes. Read the news and check out the other sections of this board. There's widespread discontent with the union's inability to stop the erosion of wages, benefits, scope, and other advantages that unions have claimed in the past.

Well, let me see.

Let's look at a list of airlines (off the top of my head) that are considered at least 2nd generation airlines that have employees who have Unionized.

USA 3000 (Apple Vacations prodigy)
Republic (spinoff of Chatauqua)
MidAtlantic Airways (New division of US Airways)
Southwest (the original and the only)
NetJets (who are these guys? )
Freedom Airlines (Union busting attempt by MESA and cOrnstien).

How many airline employee groups have decertified their Union representation... ever?

ZERO, which is exactly how many words get spoken to Moisture by NJA pilots during his weelky profta speech.

Airline management and employees go through periods of bargaining trends. There are times of employee give back trends (now and the early 90's) and there are times of labor gains (1999-2000). It is cyclical.

Labor groups continue to raise the bar and muster bargaining paower from other peer employee groups in the industry (in good times). Likewise, management teams lower the bar according the accomplishments of other management teams in times of give backs.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Hawkered - good point. Answering union dogma with anti-union dogma isnt going to bridge the differences between the two groups. I apologize...

Someone is fishing.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Cant comment since you are not in Manufacturing? Then why did you bring it up as an example when you tried to defend your lame argument?

Umm... Well... I was talking about aviation when you brought up manufacturing and cars. My points centered around aviation employees when you introduced another sector of industry NOT RELATED TO NETJETS. My references made to other industies as a whole (as compared to aviation) were not directed towards the automobile industry as a specific example. The comments were pertaining to the broad spectrum of ALL U.S. Jobs; Manufacturing, Service, etc.... not specifics. You and Dispatcher need to learn the difference between Micro and Macro.

WRONG. You should go back and check the timeline....its all there in black and white. You introduced Manufacturing as a topic on page 11 post #162. At least get the facts straight.

Again. I don't profess to know anything about the automobile industry. I speak aviation. Aviation employees remain the HIGHEST Unionized group of workers in the country.

WRONG AGAIN. Actually teachers are the highest unionized group of workers in the country. Aviation does have a high percentage of workers who are unionized though. The entire transportation industry is around 25%. You can get more data on the Bureau of Labor Statistics site here:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm


You are correct that no aviation unions have been decertified so far. I havent claimed that the unions have decreased in aviation, only that there is a high level of discontent in the aviation union community at the inability of the union to stop the erosion of pay, benefits, etc. It was simply a prediction on my part that if this trend continues that workers will grow dissatisfied and lead them to question why they are paying dues.

As for the commentary on saying zero words to Boisture, that's simply your loss. Not too many people get an opportunity to talk to Mr. Boisture, and I dont think I would squander the opportunity. What is the purpose in saying nothing? To express displeasure? I think everyone knows you're not happy.

 

[FamilyGuy]

FamilyGuy:

I'll answer one of your questions, since I don't have time to get to all of them:

Precisely because the workforces at GM, Chrysler, and Ford are unionized. In order to prevent a union drive at their facilities, the Japanese- and Korean- owned factories must at least match what the unionized force is getting.

Actually its fairly common for non-unionized workers in an industry to get LESS pay and FEWER benefits than unionized workers. Here's a quote from a recent article in the New York Times on transplant auto factories in the south:

Union jobs at the Big Three plants pay a dollar or two more an hour - about $26 an hour compared with $24 or $25 an hour for the nonunion jobs at the foreign plants. But compensation at the American automakers swells to an average of $55 an hour when health care, cost of living and other benefits are counted, compared with $48 an hour, on average, at Toyota.

You can find the entire article here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/22/automobiles/22auto.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/22/automobiles/22auto.html?ex=1122782400&en=21ff7119b8ed9755&ei=5070

If the UAW went away, I'm sure people would be happy for a while, but soon the wages would start to shrink, the benefits would start to disappear, and quality would begin to suffer from newly-demoralized workers. Then guess what would happen? Union drives. As much as you'd like to see unions go away, unfortunately for you, they're here to stay.

