NetJets Strike Deadline??

[dukeofdub]

Example 5yr pay for the top 5% of the list may make $85 and the bottom 5% who are at year 2 today when they do make it to year 5 will only make $70k These arent exact figures they are examples of how the scales were distorted...

Ghost rider, you are correct here. But i believe it is the same today- not all 5 year capt make the same amount. All based on seniority- this is no surprise.

 

[smartnetjetwife]

hogprint - don't call me sistergirl or whatever that was.

you aren't going to hit a "homerun" on this contract. there are too many egos and posturing involved on both sides for anyone to completely cave in.
at the end of this whole thing, we may or may not get more than the original TA...but for people to say it was insulting and they couldn't live on it are riduculous statements. if they are so insulted by their current wage, then leave...and obviously they haven't starved to death, i would remember reading in the papers if a pilot had passed out at the controls due to malnutrition (flamebait).

There are too many pilots at NJA for mgt to give an industry tops contract, just won't happen.

If mgt was really smart though, 5 years ago they SHOULD have given everything the pilots wanted. reason being, happy employees do a better job. i personally know how much you can save a company when you want to, and how much more you can put it to them if you just don't care. easily, eeeeasily you can save 1000 a week if you care enough to figure out the best altitude, where to get fuel, gpu start where it is free (batteries = $), and many many other things. but an unhappy or disgruntled employee will end up costing the company many many times more money (compared to wage increase) by not making the extra effort here and there.

SMARTERnjawife

 

[Elevator 2]

SMARTERnjawife

boy, some one must've had a lot of fun coming up with that username. good grief, what am I to do? hussle up and secure my SMARTERfamilyguy username? no wait, I know! how about SMARTERfrmr5F!kers or SMARTERBrdgwyBob. though i must say, SMARTERHapE2BFshnInTheSwmps has a nice ring to it as well.

 

[Hogprint]

hogprint - don't call me sistergirl or whatever that was.

you aren't going to hit a "homerun" on this contract. there are too many egos and posturing involved on both sides for anyone to completely cave in.
at the end of this whole thing, we may or may not get more than the original TA...but for people to say it was insulting and they couldn't live on it are riduculous statements. if they are so insulted by their current wage, then leave...and obviously they haven't starved to death, i would remember reading in the papers if a pilot had passed out at the controls due to malnutrition (flamebait).

There are too many pilots at NJA for mgt to give an industry tops contract, just won't happen.

If mgt was really smart though, 5 years ago they SHOULD have given everything the pilots wanted. reason being, happy employees do a better job. i personally know how much you can save a company when you want to, and how much more you can put it to them if you just don't care. easily, eeeeasily you can save 1000 a week if you care enough to figure out the best altitude, where to get fuel, gpu start where it is free (batteries = $), and many many other things. but an unhappy or disgruntled employee will end up costing the company many many times more money (compared to wage increase) by not making the extra effort here and there.

SMARTERnjawife

Wow Smartynjawife....that was quite a diatribe!

Where do I start? Thanks for the support maybe?

OK, maybe home run is too big a metaphor for you. Lets say we try triple!? Will that be ok? It's better than the bunt that was offered.

Who has said the offer would "starve" them to death. No one that I've seen on this board. We just don't like it. Most people will continue to vote no until they do like it. It really is as simple as that.

Now you say your a pilot, but you seem to be a little fuzzy on how we do business in the frac industry. We as the pilots do not decide where to get fuel, gpu, batteries, oil the list goes on. That is managements baby.

WE the PILOTS have tried to tell mang, that fuel is cheaper across the field, gpu are free over there and on and on....guess what....they don't care. That is managements cross to bear.

Do not lay this at the feet of the pilots/employees. It is misguided at best, and shows total lack of understanding at worst.


I do humbly apologize for the sister girl comment...did not mean to offend.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Originally Posted by FamilyGuy
If you'll think about it the new union leadership has backed themselves into a corner on this one. They've vilified the previous leadership so much that anything less than a home run will look like they failed.

OK Famguy...I'm going to start calling you Bridgeway Bob here....
You are spreading disinformation here so I'll clear a few things up.

Link any info you have that shows this current MEC vilifying the previous leadership. Lets see it. If you can produce one thing I'll eat crow.As I told the sistergirl....we have nothing to lose.

I'd love to Hogprint, but I couldnt even tell you the real names or screennames of your new MEC. If you want to divulge that information, or better yet, give me access to the private union website, I'm sure I could find some defamatory statements by them.

However, since we all know by now that "My Union Speaks for Me", I must assume that all of the derogatory language that I've seen from the current union supporters on this website are indicative of the party line. Here's a sampling of what I've learned of everyone's feelings of the previous union leaders:

Those 5 a$$holes who are currently our MEC. They are the threat.

The 1 a$$hole gets a 737 type rating during negotiations?????

