NetJets Strike Deadline??

[El Chupacabra]

The proposal sucks.

6 on 4 off is DOA. We will not accept that schedule.

The pay is too low. Way too low not even close.

And finally the back pay... Forget it.

But even if all that was right. There must be SCOPE.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Class huh? You are just the model child for class.
Excuse me while I bow down to thee.
I spouted no "silly little union-think"
I put the profession in the blue-collar realm?

You worked with attorneys? Being invovled in a law suit doesn't constitute "working" with them.
You worked with physicians? Having your head surgically removed from you ass doesn't constitute "working" with them.

Management gets the upper hand because they are management.
Like atty's and dr.'s, I am white collar and a professional at work, but like some of those atty's and dr's, you bet your ass I'm blue collar when I'm off work and at home. I worked hard physical labor to help pay my way through college. Keep drinking your 100LL.

Oh, by the way, both my attorney and my doctor told me to tell you to go to hell. They bet 100 bucks each that I could kick your ass.

And now you compensate for your feelings of inadequacy by threatening me over the interenet?

What a sorry little man you are.
By the way, I talked to your management and they said that by this time next year you would be working for peanuts.

You really shouldn't get into intellectual debates with the severely limited resources available to you. When you feel threatened and cornered, you lash out like a wounded animal.

You display the classic signs of fear and confusion.
I won this debate, friend, and it is your use of adolescent comebacks as a substitute for logic that has proven that.

Thanks!

You are one of many who are responsible for diminishing this profession through your inability to reason and penchant for invective as a substitute for thought.

Enjoy your diminishing status.

 

[FAcFriend]

$76,161 for a fifth year Hawker 800 Captain is crap. I now understand exactly why the union has reached an impasse with these a$$holes.

Isnt it more than you make today?

This contract is a short term document. It is not meant to last the rest of your career. Sometimes I think the union believes it is bigger deal than it is.

It is a 36 month contract. Take the cash and find a better job.

 

[smartnetjetwife]

seems like the union is trying to hit a home run with these contract talks. swinging from your heels leads to more stikeouts then homeruns (....you know, like the last 3 years).

SMARTERnjawife

 

[transpac]

Isnt it more than you make today?

This contract is a short term document. It is not meant to last the rest of your career. Sometimes I think the union believes it is bigger deal than it is.

It is a 36 month contract. Take the cash and find a better job.

No telling how long that "36 month" contract will last. One thing for sure, it won't be replaced in three years. The existing 36 month contract is almost seven years old and likely has a few more years left.

 

[Otter]

Dont shoot the messenger, but isnt the NBAA salary survey for for a Medium Jet PIC (20K-35K MTOW) median pay (50%) 76,096?

I believe the 90th (90%) number was 95,750, that includes everything from, I would assume, a "new" guy to a very senior (well past 5 years) PIC.

I know the pay is not industry setting, but if I understand the current pay, and the proposed going from 10th percentile to 50th seems to be a solid leap. Certainly worth evaluation.

Granted I am a 91 type, non-frac, no dog in the fight, not NJA so not my business..... but since it is a public board, I figured I would just ask the question, not meant to be a flame, but I will stand back from the fireplace just in case.

.....be gentle......

 

[Hogprint]

seems like the union is trying to hit a home run with these contract talks. swinging from your heels leads to more stikeouts then homeruns (....you know, like the last 3 years).

SMARTERnjawife

You got that right sister girl! I've long said we need to hit a homer with this contract or this company will hose us till the cows come home!

The blame for the last three years can be spread over the old MEC AND especially the company...don't forget their foot dragging and taking advantage of 9/11 like they did.

Agreed if they had ratified this in 01, our earning power (even with a small raise) would have been beneficial. That is water over the dam or under the bridge....

We have nothing to lose at this point.

 

[FamilyGuy]

You got that right sister girl! I've long said we need to hit a homer with this contract or this company will hose us till the cows come home!

The blame for the last three years can be spread over the old MEC AND especially the company...don't forget their foot dragging and taking advantage of 9/11 like they did.

Agreed if they had ratified this in 01, our earning power (even with a small raise) would have been beneficial. That is water over the dam or under the bridge....

We have nothing to lose at this point.

Hogprint - how did the company drag its feet and take advantage of 9/11? I dont recall the company wanting to spend countless months revisiting every article in the contract - that was at the union's request.

I stand by my earlier contention that the union didnt want to reach an agreement in 2002-2003....the economy was terrible and they knew they had ZERO bargaining power.

So dont lay the blame for the past three years at the companys feet. I've yet to see anyone put forth a compelling argument against this point.

 

[FamilyGuy]

seems like the union is trying to hit a home run with these contract talks. swinging from your heels leads to more stikeouts then homeruns (....you know, like the last 3 years).

SMARTERnjawife

Good point Smarter.

