NetJets Smoking Question

[fischman]

That's smart!
No one wants to get a plane after some skanky smoker has violated it...and anyone can tell even if they've used an ozone machine/nasty air freshener/etc. I think we all can tell if someone has smoked in a hotel room, no matter what measures they try to take.
Yuck. If so many "don't" smoke, it only makes sense it is a selling point that "we don't allow smoking on our planes."

Nice attitude. Do you go in the Owners car and tell them not to smoke there too? Why is this so hard to understand? IT IS THEIR AIRPLANE.

Those "skanky smokers" are paying part of our salary. Show a little respect. The planes are professionally cleaned before another owner trip, and usually you can't tell someone smoked previously.

 

[Helmsalee]

acaTerry, does it smell better than "napalm in the morning"?

 

[CA1900]

...and usually you can't tell someone smoked previously.

You must be a smoker.

The last one I had smelled for two days, and that was after one lady smoking prior to a professional "cleaning."

If I were one of that plane's other owners and it picked me up smelling like a bar, I'd be pissed.

 

[gunfyter]

This is why I am pulling for Hillary. She hates tobacco, especially cigars :angryfire ... and Obama is a smoker.

I think all treatment for lung cancer should be billed directly to the tobacco companies... and to companies who do not provide smoke free environment to flight crews.

 

[bluepost]

Gunfyter why don't you wear your O2 mask during smoking flights if it bothers you too bad.....has to be on anyway during many flights during cruise.....surely an uncomfortable mask is better then getting cancer from the one smoking flight a year....

 

[VVJM265]

I've had one smoker in the 15 months I've been here. Put the mask on while she puffed away; would have done the same if it was RTS, who cares? Let him laugh and puff away...

 

[gunfyter]

Certainly I can do that.

I just would prefer there were no smoking on board.

"Twenty years after the first surgeon general's report on secondhand smoke, the evidence is now "indisputable" that the noxious fumes are a major health threat that kills an estimated 50,000 people each year, a new federal study said Tuesday.​

There is no level of exposure to smoke that is safe, and the children of smokers are at special risk, Surgeon General Richard H. Carmona said in releasing the new report...."​

Los Angeles Times - 6/27/2006​

So I guess I better not take the mask off to go to the head, have a bite to eat, or have a drink of water.

 

[ozpilot]

Interesting discussion and I can see both sides of the argument - the health of the pilot vs "Its the owners airplane!".

I was wondering what if the same attitude would apply if the owner lit up a joint.

It can't be...the OWNERS are just that; they OWN the plane. The house keeper can't tell the boss she can't smoke in her own house.

Does not apply if the owner lights up a joint. I would immediately ask them to put it out. If they didn't I would don the mask and divert, I'd like to notify the company, but how do I use the phone while wearing an ox mask?

 

[CA1900]

AFIS message:

FR: N999QS
TO: DISPATCH
MSG: PAX 1 TOKE OVER THE LINE. DIVERTING TO HOU. PLS NTFY THE PO-LICE. ALSO PLZ ADD DORITOS TO MY CREW LUNCH.

 

[Willy21]

Reply Message

From: Dispath
To: N999QS
MSG: Copy Dat. Day be comin.

 

[fly4funcrj]

you guys are too f'n funny

 

[fischman]

Interesting discussion and I can see both sides of the argument - the health of the pilot vs "Its the owners airplane!".

I was wondering what if the same attitude would apply if the owner lit up a joint.

At present, it is still legal to smoke a cigarette in the airplane.

A joint is illegal, and a mild hallucinogen. Now there ARE safety concerns there.

 

[B727FA]

I was wondering what if the same attitude would apply if the owner lit up a joint.

Apples andd Oranges

 

[realityman]

I'm a non-smoker and a bit of a health nut to boot. I can't stand that smell!

BUT, it is the owner's plane. As has been mentioned many times, after over 11 years here, I don't think I even need to switch to using toes to help me count how many times I've had someone smoking on my flights.

And what about the issue of the smell for the next pax flight? Owners who may really hate the smell of cigarettes? Well, if you feel it's not suitable for pax, ground it and have it professionally cleaned. It's very simple. Similarly, what would you do if a pax threw up all over the interior? Yeah, it could be cleaned up effectively by us or a cleaning crew, but what about the smell? Are we going to ban pax from puking on the plane? Good luck! If it stinks, for whatever reason, ground it and have it professionally cleaned.

As to health issues, well, one or two exposures to cigarette smoke per year? I'll step right up and admit I'm no doctor, and I've already mentioned I watch my health closely, but come on!! This isn't gonna hurt ya!

Gunfyter, I won't (read: can't) dispute your science analysis. But how much extended radiation exposure are we talking about here? How much additional exposure does it create over the usual background levels of radiation that a pilot is exposed to? Especially when it happens so infrequently. Wouldn't an X-ray at the hospital create an exposure to radiation FAR higher than any extra exposure we receive from cigarette smoke a couple times a year?

As to allergies, that's a tougher nut to crack. If it were me, i would politely and tactfully inform the pax of my allergy to cigarette smoke, and continue that while I understand they are allowed to smoke, it may cause a safety hazard to the flight if I became incapacitated because of it. Again, politely and tactfully.

VOR, you make me laugh! You chastise someone for supposed anecdotal evidence, but in a previous post on this thread make an obviously anecdotal comment about negatives outweighing positives at our job. I admit that some positives as conveyed by some people here are a bit overemphasized, but what are you basing YOUR analysis on? Are you, in fact, a Netjets pilot? It amazes me to see so many people flocking to work here with all the negatives you believe really exist. I mean, if you can see through to the truth, surely others can too. In truth, there ARE negatives. But most are really small and are far outweighed by all the true positives here. Show me some FACTS and maybe I'll look into becoming unhappier here.

