NetJets Pilots to Picket Meeting of Berkshire Hathaway Shareholders

[Grizz]

Falcon20 -

We recently had a CE-560 Captain bid come out with 16 open slots. The least senior guy who received it has been here about a year. Three or four of the successful bidders have been here less than 2 years. The other 12 have been here 3 years or more.

The reason it went that junior is for 2 reasons. The first was it was a large single bid. Had they released it as 4-6 smaller bids with different training dates, I don't think it would have gone that junior. Some guys just couldn't go to training right now no matter how much they desired the slot.

The second reason is the more compelling. All of the F/Os eligible to bid it that are senior to those guys are already receiving Captain's pay. The only guys that really bid the Ultra were folks looking for a better schedule, ones desiring more PIC time or people in a fleet that is going away - such as the H-1000.

One of the things that the company has expressed a strong desire to correct in the new contract is the ability for F/Os to remain in the right seat and to continue to receive the higher pay. Once we get a new contract, there are going to be 750+ guys that will have to upgrade to continue to receive Captain's pay. Add to that about 150 folks already on property that are F/Os on F/O pay. You'll have 900 pilots that will be bidding to upgrade before anyone new gets enough seniority to successfully bid.

A new pilot starting at NetJets today better count on 5+ years before moving to the left seat. They also better count on living on whatever wages are negotiated for F/Os because the bypass provision is going bye-bye. Current F/O pay starts at 27K and jumps to a whopping 32K by year 5. Keep that in mind if you are applying to NetJets.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Where were the 300+ picketers that organizers were expecting?

There weren't that many OFF for the 30th and 1st!

 

[falcon20driver]

Thanks for the explanation Grizz, the pilot I talked to didn't mention the FO captain pay ending any time soon, 5 years is an awful long time to live on 30K.

 

[netjetwife]

F20D, we were on FO pay for about 18 months; my husband has been with NJA for 27 months. It's no secret that I have complained bitterly about the low wages and that my husband (along with many others) is working hard as a union volunteer to change the pay scale for all NJ pilots. The FO/FOs joke that they are the poorest of the poor among NJ pilots and it is true! It is completely reasonable for a professional to anticipate raising a family on his/her wages. That so many are forced to supplement their NJ pay with another source of income is totally unacceptable. I, personally, would be shocked to see a contract pass that didn't allow families to end that practice. That said, I would not put my family in a situation where that may be necessary. I strongly advise pilots that are interested in NJ to "wait and see".

From my husband, the exact numbers---

Year 1 2,259 a month $27,108 annually
Year 2 2,364 .............28,368
Year 3 2,469 .............29,628
Year 4 2,574 .............30,888
Year 5 2,680 .............32,160

As you can see, you don't hit 30K until year 4. For these wages you are gone at least HALF the month. I have to laugh, albeit bitterly, at those who post here that the NJ pilots can't fight the company for a fair contract because they have few options. At these wages many jobs are available without spending ANY time away from home.

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE PAID AS SUCH

 

[Hawkered]

Absolutetly agreed! The fact that "flight attendants" who are CSRs and not required by FARs are being paid more is just b%$tt!

 

[netjetwife]

You read my mind! I can't imagine the pilots passing a TA that doesn't put an end to THAT INJUSTICE, as well.

A RISING TIDE SHOULD LIFT ALL BOATS

Nice to see you posting, Hawkered. Tell your wife hello for me!
Netjetwife

 

[IFlyOU]

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE PAID AS SUCH

Couldn't agree more... I'm still paying off my credit card debt!!

FYI: I know a COEX ERJ 145 SIC who has been there for 5 years and is barely forking in 30K...

everywhere you go it sucks. Nature of the beast...

*lives with it*

 

[netjetwife]

I don't think you guys should live with it. I think you should fight it! The NJ pilots are in the best position to do that right now, so it makes sense for them to go first. When they get a good contract, that'll be 2000+ pilot salaries helping to raise the bar. In the meantime, the Options pilots could get organized.....