If you'll think about it the new union leadership has backed themselves into a corner on this one. They've vilified the previous leadership so much that anything less than a home run will look like they failed.

After all, they've repeated the previous leaderships mistake and promised kick ass pay for their constituents, raising everyone's expectations in the process.

The shame of it all is that they have what looks to be a very good proposal sitting on the table in front of them, but are afraid to take it for fear that it doesnt measure up to their 'promises'.

It always amazes me how foolishly people act when dollars are involved. The money they stand to lose while they are in 'the deep freeze' will probably outweigh any additional dollars they could hope to gain by pushing this further.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Originally Posted by Starman
$76,161 for a fifth year Hawker 800 Captain is crap. I now understand exactly why the union has reached an impasse with these a$$holes.

Isnt it more than you make today?

This contract is a short term document. It is not meant to last the rest of your career. Sometimes I think the union believes it is bigger deal than it is.

It is a 36 month contract. Take the cash and find a better job.

$76,161 vs current salary of $60,984. That's a 25% increase!

If thats truly the dollars being discussed, then what's up with the union's picketing posters demanding a 'livable wage'?

Maybe the company should put out posters asking what the union's definition of a livable wage is, when $76,161 doesn't meet that criteria....

 

[ce750drvr]

And now you compensate for your feelings of inadequacy by threatening me over the interenet?

What a sorry little man you are.
By the way, I talked to your management and they said that by this time next year you would be working for peanuts.

You really shouldn't get into intellectual debates with the severely limited resources available to you. When you feel threatened and cornered, you lash out like a wounded animal.

You display the classic signs of fear and confusion.
I won this debate, friend, and it is your use of adolescent comebacks as a substitute for logic that has proven that.

Thanks!

You are one of many who are responsible for diminishing this profession through your inability to reason and penchant for invective as a substitute for thought.

Enjoy your diminishing status.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh my god that was hilarious. I wasn't debating FRIEND. I was stating facts. You continue your little diatribe. I showed my atty your post. He laughed harder than I did. So again I ask, "Who the fuk are you? Dikhed."

 

[ghostrider64]

Why don't we end this thread by having everyone put down exactly what they make a year so we can have an open an honest discussion of what we are all worth....Come on dispatchers etc....Lay your cards down....And while you are at it lets start asking what all the managers make...Including the el presidente'

Management must have missed the two things my grandfather never discussed publically...How much he made and who he voted for....

 

[ghostrider64]

Otter the biggest flaw in the offer was that those at the bottom of the seniority list will never make the same $'s at the same number of years with the company as do the most senior....Within every year of service the payscale has 6 or 7 subscales based entirely on where your seniority number lies...

Example 5yr pay for the top 5% of the list may make $85 and the bottom 5% who are at year 2 today when they do make it to year 5 will only make $70k These arent exact figures they are examples of how the scales were distorted...

So instead of an a and b scale we have an a,b,c,d,e and f scale offered....

 

[Hogprint]

Hogprint - how did the company drag its feet and take advantage of 9/11? I dont recall the company wanting to spend countless months revisiting every article in the contract - that was at the union's request.
I've already posted the answer to this on one of the previous gargantuan threads, (and I think it was a reply to you) so you'll just have to go find it and this time reread it...SLOWLY....

I stand by my earlier contention that the union didnt want to reach an agreement in 2002-2003....the economy was terrible and they knew they had ZERO bargaining power.
And I've already agreed with you on this, but it doesn't change the fact that the company did not want to move any faster either. They stood as much to gain by dragging this out.

So dont lay the blame for the past three years at the companys feet. I've yet to see anyone put forth a compelling argument against this point.

And oh yes I'll lay the blame right on the company doorstep on this one...supply and demand. Is that compelling enough for you? Probably not.

 

[Hogprint]

Good point Smarter.

If you'll think about it the new union leadership has backed themselves into a corner on this one. They've vilified the previous leadership so much that anything less than a home run will look like they failed.
OK Famguy...I'm going to start calling you Bridgeway Bob here....
You are spreading disinformation here so I'll clear a few things up.

Link any info you have that shows this current MEC vilifying the previous leadership. Lets see it. If you can produce one thing I'll eat crow.

After all, they've repeated the previous leaderships mistake and promised kick ass pay for their constituents, raising everyone's expectations in the process.

This is a lie....lets repeat. This is a baldfaced lie.
This MEC has never promised Kick A pay. What they did do that the former MEC never did, was take a survey and actually find out what the PILOTS WANT!!!!!! What a concept!?

The shame of it all is that they have what looks to be a very good proposal sitting on the table in front of them, but are afraid to take it for fear that it doesnt measure up to their 'promises'.

Mr. Moisture could not have said this better himself!

It always amazes me how foolishly people act when dollars are involved. The money they stand to lose while they are in 'the deep freeze' will probably outweigh any additional dollars they could hope to gain by pushing this further.

As I told the sistergirl....we have nothing to lose.