The attorney has no aviation experience except the BBJ LOU and this pos contract.

Another a$$hole admitted in one of the road shows they screwed up on the seniority and merger language.

The list goes on and on.

NJA COULD be a good place to work provided these 5 a$$holes and local 284 were not negotiating our contract and our future.

StrongUnion is the name of our new panel of representatives that will be replacing the current MEC, who have so badly tarnished the title, that it has become a disparaging term.

This TA was the slap in the face that woke us up from our apathetic stupor. We had been sleeping walking for 3 years, blindly following the spineless MEC that sold us out.

Though why in the world the MEC fell for it is beyond me. Incompetence and selfishness, goes a long way toward explaining it though. You CANNOT compare, or base a time frame on what the losing team did. No one knows what will happen when we vote this rag down by a HUGE margin and go back to the table in a position of strength, with the backing of a strong union.

dukeofdub you are a f***ing IDIOT ! A WEAK WHINEY LOSER !

Wait...I'm right, YOU ARE ACTUALLY ONE OF OUR MEC MEMBERS AND YOU SUCK !!!!!

What will gain if we vote this TA down? Where do I start?

1. self respect
2. ability to look in the mirror
3. a much better deal with Strongunion.
4. a MEC that will help the company see things our (and your) way.

The MEC has been telling the pilots for a year that "Kick-Ass" pay was going to be theirs....industry leading contract...great scope clause, improved work rules, etc. Their own union leaders sold them out---more frustration, there. ALL of the wives are upset

#2--MEC M onstrously E gotistical C on-artists! DUMP THEM

Well, the MEC has a very convincing slide show that they are going on the road with. Many of the fence sitters and "scaredy cats" could be swayed to vote YES. HOWEVER, there are others who will heavily question these guys at these road shows and call BULL**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED ** on this traitorous MEC...

NumberCruncher (Shamtulli)...your ignorance flows like diahrea from my ass. I think we have found SHAMtulli's screen name here on the board LOLOLOL.

Just for kicks you DOLT, name ONE pilot group that EVER received less after a contract was voted down...you CAN'T because it has NEVER happened ! Idiot !

And if this isn't RICHY, it's surely one our MEC "boys."

Oh, THAT letter. Even this spineless MEC saw to it that that letter went into the trash and they not try to force it on us again.

We also had no idea that the current MEC would prove to be so thoroughly incompetent and out of touch. Think "sold down the river".

Had the pilots had decent leadership, we'd be celebrating a win/win contract now instead of fighting against the MEC that was totally incompetent and spineless.

Signing on with Netjets wasn't the wrong thing to do...believing in the MEC was.

Three f'ing years was spent being strung along by those buffoons and we are, frankly, PISSED OFF.

The pilots are in the process of walking away (voting down) the insulting (flawed in all areas, not just pay)TA that the inept MEC had the gall to present to the pilots.

There is also a great irony in the proximity of Halloween and the "tricks" that have been played on the pilots as they await their "treat"--our new AND TRUE MEC, StrongUnion--a panel of real leaders backed by many volunteers and an active, vocal membership.

My husband flies the Excel and is a part of the StrongUnion organization which has put forward a slate for the MEC election.

a MEC that is in bed with the company and if not then, they at least are providing turn down service!

There are few of us that don't need the money but there are at least 82% with enough sense to know this MEC turned stupid over time and bought into the companies bs

It's a textbook example of divide and divide some more. If our crap mec had some nuts they would have filed a single carrier status but that's another story for another page

NJI is not currently union. The primary reason that has been allowed to continue is because of the ineptitude of Local 284 and 5 guys that are no longer in control of our pilot group.

hahhaaaa See you fat loser powell. Haaaaaaaaa

Powell, Price, Wentz, the business agents and former MEC members have seen fit that NetJets pilots would never be taken seriously. From greivances to negotiations nothing has been taken care of.

Our last MEC was terrible. Even worse, they misled us about their progress until the day they were finally voted out.

I also think the old Local (remember that a majority of its members are non-aviation) convinced our old milk-toast MEC that they should not pursue this.

I'm no Teamster fan but IBT did not have any blame for the last 4 years of torture we've endured at NetJets. Our pain was directly attributable to Harold Powell, the recently retired (probably in lieu of termination) president of our soon to be former local and the 5 sellout pilots that we unfortunately elected as our MEC for the past 2 terms. Shame on us for not recognizing the problem earlier.

Once we got our former local and our 5 lame-azz MEC members out of the way we have seen a remarkable change for the better.

The vast majority of the problems caused in our union were driven by the Teamsters 284 cronyism and the lack of leadership in the MEC.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Originally Posted by FamilyGuy
Hogprint - how did the company drag its feet and take advantage of 9/11? I dont recall the company wanting to spend countless months revisiting every article in the contract - that was at the union's request.
I've already posted the answer to this on one of the previous gargantuan threads, (and I think it was a reply to you) so you'll just have to go find it and this time reread it...SLOWLY....