 

[gunfyter]

Reality,

It only takes one exposure to secondary smoke.

its kind of like the lottery. You can buy 1 ticket and win... or you can buy thousands of tickets every day all your life and never Win.

I would prefer there were never any smoking anywhere near me. NJ will never ban it so I can only hope Hillary or obama do when they get in office....

"Every year, 3,000 nonsmoking adults die of lung cancer because they were exposed to smoke from cigarettes. Another 35,000 adults die from heart disease that’s attributable to exposure to secondhand smoke."

" Tobacco use is responsible for nearly 1 of every 5 deaths in the United States. Between 1997 and 2001, some 440,000 dads, moms, grandparents, aunts, uncles, brothers, and sisters died as a result of their use of tobacco products."

​

People worry about how many die in the Iraq war... But the Tobacco companies kill more!

 

[Diesel]

Show a little respect. The planes are professionally cleaned before another owner trip, and usually you can't tell someone smoked previously.

You're kidding right? When was the last time you've seen a "professional" cleaning crew hit our planes. Used to happen all the time at signature HPN.... now nada.

Still laughing.

 

[realityman]

Reality,

It only takes one exposure to secondary smoke.

its kind of like the lottery. You can buy 1 ticket and win... or you can buy thousands of tickets every day all your life and never Win.

I would prefer there were never any smoking anywhere near me. NJ will never ban it so I can only hope Hillary or obama do when they get in office....

"Every year, 3,000 nonsmoking adults die of lung cancer because they were exposed to smoke from cigarettes. Another 35,000 adults die from heart disease that’s attributable to exposure to secondhand smoke."

" Tobacco use is responsible for nearly 1 of every 5 deaths in the United States. Between 1997 and 2001, some 440,000 dads, moms, grandparents, aunts, uncles, brothers, and sisters died as a result of their use of tobacco products."

​

People worry about how many die in the Iraq war... But the Tobacco companies kill more!

Gun,

The problem I have with your statistics, is they don't really answer the question of whether or not those cancers were caused by the smoke or something else. For example, how many of those people were already genetically predisposed for cancer? Lung cancer may be more prevalent in smokers, but can happen in anyone, even folks who assiduously avoid second-hand smoke.
For those that were non-smokers but got the diseases anyway, how much second-hand smoke were they exposed to before the cancer? Any truly cut and dried studies that conclusively point to someone who got lung cancer but was only exposed minimally to second-hand smoke in their lifetime?
Can those studies conclusively prove that the diseases came from second-hand smoke, and not from all the pollutants and toxic chemicals being spewed forth from the tailpipes of our cars/plane/boats/factories/etc...that we all breathe in on a daily basis? After all, they just recently informed us that the plastic bottles we drink from on an almost daily basis leech carcinogens from the plastic into our foodstuff and drink.

Look, I really hate smoking. I'm not defending it. But it's risk management. I have a little paper with some statistics on it that I carry around with me to help reassure white knuckle fliers. Did you know that your chance of dieing in a car crash in your lifetime is 1 in 125? Are you making every effort to avoid the roadways? I realize you can mitigate some of the risk by driving defensively and not doing stupid things like driving drunk or reckless speeding, but much of it (other drivers) is completely out of your control. Life is full of managed risks.

So on the exceedingly rare occasion that someone wants to light up in the back of one of our aircraft, put the mask on. If you need to remove it to eat or head to the lav, I doubt the brief exposure will cause any harm. And if you're allergic, maybe try doing what I suggested before with the pax.

Personally, it won't hurt my feelings if it is banned by law in the near future. Not one little bit. But until that time, it's the owner's plane.

 

[gunfyter]

Surgeon general's stats.

Not long ago we had to put up with smoke in restaurants, airlines, college classes etc..

Now flight crews are the only class of workers not guaranteed a smoke-free work environment. I believe this will prove to be an overlooked legal liability.

 

[realityman]

How come you don't look anything like your avatar?:laugh:

Come on, just close the cockpit door on that Falcon and let the F/A deal with it!:beer:

 

[X-rated]

I'm a non-smoker and a bit of a health nut to boot. I can't stand that smell!

BUT, it is the owner's plane. As has been mentioned many times, after over 11 years here, I don't think I even need to switch to using toes to help me count how many times I've had someone smoking on my flights.

And what about the issue of the smell for the next pax flight? Owners who may really hate the smell of cigarettes? Well, if you feel it's not suitable for pax, ground it and have it professionally cleaned. It's very simple. Similarly, what would you do if a pax threw up all over the interior? Yeah, it could be cleaned up effectively by us or a cleaning crew, but what about the smell? Are we going to ban pax from puking on the plane? Good luck! If it stinks, for whatever reason, ground it and have it professionally cleaned.

Why do you guys keep saying they own the plane? No they don't. They own a fraction of an airplane, but likely not the one they are polluting. Instead, they are devaluing other owners assets.

"Professionally cleaned?" Seriously? The smell does not ever come out, and it offends other non-smoking owners.

Pilots at my company complained about smoking on our airplanes, and management backed us up. It was easy to justify a no smoking policy to our few smoking owners because their actions were not only impacting our crews, but also significantly reducing the quality of experience for our other owners.

If I bought a 20 million dollar airplane, and some other program owner stunk it up with cigarette smoke, I'd be livid.