There clearly needs to be corrections made across the industry. I'm not convinced that upper management deserves their lavish salaries....NJ's Mr. Boisture makes 1.2 MILLION A YEAR, I hear .....while the pilots of many companies are given subpar wages. Corporate greed is common enough in America that none of us should be surprised to see it in aviation.

 

[IFlyOU]

I don't think you guys should live with it. I think you should fight it! The NJ pilots are in the best position to do that right now, so it makes sense for them to go first. When they get a good contract, that'll be 2000+ pilot salaries helping to raise the bar. In the meantime, the Options pilots could get organized.....

There clearly needs to be corrections made across the industry. I'm not convinced that upper management deserves their lavish salaries....NJ's Mr. Boisture makes 1.2 MILLION A YEAR, I hear .....while the pilots of many companies are given subpar wages. Corporate greed is common enough in America that none of us should be surprised to see it in aviation.

*voted for kerry*

 

[h25b]

You read my mind! I can't imagine the pilots passing a TA that doesn't put an end to THAT INJUSTICE, as well.

A RISING TIDE SHOULD LIFT ALL BOATS

Should, probably won't... No contract ever does. Lots of things people want get given up as bargaining chips. The junior guys are the ones that are thrown in front of the train.

 

[Hawkered]

No, not anymore. Everybody gets taken care of, or we walk! This is not some Teamster's joke: this is the most organized campaign that aviation outside of the major airlines has ever seen!

Believe me, I thought this Strong Union thing was not going to be any better than the "Fab Five", when it first got started, but I was wrong!!

 

[El Chupacabra]

Should, probably won't... No contract ever does. Lots of things people want get given up as bargaining chips. The junior guys are the ones that are thrown in front of the train.

HEE HEE HEE.... The new MEC are Junior guys. 4 out of the 5 are SICs. No worries mate.

 

[CatYaaak]

HEE HEE HEE.... The new MEC are Junior guys. 4 out of the 5 are SICs. No worries mate.

Anyone reading an ASAP "informational" release has accurately figured that out already.

 

[Live4flyng]

Anyone reading an ASAP "informational" release has accurately figured that out already.

Then don't read it anymore D!CKHEAD. Why don't you head over to the corporate or general boards and take your boyfriend Publishers with you.

 

[CatYaaak]

As you can see, you don't hit 30K until year 4. For these wages you are gone at least HALF the month. I have to laugh, albeit bitterly, at those who post here that the NJ pilots can't fight the company for a fair contract because they have few options. At these wages many jobs are available without spending ANY time away from home.

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE PAID AS SUCH

I admire your commitment, but it doesn't help your position to advertize that your husband works only 2 weeks per month. There are very few "full time" jobs in or outside aviation where your time is completely your own and untethered to the workplace 25 weeks out of the year. It's also why it takes 5 of your husbands to crew 1 aircraft over there (and the argument that he's away from home when he's working.....well, he's a pilot, and it kind of goes with the territory).

For your sake, I hope you get a liveable wage right where you're at, because if your husband had to go work for one of those high-paying NBAA corporate jobs your ASAP newbies keep comparing themselves to, you (and them) would in for a VERY rude awakening as far as what a company expects in return.

I'm not trying to be super-critical, but your position would carry more legitimate weight if you stuck to arguments that accentuate NetJets ability to pay more and convincing the owners to fund it, rather than selective/hollow comparisons and alienating other proffessional pilots.

For instance, they sound like a bunch of kids in flight school or fresh from a regional when your group claims to "work harder", basing this on hours flown per year. Hours flown? you've gotta be kidding me...in business aviation duty is duty whether you fly or sit, and plenty of corporate guys (especially the higher paid ones) have more RON's than what your husband is seeing. Availability...the status of being "ready to go" is axiomatic to "going", and why those positions are salaried in the first place....you're paid to be available. That usually means every day of the year minus vacation time and whatever one's particular flight department can work out due to crewing and forecast trips. Sorry, you don't get to block company calls half the year and 10 hours every day for the other half.

As I said before, planning your family's life around being available would be a rude awakening for you...think "Air Force wife"...and in some cases "Navy Wife". And as much as you'd like it to be, it's no secret to anyone (including your customers) that most pilots at NetJets are there for the hard time-off schedule. Just ask Diesel when he's not on his boat.

