NetJets seniority

[FamilyGuy]

Please explain how our reps are out of touch? I think we have shown numerous time how this company is WAY out of touch.

The ball is in their court....

squonk - I was refering to the previous MEC.

There is a lot of frustration directed at the company for the 3+ years that have been spent negotiating. I pointed out that the company reached an agreement with the MEC last fall. The company can only negotiate with your duly appointed representatives. If those representatives are out of touch and do not know what the pilots want, then why get mad at the company when it was your old reps that insisted on going over every single article in the contract, when it appears that what everyone really wanted was pay.

 

[Dixon Cider]

FG, you really are a sh!t disturber and a moron.

Why dont you just answer the questions?

You asked for answers from me earlier, and I provided them. You should reciprocate instead of dodging the questions.

And 20 billion? Isn't that a little bit of an exaggeration?


Let's face it....billionaires will have their own aircraft, not fly in a fractional program (overlooking WB, who owns the company). Not to mention the fact that there are only 3 people in the US worth 20 billion.

Yes it was an exageration. Yes, now I'm going to be hostile. You are too stupid to carry on this conversation with me. The company filings show his compensation package. Every CEO, or company presidents' earnings are public knowledge.

Chip? It was a simple statement and question. No attitude...so stop getting your panties in a wad. You should look in the mirror if you want to see an attitude.

I'm not going to claim to have the details of the raise offered or how it compares to current. Suffice it to say that everyone in the flight center supports the pilots in getting a raise (yes, a true raise) and being paid fairly for their contributions.

I would recommend steering clear of the hotel analogy though...from what I understand the hotel rates nationwide (including NetJets) have gone down significantly since 9/11.

No sir, you carry a chip. I don't wear panties so no wad here. Ok, so if you agree we deserve a "true raise" then shut the hell up. You are arguing just for the sake of it. You totally missed the hotel analogy. Forget it.

The flip-flop is simple. Go back and read the thread.

You first claimed that "we aren't performing POORLY, we just quit giving 110%. Now we just give 100%. We do EXACTLY what we are supposed to. Nothing more, nothing less. We do our job."

When I pointed out several examples of poor performances and illegal job actions, you changed your tune, denying engaging in any of those actions and claiming "I give 100%. What I said was, I quit giving 110%."

Now, when called on it you want to go back and change your tune again.

Ok, let me spell this out.......I/we do 100%, not 110%. There is NO poor performance and illegal job actions. If there were, pilots would be fired left and right. Your example of the so called tootsie roll, well, were the pilots fired? If not, then they didn't do anything illegal. We fly them not fix them. If it is broke, it's broke. Again, cut and dry. So you can't argue that one AGAIN!!

I'm still singing the same tune. Idiot.

No stereotyping at all. 95% of the posts on this board are crap, and they are posted by the same small group of malcontents.

Go back and read my posts....you'll see that I've repeatedly said that most of our pilots are great and I'm honored to work with them.

And if you do have several friends upstairs, whom you 'love like brothers', then why havent you spoken up in their defense when your peers are on here trashing everyone upstairs? Sounds like a friend I would want in my corner....

Right, you have said that most of our pilots are great. But you don't clarify that only 5% of the pilots are sh!tting on you. You just simply say that the pilots are sh!tting on you. Now who is changing their tune?? MORON.

My friends are ACP's and a few flight managers. Nobody is slamming them. They are picking on people like you. Huh, I wonder why?

WRONG. This crap has been on this board long before I started posting. I finally couldnt stand to see the lies, baseless allegations, and smear tactics anymore so I decided to start posting to provide a balanced viewpoint for all non NJ people.

The pilots started this whole thing because of the negotiations. The people "upstairs" decided to jump in something that they have no control over and started spreading company propaganda. If you score, expect to be scored upon. You know nothing of the negotiations except for what the company tells you. Sounds like baseless allegations from your part.

I posted several BS writeups (tootsie roll, removing fuel placards) All you could say was you dont do them. If you really have studied the RLA, then you'll know it wont matter to the judge whether you personally engaged in that act or not. You've asked to be represented collectively and you'll be judged collectively.