The irony is that several studies have found that non-union workers are happier and more satisfied with their jobs than their union counterparts, even though they get less pay and fewer benefits.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Famguy posted:



Our union has delivered on most things, just not pay. The other frax best us only on pay, and it's just a couple of grand more a year.

Don't forget NJ was the frax industry for a long time. They set the bar low, and the other frax have only had to match or slightly better the deal.

Just ask a FOp's or Flex guy about their work rules compared to ours that the union was instrumental in negotiating.

The other frax may be questioning their wisdom of staying non union, especially if we get an industry leading contract.

Hogprint - I'm getting a conflicting message here. You state that the union delivered the best work rules and operating conditions of any of the frax operators and are just a couple thousand below them in pay. It sounds like the union did a good job historically outside of the pay issue - so why the intense dissatisfaction?

 

[FamilyGuy]

You're not just beating a dead horse here, you're digging it out of the grave and wacking at the bones now.

Hmmm. A "Boisturism".

Worth ain't worth that much.

No, I dont think he's old enough to get credit for that phrase...

"flog (or beat) a dead horse. Though he supported the measure, British politician and orator John Bright thought the Reform Bill of 1867, which called for more democratic representation, would never be passed by Parliament. Trying to rouse Parliament from its apathy on the issue, he said in a speech, would be like trying to 'flog a dead horse' to make it pull a load. This is the first recorded use of the expression, which is still common for 'trying to revive interest in an apparently hopeless issue.' Bright's silver tongue is also responsible for 'England is the mother of Parliament,' and 'Force is not a remedy,' among other memorable quotations. He was wrong about the Reform Bill of 1867, however. Parliament 'carried' it, as the British say." From the "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997.)

 

[Ultra Grump]

No, I dont think he's old enough to get credit for that phrase...

"flog (or beat) a dead horse. Though he supported the measure, British politician and orator John Bright thought the Reform Bill of 1867, which called for more democratic representation, would never be passed by Parliament. Trying to rouse Parliament from its apathy on the issue, he said in a speech, would be like trying to 'flog a dead horse' to make it pull a load. This is the first recorded use of the expression, which is still common for 'trying to revive interest in an apparently hopeless issue.' Bright's silver tongue is also responsible for 'England is the mother of Parliament,' and 'Force is not a remedy,' among other memorable quotations. He was wrong about the Reform Bill of 1867, however. Parliament 'carried' it, as the British say." From the "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997.)

Hey Clavin, aren't you needed back at Cheers?

 

[Some Dude]

I think all of you guys need to get LAID. Tempers are high..... I suggest one of you try getting laid by a woman, then you can be on the top or the bottom.

 

[Hawkered]

Family Guy

I actually like your intellectual arguments and I feel that you're very sincere in your convictions, but you're straying...again.

Are you really interested whether my baby can afford a new pair of shoes, or do you want to just, "do the right thing" for a bunch of fat cats.

I received a very long and well delivered page today on my company pager and really, I thought it was well written and showed us the gravity of the situation. The fact that you know that its happening is a relief to many of us. Some of us thought you genuinely didn't care!

American Airlines had one of the worlds hardest leaders, but he was loved..and hated at the same time. Robert Crandall fought for the dominance of the silver bird in Washington, and with route structure, ETOPS economics and even sports advertising. If you would ask any American pilot that remembered life under him, they'd probably give some reference to their own anatomy as personal sacrifice to have him back, just to recapture those wonder years.

Netjets doesn't have leadership right now that shows that kind of conviction. They seem to clock in and clock out, and not really even care. Let me explain:- You've been working a problem at a remote airport in Montana all day long with maintenance control, it's the third plane you've been on for the tour that's broken down, passengers are coming in an hour. The MEL covers the problem and both crew members agree that it's safe to take the 'plane. You call an Assistant Chief Pilot and tell him you're good to go. He doesn't know anything about the problem, doesn't understood the MEL and hasn't even been briefed by the arm chair warrior that just left his air-conditioned confines.

Sure: it takes years to get a good customer and seconds to lose one, but how do we go back to the passengers who are waiting to go to a charity function in New York and continue to smile?!

