NETJETS Seat Lock and Upgrade Section 5.3

[PUCKFA18]

THANKS GUYS for your help

Thanks for your help guys. I got the answers I was looking for.

Cheers!

 

[Floyd94]

If the upgrades remain at a snell pace, I will bid FO.

It amazes me that someone would consider 2 years to upgrade, a "snell"s pace. I think you ment "snail" however. Eitherway, I guess you have never been furloughed or even talked to anyone at AE that has been in the right seat for 6+ years and still waiting to upgrade.

Everything is relative... In my opinion, two years to upgrade is incredible! Especially for a company like NetJets. Hopefully it holds out for all the newhires.

 

[LostComm]

Everything is relative... In my opinion, two years to upgrade is incredible! Especially for a company like NetJets. Hopefully it holds out for all the newhires.

It can't. The "late comers" will end up at the bottom of a list that is no longer growing due to expansion, since RTS has made it clear that there are limits to how big he wants this organization to be.

Those who come after that magic point will only see upgrades through attrition, and they will be FO's for a very long time. We don't have to leave at 60.

Do the math. It's not rocket science. I've stated before that domiciles will not be as big an issue for future newhires as FO pay. I doubt many will be happy in year five or six still not seeing an upgrade in sight getting mid 40's. That will be the fate of the late comers.

How late is late? Nobody knows since our ultimate growth will only be seen with time. At least there's no pay for training.

 

[PUCKFA18]

FLOYD: thanks for your advice and the spelling lesson. I was typing from my blackberry, no excuse My situation would be closer to 4+ years to upgrade. The seat lock is 2 years.

LostComm: I'm somewhat in agreement with your explanation. RTS told us in recurrent that his goal would be 5000 pilots. But, he also said, that may not be possible, because this business model will "TOP OUT" at some point. The 5000 pilot’s goal was in next 8 - 10 years. Again, this is only an estimated goal by RTS. NO GUARENTEES!!!!

 

[Floyd94]

It can't. The "late comers" will end up at the bottom of a list that is no longer growing due to expansion, since RTS has made it clear that there are limits to how big he wants this organization to be.
.

I would have to argue that those that are hired this year will probably see a 2-3 year upgrade. Based on the business model of 4-5000 pilots on property being the ultimate goal, that puts the majority of newhires roughly half way up the list. What percent of pilots on the seniority list are PIC's again?

This year alone NetJets is netting 36 airframes. Thats huge growth. I was told that they can't make the XL's fast enough, and that they are sold out months in advance before even landing on property. Seems like a good time to get your foot in the door to me.

 

[Floyd94]

My situation would be closer to 4+ years to upgrade. The seat lock is 2 years.

Now you've managed to confuse me. (Which isn't very hard by the way) Didn't you say you were hired Nov. 2005 and looking at a possible upgrade roughly the end of this year?

 

[PUCKFA18]

FLOYDu are correct about Nov 05. However, I'm 300 numbers out from last upgrade. Therefore, based on current snail pace upgrades. that would take at least another 2+ years to upgrade, making a total of 4+ years on campus. Moreover bro.........I was furloughed from the major's and will not go back. Again, thanks for your input and advice.

 

[imacdog]

For those planning on making a career out of NetJets, even a 5-6 year upgrade wouldn't be that bad. Sure, living on FO pay for a couple/few years more than some pilots wouldn't be a great deal, but you still have your years of service when upgrading instead of starting at the bottom of the Captain payscale. Just compare the upgrade time at NetJets with many major airlines and you can see it's quite reasonable, even for those getting hired now.

 

[PUCKFA18]

imacdog: Good point, and I agree! I would just perfer to hangout in a larger airframe (DA-2000, Example), than the uboat until upgrade arrives. I NETJETS all the way till retirement. I love the place!

 

[imacdog]

Puck, I haven't even started class yet but if you are looking for a change from your current airframe I say bid a different plane and have fun with it. It could be quite a while to hold something like the G-200 or Falcon as a Captain, so it might be worth taking the opportunity to try out one of those planes now, while you are still an FO. How often do airplane/upgrade bids come out there?

 

[PUCKFA18]

FLOYD: You mentioned 36 airframes. What is the companies crew to airframe ratio? What about the training capacity? It is my understanding from training that they are very close to their capacity to pump out the maxium guys now. Guys get awards and wait months before they even step into class.
my .02 Cents

 

[PUCKFA18]

imacdog: The bids come out monthly. But, only a handful of numbers (3-5, as high as 12) per equipment. Congrat's and welcome to NETJETS... I personally love it here. This job is 10 times better than the "present airline situation" please no flame bait. I actually enjoyed the airlines before 911.

 

[Floyd94]

FLOYD: You mentioned 36 airframes. What is the companies crew to airframe ratio? What about the training capacity? It is my understanding from training that they are very close to their capacity to pump out the maxium guys now. Guys get awards and wait months before they even step into class.
my .02 Cents

I believe and correct me if I'm wrong, its roughly 10 pilots per aircraft. I have no Idea what the training capacity is as they seem to use multiple facilities(ie. "NetJets" training facility is not in existence), it would be hard to say.

 

[gunfyter]

Should be more like 6 pilots per airplane.

 

[PUCKFA18]

FLOYD: Bro....... I would have to disagree with the 10 pilot ratio. The airlines average that, but I have been hearing on the street more around 5-8 pilot ratio to airframe. But, I really don't have a valid number?
Again, my 2 cents

 

[Fozzy]

Puck,

If upgrade is longer than 3.25 I would RUN from the Uboat for the G200, Falcon or 800XP. It is all a gamble, but my guess is that we won't see a Captain with a 2000 seniorty number for at least another 16 months. Hang in there.

Howz the hand BTW???

 

[doylehargraves]

I don't work at NJA but I would look at it like this: IF you're 2 years from upgrade, or even a little less, you might as well get another type. Even if you miss your captain upgrade by just 6 months or so, look at it like this; the longer you spend in a falcon 2000, comfortably as an FO, is less time you'll spend as captain in a beechjet or ultra etc... Personally, I would sit FO in the 2000 until I could upgrade into an airplane that I wanted fly.

 

[notaNJApilot]

yeah but pay is quite different. its a tough gamble.
4 year capt is $80k.
4 year fo is $45k

check the online bidding system to see how far out you are. 2000EX FO might be a possibility.

 

[RNObased]

I don't work at NJA but I would look at it like this: IF you're 2 years from upgrade, or even a little less, you might as well get another type. Even if you miss your captain upgrade by just 6 months or so, look at it like this; the longer you spend in a falcon 2000, comfortably as an FO, is less time you'll spend as captain in a beechjet or ultra etc... Personally, I would sit FO in the 2000 until I could upgrade into an airplane that I wanted fly.

Exaclty my point. If you are 2 yrs from a Capt slot, which I think you may be. I would go for comfort and QOL. Believe me there is a difference in that in the large cabin jets.

Gun is correct the ratio is 5-6 crew per jet, not 10.

 

[be-400xpdriver]

So 36 airframes this year and figure 5.5 pilots per plane with 60% of all pilots are capt.

36x5.5= 198
198x.6= 118.8 capt.

So if you are 300 numbers away thats 2.5 yrs until upgrade assuming that NetJets keep getting aircraft at the same pace.