First of all, are they BS write ups because you say so? I will spell it out again....IF IT ISN'T IN THE MEL LIST, THE AIRPLANE MUST BE WRITTEN UP AND GROUNDED. Just because you don't like it, that's too bad. They had every LEGAL right to write it up. I can't help it that you hate pilots. And don't you worry, we have done nothing wrong. We have our own attorney team, if we are doing something illegal, the union would step in and put a stop to it. So there is nothing we are doing that is illegal. AGAIN, YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

You've been here 7 years and you didnt vote for them?

It really doesnt matter if you did or did not. A majority of your peers did, which made them your duly appointed representatives.

Again, if they didnt accurately represent what the pilot group wanted, whose fault is that? Just answer the question...

Let me ask you, whose fault do you think it is? It isn't mine!?!?!? Not sure what you gain from that answer.

If you're conspiracy theories are correct, then the company could have easily stretched this more than 10 months, especially after the pilots changed MEC's and Locals.

You are right, they WOULD HAVE STRETCHED THIS OUT ANOTHER 10 MONTHS, OR LONGER. But because we quit giving 110%, they decided enough was enough.

No, it doesnt sound like you're hostile at all...

Please just answer the question...if its the union representatives that were out of touch and not accurately representing what the pilots wanted, then why does the pilot group have so much hostility towards the company and want to blame them for three wasted years?

It takes two to tango ya ass. If the company wanted this done 3 years ago, all they had to do was offer a fair (there is that word again, that we both agree on, but yet you want to continue to argue) proposal. You yourself said that you don't know the details of the offer, but we do. It was a redistribution of funds, not a raise. So I offer you this....

So again, answer the question - What books do you want to see that the company doesnt want to show?

Well, I am an honest man, so the answer is I am not sure. What I do know is that I am good friends with a negotiator and that is all he can tell me due to his non-disclosure agreement. Why do you care?

So what's fair? If you have better work rules, better conditions, work fewer days, and get paid more than the other fractionals, is that fair?

Yes, that is fair, but that is not what the company is offering. I am getting really tired of your garbage.

Exactly. We are fractional and any comparisons should be made to other fractionals. So why do I constantly see people on this board saying they want corporate flight dept pay? or airline style hard day off schedules?

Again - If you have better work rules, better conditions, work fewer days, and get paid more than the other fractionals, is that fair?

Sure, other fractionals, that is fine, but the entire fractional industry is underpaid. Therefore, you can't compare Netjets to anybody. We aren't asking to be paid like a corporate flight dept. You have no clue what we are asking for, nor do I believe you even know what a corporate flight dept pilot makes. It varies too much from coast to coast.

The company picked the 7&7 schedule. It is what they wanted. We know what is fair for us. You have no clue. We don't beat our chest and tell you what is fair for your job. What gives you the right to do it to us?

I have better things to do with my time than exchange time consuming, pointless post with you. You have no control over this and what you say really doesn't matter. I have something you don't and that is a vote to decide what is fair. Thank god you don't.

If you were a big turd and you came out of my ass, I wouldn't waste the toilet paper to wipe. You sir, are the biggest idiot on this board. At least dispatcher has class and reason enough to understand at least some of our viewpoints.

I would love to meet you in cmh and "kiss" you between the eyes.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Are we switching to decaf soon?

Glad to see the level of discourse is considerate and professional as always.

The new "Cage Match" thread has been started on the Fractional Board. What say we move over there and watch the fireworks?

 

[steel]

family guy - do you work for NetJets? or are you a consultant working for NetJets? just curious....you seem to know a lot about the union stuff....do you think NetJets is a good place to try and get a job? or should i try and avoid it due to the union problems?

 

[FamilyGuy]

family guy - do you work for NetJets? or are you a consultant working for NetJets? just curious....you seem to know a lot about the union stuff....do you think NetJets is a good place to try and get a job? or should i try and avoid it due to the union problems?

Steel - yes, I do work for NetJets, and have been here for years. I've watched this company grow from nothing and I plan on being here till I retire....the current angst over the negotiations notwithstanding.

