NetJets Strike Deadline??

[x402]

So now you are doing PR for the old MEC. Quit worrying, your job is safe, BB says so. Don't worry about the pilots.

 

[FamilyGuy]

So now you are doing PR for the old MEC. Quit worrying, your job is safe, BB says so. Don't worry about the pilots.

No PR. I could care less who you choose for the MEC, they dont represent me.

Its just a legitimate question...what will you do if you find out that everyone was wrong and the old MEC wasnt lying about the books?

Has anyone even considered the possibility that maybe they werent lying?

 

[x402]

Better yet, when they get the report from the independent auditor and find that their old MEC wasn't lying to them what will they do? They've ostracized and vilified the old MEC, their own pilot brothers, claiming they were lying and working for the company......

Why do you care about the old MEC? Why do you care about auditors?

I smell a rat.

Again, NO LAY OFFS IF WE STRIKE.

Still don't have that warm fuzzy about BB, do you?

We really don't care what 'you' think upstairs, at least until you sign our checks.

PS I don't think the old MEC lied, I think they were out maned and they finally gave in to preasure from 284 and the company. Lies, no, overmatched and a lot arrogant. Too bad if they feel the results of what they brought members after three years.

 

[Starman]

This is the type of information posted that gives an outsider the impression that NetJet pilots are either ignorant or delusional. Why else would any group of individuals continue to operate in a manner contrary to their own economic self interest?

If the pilots can find work elsewhere, it must be at a relative discount in terms of earnings. Otherwise, why would they continue, year after year to work for substandard wages, with a poor quality of life for a group of managers they consider to be unethical?

I believe the reality is there are few if any options of equal value for the majority of the NetJet pilots. Would a NetJet pilot (not a wife) be willing to explain how they rationalize the continuation of their own economic degradation?

Traderd,

Most of the pilots here believe that the eventual result of the contract will be rewarding enough to have gone through the process. Unfortunately for the company, an increasing number of pilots ARE leaving for other opportunities as the company has become more childish in its behavior. Add that to the fact that their ability to recruit pilots is almost zero and you get to the point where we're facing a shortfall of 500 pilots. That number is growing.

Because of the actions of our union and the fact that most of us are now at year 4 seniority or higher, we're better prepared both mentally and economically to weather an abeyance or recess. The company through its own choices is bleeding money on sell-offs and other inefficiencies built into the old CBA. Eventually that bleeding will drive them to offer a reasonable contract.

 

[Semore Butts]

Yes professor

OK, I'll bite.

I don't have the pretty english that you have, I can only tell you why I did it.

I came from Flexjet where there was no real indication of which way the company was going. They are still doing fine as far as I know. I recently returned from a military tour in Iraq, so I haven't talked to any of my Flex buddies.

I believed that there would be more security in a union shop. I believe when the contract is finally completed that it will have been the right decision for me.

I can tell you there are alot of great people flying for Netjets for whatever reason.

You basically said that (I am not qouting you) that Netjets pilots have a certain attitude. You also said that you are not a Netjets pilot or employee (also not a quote).

It's like talking to people about Iraq. If you weren't there, you just wouldn't get it.

No matter what I said, or how long I talked or typed about Netjets, and being a pilot there, you just wouldn't get it.

I would like to have some other job options but now I'm "on the block" for an extended trip to Afghanistan.

Wether you understand that or not doesn't matter.

You really write well, but I don't think I would want to be trapped in a cockpit with you for any extended period of time.

I'm sure we can get along without you,

Your opinion is welcomed, I can say that because I've payed for your right to have it.

It does bother me that someone that presents themselves as very educated would comment as an expert on an organization they really know nothing about.

Respectfully, "If ya aint in it, ya won't get it".

 

[Traderd]

Traderd,

Most of the pilots here believe that the eventual result of the contract will be rewarding enough to have gone through the process. Unfortunately for the company, an increasing number of pilots ARE leaving for other opportunities as the company has become more childish in its behavior. Add that to the fact that their ability to recruit pilots is almost zero and you get to the point where we're facing a shortfall of 500 pilots. That number is growing.

Because of the actions of our union and the fact that most of us are now at year 4 seniority or higher, we're better prepared both mentally and economically to weather an abeyance or recess. The company through its own choices is bleeding money on sell-offs and other inefficiencies built into the old CBA. Eventually that bleeding will drive them to offer a reasonable contract.

Thanks for the reply. I understand the idea then is one delayed gratification. The only problem I see with this idea involves the time value of money.

Every day that you continue at the current compensation rates, there is a need to increase the rates to be paid in the newly negotiated contract to cover the loss due to inflation and interest on future cash flows. I would assume the negotiators are aware of this and are calulating future pay rates accordingly. It looks like there is the proverbial hole that has been dug and the ability to recover even the opportunity costs gets more remote with each passing day. I guess this would be your gamble.

You also perpetuate the notion that the comapany will waste money in an attempt to bust the union. I would agree that a corporation will spend money in a manner that is designed to maximize its return over some time frame, even if it appears less cost effective at the time of expenditure. This may explain the high number of sell offs you claim. If however, this yields a lower labor cost over a pre-defined period of time that can be shown to reoup a return sufficient to offset the aforementioned time cost of money then it is what management should do, whether or not it busts the union. I guess this would be the company's gamble.

I would place my money on the company's gamble. I believe you have worked at a pay level low enough to negate your ability to recoup what you would have realized by taking advantage of the other opportunities you indicate are out there for th current crop of NetJet pilots. And every day you continue at NetJets, the more remote that possibility becomes, while every day you perform for the current compensation, the more likely the company will realize a positive result from the dealy in paying more for your labor.