You get what you pay for!! You have to pay a pilot that can show up for work and know that his wife has a car with a working set of brakes and an engine that won't let go. You have to pay a pilot that can afford the insurance deductibles for life's unfortunate events that take us by surprise. You have to pay a pilot so that s/he can afford a retirement outside of the government sponsered ponzi scheme called Social Security and you have to grow the team with all the fan fare of the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders at the closing moments of a fourth quarter tie-breaking field goal!!!

Thats what leadership is!! It's not "telling", it's not lecturing, it's not coming up with great new ideas...it's about treating people the way you would like to be treated and not taking personal offence to peoples' personality quirks, or even their own unique beliefs. It's about tolerance, patience, the ability to make an example of others through the actions of oneself, and the ability to practice one's craft better than most, at the same time, remaining humble!!

God knows..I fail at this myself, but you are being paid to be great Family Guy, and for that money, we all expect greatness.

What good is it coming up with "financials" when we are being charged 50 bucks for a quart of oil in Westchester? Or seeing orders for our aircraft running off to Europe? How can you equate the cost of a sell-off, when the majority of those are to our sister company EJM?

If I carry a wallet and I change the pocket from one side of my butt-cheeks to the other, have I just cost myself its contents, or did I just double my fortunes? Thats how stupid it looks when we show up to White Plains!!

Family Guy, have the strength of your own convictions to be honest and fair in your dealings. Do not be sideswiped by corporate immorality or tongue twisted into arguments with people that piss you off on these forums.

Just Git 'R Done!

Time will heal...if its not too late!!

 

[FLYLOW22]

WRONG. You should go back and check the timeline....its all there in black and white. You introduced Manufacturing as a topic on page 11 post #162. At least get the facts straight.

(sigh) I mentioned manufacturing an a broad context. Not a specific example. There is a difference. If you don't get it then I am sorry that I don't have the time to teach you the english language today.

WRONG AGAIN. Actually teachers are the highest unionized group of workers in the country. Aviation does have a high percentage of workers who are unionized though. The entire transportation industry is around 25%. You can get more data on the Bureau of Labor Statistics site here:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

Entire Transportation industry.... bus drivers, Taxi drivers, railroad employees, etc. The transport industry is pretty large.

Aviation Employees do not make up the entire transport industry. Please stop skewing the facts. It makes you look retarded online.

As for the commentary on saying zero words to Boisture, that's simply your loss. Not too many people get an opportunity to talk to Mr. Boisture, and I dont think I would squander the opportunity. What is the purpose in saying nothing? To express displeasure? I think everyone knows you're not happy.

Boisture is a windbag who acts like a cheap Stephan Wolf knock off that is hardly as versed in dealing with SERVICE, even less skilled at dealing with Unions and has no concept of Self Discipline.

NetJets has a President who throws a temper tantrum when he doesn't get his way... and it's funny.

Could you help him find his golden parachute. The pilots will show him the door. We'll call it even.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Originally Posted by FamilyGuy

WRONG AGAIN. Actually teachers are the highest unionized group of workers in the country. Aviation does have a high percentage of workers who are unionized though. The entire transportation industry is around 25%. You can get more data on the Bureau of Labor Statistics site here:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm



​

Teachers yes but teachers are not part of the private sector.



For the most part Public sector can not compare directly to private sector in that public sector is not as subject to globalization and immigration effects on employment and so forth.

 

[Hawkered]

Guys..let it go. This is not about union busting or getting the boss fired!

Show me the money!!

"Git 'R Done!"

 

[brewerdog]

funny thing I heard, a new truck driver can get $65,000/yr but how long does it take a pilot to make that . . .

 

[CMHTroll]

Wow

funny thing I heard, a new truck driver can get $65,000/yr but how long does it take a pilot to make that . . .

I believe that includes thier Own Rig, pay their Own Fuel etc. And after expenses the make about $30,000. Check your Freightliner dealer and he can give you more information. Or ask Diesel, he loves trucks!

 

[FAcFriend]

funny thing I heard, a new truck driver can get $65,000/yr but how long does it take a pilot to make that . . .

another option is to go be a truck driver. Are you implying that you think you should be paid as a truck driver is paid? I detect a note of sarcasm in your post that sounds quite snobbish- you sir, know nothing about truck drivers.