If you'll read the posts on this board carefully, you'll see that the pilot group likes the company, they like the work rules, they like the working conditions, they like the aircraft, they just dont like the pay....which is understandable since it hasnt been adjusted for awhile.

If you've watched this process before, you'll realize that the pilot group will bitch up a storm and tell you how bad everything is, because they view it as a way to pressure the company to give into their demands. It is not an accurate representation of the company and life here.

Bottom line, once the contract is settled you'll hear everyone on here crowing about what a great place it is and telling everyone to come on over here. Now, do you want to wait till that happens and stand in line like everyone else, or do you want to get in line now?

Its much like buying stocks....if you wait to buy a stock till everyone is talking about it then you've missed the real buying opportunities....

 

[Fracster]

Do we rely on the crews to help us catch mistakes like this? Certainly. At least we used to. I find it very unfortunate that we (as a company) are no longer working as a team due to the current contract situation and cannot rely on each other to help avoid mistakes rather than help facilitate them (as you did in this case). Imagine if you could not rely on your co-pilot to let you know if you missed an item on your checklist or missed a radio call or forgot to put the gear down. We are in a sad situation when we no longer look after each other and actually look for ways to make each other look bad.

Again, for those of us who have been here for longer than the average we used to do this. Where did it get us? Did anything change? No, this is the problem.

In all honesty we have taken the time to call in and make suggestions in a completely non-antagonistic way, just to help because we were looking out for the well being of the company and time and time again we were told our input was not appreciated and we didnt have "the big picture". You can only take so much.

Now we are at a crossroads. We do the absolute bare minimum. We just dont care. We arent paid to care or shown appreciation for doing so.

If you help scheduling out by doing a faster turn you get an extra leg. If you do the extra leg you get a 10 hour turn. Owner services consistently makes mistakes. In the past I would tell the owner it was a miscomunication and I personaly would appologize for the error on behalf of all parties involved. What did that get us? It got us more lies from owner services on a larger scale.

Over the years, the pilots have rewarded scheduling, owner services and dispatch for their mistakes. We have taught these groups to let their gaurds down because, we, the pilots would catch their mistakes and fix things in the end.

What happened when we were tired, overloaded or overworked and we screwed up? We got the infamous "bridgeway one" arrival and a letter in our files..

We simply dont do your jobs anymore. We can't. I agree everyone needs to work together but we have been doing so for so long and the outcome is still the same.

All the waste and problems with NJA is primarily these three groups. Certainly there are pilots doing their part to bring the ship down but look at our efficiency, customer service, work ethic...

We arent the ones wasting money. We fly the planes safely and efficently.

 

[Hogprint]

My little birdie tells me there may be a September surprise?????

Any other birdies chirping out there?


disclaimer: my birdie has been wrong before

 

[FAcFriend]

The company filings show his compensation package. Every CEO, or company presidents' earnings are public knowledge. dixon cider

Dixon,
Really. Can you tell me where? What filings? I went to the website looking for both NJ and BH. Can you be more specific? Link? Please tell me exactly where you found this information.
Thanks

disclaimer: my birdie has been wrong before hogprint

This is too hilarious.

 

[Hogprint]

Fracster posted:

If you help scheduling out by doing a faster turn you get an extra leg. If you do the extra leg you get a 10 hour turn. Owner services consistently makes mistakes. In the past I would tell the owner it was a miscomunication and I personaly would appologize for the error on behalf of all parties involved. What did that get us? It got us more lies from owner services on a larger scale.

Did a recovery a few weeks ago. Plane had an MEL'd air conditioner. We had just moved an 80 yr old couple off this plane, because it was not safe in the 95+ heat.

It wasn't five minutes before we got the "Netjets emergency" buzz on the hip. Go recover some pax. I tell the big giant head that we just moved pax off this plane because of the a/c. They said, OS told the pax and they did not care. Oh boy, here we go.

Long story short, we do the recovery, and ask if we can push back the ferry to maint till after dark and after the 95 degree heat. Flight Man, punts to scheduling who says, "no we need you to hurry and get up here....we have a 0400 show for you mananna`.

I says give me the ACP....thankfully, he pushed it back for a later and cooler departure.