My recommendation concerning this approach would be don't take it. If a better opportunity is out there for a NetJet pilot, take it now (benefits included of course). Every day you delay is a day you will realize less of a gain when concessions are gained from the company. If you don't care what I might recommend, get in contact with a reputable financial planner who will be able to crunch some numbers and show you in black and white what the cost of waiting will be in your particular case.

If other opportunities do not actually exist, than disregard.

 

[suen1843]

Since it appears the NMB has put you in recess (sort of) what do you guys think the new deadline will be?

 

[ghostrider64]

No changes to contract for several more years...we have what we have and thats the end of it...Come here educated and informed and live with what we have or don't come at all...

 

[Starman]

or don't come at all...

Best advice given on this board in months.

 

[El Chupacabra]

I do not think the company can afford to go through the Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday rush under the current CBA. There are a couple of holidays coming before this that will give a forecast...

 

[G4dude]

Only the ones with a Union. That is, only NetJets Aviation Inc. We have been Teamsters for over 20 years - more unified than ever right now. Makes the union at ComAir look like a joke.

Union for 20 years, and the lowest paid Fractional pilots as well as the most unhappy. Sounds like the union has been a RESOUNDING SUCCESS! The situation is rich in irony. By the way, I see a lockout coming. But I have been wrong before.

 

[CE750Driver]

Union for 20 years, and the lowest paid Fractional pilots as well as the most unhappy. Sounds like the union has been a RESOUNDING SUCCESS! The situation is rich in irony. By the way, I see a lockout coming. But I have been wrong before.

God please, dont be wrong!

 

[niteflyr]

The same RLA that prevents us from striking also prevents the company from locking us out, so looks like we all need to get used to the current CBA for a long time now...Guess it could be worse, we could be working under the rejected TA.

 

[JetProp]

.....

 

[Mach92]

Union for 20 years, and the lowest paid Fractional pilots as well as the most unhappy. Sounds like the union has been a RESOUNDING SUCCESS! The situation is rich in irony. By the way, I see a lockout coming. But I have been wrong before.

OH so we should not be union and get a raise?? NutJets management would get 500TT pilots going to Hawaii if they could for $16,000 a year. Being union or not union has no factor here pal sorry to tell you. NutJets is ONE F up'd company period.

Yes were unhappy you know why?? Because we are fighting for ALL pilots including you to make a decent living. Last time I checked nobody cares that a surgen makes 300K or more. What about my 30 yr old lawyer friend who made oh 350K last year. What NutJets pays is not only slave labor its down right wrong. Management would like nothing more to win this fight, so all pilots can get paid McDonalds wages.

 

[100LL... Again!]

You cannot compare pilots to surgeons or lawyers, no matter how badly you want to.

Can you drop 20k and go from zero-time to CFI in 6 months? Yes.
Can you get a couple thousand hours in a couple of years just flying around? Yes.

Can you accomplish a degree in medecine or law with anywhere near the same low level of effort compared to flying? No.

I know a lot of pilots, lawyers and doctors, and pilots are just not in that league.

Failure to admit this only makes pilots look like fools.

 

[ce750drvr]

You cannot compare pilots to surgeons or lawyers, no matter how badly you want to.

Can you drop 20k and go from zero-time to CFI in 6 months? Yes.
Can you get a couple thousand hours in a couple of years just flying around? Yes.

Can you accomplish a degree in medecine or law with anywhere near the same low level of effort compared to flying? No.

I know a lot of pilots, lawyers and doctors, and you pilots are just not in that league.

Failure to admit this only makes pilots look like fools.

AND WHO THE FUK ARE YOU??? WHUTA DIKHED

 

[100LL... Again!]

I've never met a doctor or lawyer who would respond in such a puerile fashion, so thanks for proving my point.

It is foolish to keep comparing pilots to these professions - it makes us look stupid.

Here's a little question for you:

Why don't doctors and lawyers need strong union contracts to get that level of compensation?

Answer: They don't need unions.The skill and knowledge levels are so high in those fields that there is less competition, hence higher pay.

Pilots are in much greater supply, and the skill and knowledge level needed can be achieved sooner that for those other professions, hence you are paid less.

The fact that you would LIKE to think of yourself as a doctor or lawyer does not mean that the comparison is valid.

If you were worth 200k, you would be getting 200k, and you would not need a union to get it. The doctor doesn't.

Checkmate.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

You cannot compare pilots to surgeons or lawyers, no matter how badly you want to.

Can you drop 20k and go from zero-time to CFI in 6 months? Yes.
Can you get a couple thousand hours in a couple of years just flying around? Yes.

Can you accomplish a degree in medecine or law with anywhere near the same low level of effort compared to flying? No.

I know a lot of pilots, lawyers and doctors, and pilots are just not in that league.

Failure to admit this only makes pilots look like fools.

Anyone who had read any one of my previous posts knows that I'm not at all sympathetic to the pro-union movement, but this is one of the dumbest responses to a dumb post I've seen in a long time.

To say pilots aren't in the same league as doctors is just plain stupid, and just as stupid as saying that pilots deserve to "make as much as a (insert other occupation here), because (insert reasoning here)."

Most pilots are made up of the same "stuff" as doctors and lawyers, and could have been either. For the most part, highly intelligent. Pilots are paid what pilots make for one reason and one reason only...they made the choice to be a pilot. If they had wanted to be paid as much as a doctor (or as much as a Columbus bus driver, for that matter), then that's what they should have chosen to become.

 

[El Chupacabra]

G4,

No Strike or Lockout will occur in 2005. I only wish there could.

We must live by the current CBA... but so must management. I hope they like selloffs.