"Pilots are professionals and shoud be paid as such". In that, you mean you want more for pilots in the frac industry , which is good. But problems arise when you compain about "fairness" and use NBAA averages as the point of reference. At it's foundation, and intrinsic to that salary, is the pilot being available to the company....all the time. Taken from an NBAA member company with it's own flight department's perspective, your husband and his peers are merely part-time employees doing shift work, but receiving full-time employee benefits. That's why it takes so many of them to get the job done.

And if you meet one at a party, don't whine about "fairness of pay" to one of those NBAA-salary pilot's wives who may be driving a new SUV. Once she hears about how you didn't have to move numerous times over the years to get to that point, sell your house, set up the kids in new schools, doctors. etc etc. because your husband's company has gateways she'll probably laugh in your face because...

....she's still living the lifestyle of an Air Force wife, but with no institutional support system or structure of the military, for less pay than your husband makes, and spent many times the years of your husband's civilian work experience in famine, before she finally gets a halfway decent (and well-deserved) feast. She's more than paid her spouse-dues, and done much of it alone because he's been gone. So don't even mention about how your husband "only" gets 2 weeks off every month, known in advance, or gosh, he spends a lot of time away from home when he's working.

Tell her how bad you have it, how "unfair" it is, but I don't think she'll be all that impressed.

And sorry, but your new leaders sound like complete dips#$ts and alienate others when they compare themselves (salary-wise) to "NBAA averages" while referring to those pilots as "less-trained" and "less-safe". Your management didn't come up with that in a brochure, there's no evidence to support it, and NetJets, being a late-comer to Part 91 ops, merely met the standard for training in progress at most corporate NBAA member flight departments....ones that exceeded the FAA mandate. EJA/NJA merely lived up to what the membership did of their own volition.

So the inference that the others don't meet standards that the NBAA set themselves is not only ludicrous and further highlights the ignorance at work there, but is also insulting to those outside your own house. Your support for those leaders is support for those statement. It's pretty stupid at every level for them to make them.

 

[CatYaaak]

Then don't read it anymore D!CKHEAD. Why don't you head over to the corporate or general boards and take your boyfriend Publishers with you.

Poor baby, still not old mature enough to understand what a public message board is about. You seem to have it confused with some kind of internal, priviledged-info memo. If you want to keep everything in-house, I suggest you only insult or talk about those in-house. News flash for you sonny, in the Big Boy World letting your own mess spill-over the boundaries of your yard will generate a response from others.

And as usual, another lame attempt to avoid proving the "less-trained", "less-safe" statement....only more name-calling from a message board bad-a$$. Gee, how will I ever sleep tonight?

Yawn.

 

[h25b]

HEE HEE HEE.... The new MEC are Junior guys. 4 out of the 5 are SICs. No worries mate.

Hope your right, because if you are it will be the first time I've heard of the guys at the bottom not getting hosed...

 

[Geronimo4497]

Yee Haw. Someone needs to retire from the FRAX business, or aviation totally for that matter.

 

[Live4flyng]

Poor baby, still not old mature enough to understand what a public message board is about. You seem to have it confused with some kind of internal, priviledged-info memo.

And as usual, nothing to support the "less-trained", "less-safe" statement. Only name-calling.

Yawn.

You should change your tag line to.... "When in danger, when in doubt. TALK in circles, scream and shout"

You are a profressional at talking in circles and not making sense. A self proclaimed expert on fractionals with no fractional experience.

If you don't like what ASAP or Netjets publishes, don't read it. Believe it or not, it wasn't written for you.

Yawn

 

[jpilot]

Facts

<<HEE HEE HEE.... The new MEC are Junior guys. 4 out of the 5 are SICs. No worries mate.>>

This is incorrect. 2 out of 5 are SIC's. Also, for the record, Strong Union is not comparing NJA wages to other fractionals, airlines, NBAA or commuters. They are going after what wages are possible with the profits of NetJets. That and only that is what they are using in negotiations. All the NBAA wages talk is just that talk. It is incorrect. Just thought I would set the record straight.