My point is, I tried to handle this at the lowest level. If they did not push the flight back I would have just pushed a fatique call and now the plane doesn't get fixed and the next day is hosed for the sched.

As it worked out, we ferried to maint after dark, the plane is ready for the next day, and we went forth and put in a full day (as if there is anything else here!).

 

[FamilyGuy]

FG, you really are a sh!t disturber and a moron.

Yes it was an exageration. Yes, now I'm going to be hostile. You are too stupid to carry on this conversation with me. The company filings show his compensation package. Every CEO, or company presidents' earnings are public knowledge.

No sir, you carry a chip. I don't wear panties so no wad here. Ok, so if you agree we deserve a "true raise" then shut the hell up. You are arguing just for the sake of it. You totally missed the hotel analogy. Forget it.

Ok, let me spell this out.......I/we do 100%, not 110%. There is NO poor performance and illegal job actions. If there were, pilots would be fired left and right. Your example of the so called tootsie roll, well, were the pilots fired? If not, then they didn't do anything illegal. We fly them not fix them. If it is broke, it's broke. Again, cut and dry. So you can't argue that one AGAIN!!

I'm still singing the same tune. Idiot.

Right, you have said that most of our pilots are great. But you don't clarify that only 5% of the pilots are sh!tting on you. You just simply say that the pilots are sh!tting on you. Now who is changing their tune?? MORON.

My friends are ACP's and a few flight managers. Nobody is slamming them. They are picking on people like you. Huh, I wonder why?

The pilots started this whole thing because of the negotiations. The people "upstairs" decided to jump in something that they have no control over and started spreading company propaganda. If you score, expect to be scored upon. You know nothing of the negotiations except for what the company tells you. Sounds like baseless allegations from your part.

First of all, are they BS write ups because you say so? I will spell it out again....IF IT ISN'T IN THE MEL LIST, THE AIRPLANE MUST BE WRITTEN UP AND GROUNDED. Just because you don't like it, that's too bad. They had every LEGAL right to write it up. I can't help it that you hate pilots. And don't you worry, we have done nothing wrong. We have our own attorney team, if we are doing something illegal, the union would step in and put a stop to it. So there is nothing we are doing that is illegal. AGAIN, YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

Let me ask you, whose fault do you think it is? It isn't mine!?!?!? Not sure what you gain from that answer.

You are right, they WOULD HAVE STRETCHED THIS OUT ANOTHER 10 MONTHS, OR LONGER. But because we quit giving 110%, they decided enough was enough.

It takes two to tango ya ass. If the company wanted this done 3 years ago, all they had to do was offer a fair (there is that word again, that we both agree on, but yet you want to continue to argue) proposal. You yourself said that you don't know the details of the offer, but we do. It was a redistribution of funds, not a raise. So I offer you this....

Well, I am an honest man, so the answer is I am not sure. What I do know is that I am good friends with a negotiator and that is all he can tell me due to his non-disclosure agreement. Why do you care?

Yes, that is fair, but that is not what the company is offering. I am getting really tired of your garbage.

Sure, other fractionals, that is fine, but the entire fractional industry is underpaid. Therefore, you can't compare Netjets to anybody. We aren't asking to be paid like a corporate flight dept. You have no clue what we are asking for, nor do I believe you even know what a corporate flight dept pilot makes. It varies too much from coast to coast.

The company picked the 7&7 schedule. It is what they wanted. We know what is fair for us. You have no clue. We don't beat our chest and tell you what is fair for your job. What gives you the right to do it to us?

I have better things to do with my time than exchange time consuming, pointless post with you. You have no control over this and what you say really doesn't matter. I have something you don't and that is a vote to decide what is fair. Thank god you don't.

If you were a big turd and you came out of my ass, I wouldn't waste the toilet paper to wipe. You sir, are the biggest idiot on this board. At least dispatcher has class and reason enough to understand at least some of our viewpoints.

I would love to meet you in cmh and "kiss" you between the eyes.

Glad to see you have the emotional maturity and professionalism required to carry on an adult conversation.

I'd recommend that you avail yourself of some of the other benefits the company provides you - namely EAP....they can help you with your anger management issues.