 

[Semore Butts]

Why would I waste my time talking to B.B.???

Family, have you seen the DVD that BB sent out to the pilots? I wish you could if you haven't.

BB tries to talk to us like he's grandpa and he just caught his grandchild stealing a cookie.

(Bad Johhny, you don't need more money son, Grandpa knows whats best for you, your kids are better working at a factory or fast food place anyway, they don't deserve to go to college. Vacations are a pain anyway, if you can't afford to go on one it will be better anyway)

Not much of a way to talk to a group that flies multi million dollar clients in multi million dollar aircraft all over the planet.

When I saw the , video I was just north of Bagdad, and had just been through a mortar attack. My point is, we been a round a time or 2. I know the difference between Chicken salad and Chicken sh&t.

BB explained in his "business 101" class the "Y" factor being the available amount of money the company could pay the pilots. He explained that the target profit was not being reached and therefore the company could not pay us more. Well, as I understand it from the business 101 that I took, salary is part of business cost, not profits.

So, I'm not buyin it, and I don't think by brethren is either.

BB is a politician, so is magee. You look at them and say bullsh*t, they ignore you and continue with their bs as if it is gospel.

That is why we say nothing (my opinion). What point would it serve. They are getting paid by what they can take from the mouthes of our families.

Well there it is as far as I'm concerned.

If it wasn't so truly degrading, it would have probably been funny.

 

[FLYLOW22]

funny thing I heard, a new truck driver can get $65,000/yr but how long does it take a pilot to make that . . .

Here? 7 years.

 

[flyfysh]

Family, have you seen the DVD that BB sent out to the pilots? I wish you could if you haven't.

BB tries to talk to us like he's grandpa and he just caught his grandchild stealing a cookie.

(Bad Johhny, you don't need more money son, Grandpa knows whats best for you, your kids are better working at a factory or fast food place anyway, they don't deserve to go to college. Vacations are a pain anyway, if you can't afford to go on one it will be better anyway)

Not much of a way to talk to a group that flies multi million dollar clients in multi million dollar aircraft all over the planet.

When I saw the , video I was just north of Bagdad, and had just been through a mortar attack. My point is, we been a round a time or 2. I know the difference between Chicken salad and Chicken sh&t.

BB explained in his "business 101" class the "Y" factor being the available amount of money the company could pay the pilots. He explained that the target profit was not being reached and therefore the company could not pay us more. Well, as I understand it from the business 101 that I took, salary is part of business cost, not profits.

So, I'm not buyin it, and I don't think by brethren is either.

BB is a politician, so is magee. You look at them and say bullsh*t, they ignore you and continue with their bs as if it is gospel.

That is why we say nothing (my opinion). What point would it serve. They are getting paid by what they can take from the mouthes of our families.

Well there it is as far as I'm concerned.

If it wasn't so truly degrading, it would have probably been funny.

Do you honestly think these guys that you name go to work looking forward to making your day harder? Give me a break, reading these posts, you seem to be able to do that all on your own. They were hired to run this company, safely and efficiently while still being good stewards of our owners money (remember...the people that allow us to receive a paycheck??)
You are unfortunately making this negotiation between the company and the union/pilots more about the who than the what. They are people with families...employees...just like you and I with a job to do. Period. We can sit here and be 1 of 4k employees and remain anonymous with our bad a$$ threats while they have no choice but to be thrown in the fire with no anonymity and figure out how to make this thing work for all involved. I for one, give them credit for that because if it were me, I would not have subjected myself to this abuse past day one.
How would you like it if they got on this board and defamed you as blatantly as you do them?Treat others as you would like to be treated. Didn't your Mother ever tell you that if you don't have anything nice to say...don't say anything at all...

 

[Some Dude]

If I was paid 1.5 million a year like Mr. Moisture then I would say flame away. He is only here for another year. How many management teams have we had? How many has Southwest had? Hmmmm.....I wonder if Old Herb would like to run this place as well as he did at Southwest. Maybe we can talk him into coming here to NJA.