I stand by my earlier contention that the union didnt want to reach an agreement in 2002-2003....the economy was terrible and they knew they had ZERO bargaining power.
And I've already agreed with you on this, but it doesn't change the fact that the company did not want to move any faster either. They stood as much to gain by dragging this out.

So dont lay the blame for the past three years at the companys feet. I've yet to see anyone put forth a compelling argument against this point.
And oh yes I'll lay the blame right on the company doorstep on this one...supply and demand. Is that compelling enough for you? Probably not.

Hogprint - my point is that BOTH sides are EQUALLY to blame for any delay in getting this done. That's why I took exception to your post that you lay the blame "especially on the company".

Both sides stood to gain from the delay and they both took advantage of it.

Other than that, it appears we are in agreement.

 

[ultrarunner]

This comment:

"...However, since we all know by now that "My Union Speaks for Me...."

Is, IMO why Netjets Pilots will like fail in their attempts with management.

You take a huge risk in letting Teamsters speak for you. Teamsters, IMO, have only their best interests in mind, your new leadership not withstanding...

I would have thought the better effort would have been to de-certify the Teamsters and started your own Netjets Pilots Union. Then you'll have a chance. Maybe.

You won't beat Warren Buffet. You just won't.

 

[Hogprint]

Famguy

I will start by telling you that the MEC member/s that I know that posted here have voluntarily exempted themselves from this forum due to conflict of interest. Us salt of the earth are free to carry the water!

I bet you'd like access to the web site! There are enough moles on that site already. You should be well up to speed on anything that is happening. The company sure reacts within an hour of some posts there!

I too wish the dialogue wasn't so contentious. Some of your cited posts are WAY over the top. It looks bad on the surface, but unless you go back and read all the posts over (something I don't have the time to do) and put them in CONTEXT, then you can't just throw an abject statement up and use it as gospel. It did not go unnoticed that you went back almost a year for some of your examples. Some right in the middle of the first TA release when everything was coming to a head and tensions were at their highest. Can you blame a brother for spouting off after waiting three years for that?

I do know the handles/post names of our MEC and with the exceptiton of Griz (and his response wasn't out of line) not one of your examples was one of their posts. No offense to some of our more vocal brethren, but they have a tad more class.

I'm still waiting for your response to spreading disinformation on this forum. I guess I could start posting some of the companys spin on here, but you have even covered that.

 

[Diesel]

Hey i stand by all my posts. 100 percent. Sometimes the discussion here shows me a new light like the 135 guys flying our trips. Yet I stand by my posts 100 percent. I'll admit when i'm wrong.

You copy cut and paste all day long and shape it into your view. I don't really care.

I feel like hoo hoo Howie, "I just don't care."

 

[Hogprint]

I guess I should have been more specific when I asked FG to post CURRENT MEC posts. From here or more specifically anything that folks in the Death Star would have been privy to.

He won't be able to produce anything. There is nothing to produce.

This is the third time (two by me and once by a lurker) that he has been called out. All three times he has dodged the question.

Back up your assertions with some specific facts. If he can find anything it will be news to me.

 

[ghostrider64]

Ghost rider, you are correct here. But i believe it is the same today- not all 5 year capt make the same amount. All based on seniority- this is no surprise.

Actually everyine makes the same regardless of seniority...Now seperate scales unless you look at the boeing scale...

Still waiting for all of the aviation experts to tell us what they make an hour while sitting at home....Guess I knew they wouldn't respond immediately...probably had to ask the big cheese how to respond

 

[Just Peachy]

YOu wont beat Warren Buffet...

Well then, we will take this company down with us........ and the customers will go on to other fracs and their own aircraft...

 

[netjetwife]

I have no problem standing by my posted opinions of the previous MEC. That said, my opinions were based on my own observations and conversations with them at one of the infamous Road Shows. The current MEC has advocated respectful treatment for all union members, fellow employees and owners/px.

Furthermore, I assigned partial blame for the situation to the apathy of the pilots during the term of the last MEC. That condition certainly no longer exists among the pilots and their families. The group is very well informed (a failing of the last MEC) and unified in their goals for a fair/good contract. I have been pleased by what we have seen from StrongUnion; they have delivered on all of their "campaign promises". That opinion is shared by the vast majority, even some of those pilots that didn't vote for them, have now become SU supporters.

 

[PGIRL]

Why do you guys need to strike? You break enough planes everyday just to p*ss people off here at NJ that you don't need to strike. I for one am sick of it. Just fly your freaking plane and shut up.

 

[netjetwife]

Pilots do NOT "break" airplanes. They WRITE UP existing problems, as they are required to, for the safety of their px and the professional execution of their job.