NetJets International Interview

[Publishers]

That is what I am saying. Gulfstream could easily contract a cross deal with the other fractionals. \

This whole single carrier crap is for airlines, not some charter company.

I understand the concept, the question is the stats on dead head flying versus boarded. How efficient is this really working out to be. It obviously is not 100% as you still use an incredible amount of charter lift/

 

[CatYaaak]

My Opinions and observations as a Proud NetJets Employee: The future as I see it.

Any and all pilots in a non-union shop will go to the bottom- it’s the law of fairness. NJI pilots already reap the rewards of the hard work put forth through the Union’s associated committees. ....

....The Pilots of NetJets Aviation has sacrificed- through their hard work and dedication -to the business model of NJA for the past 8 years and will no longer except sub-standard compensation.QUOTE]

Talk about a skewed version of things. The reason NJI pilots reap the main reward of higher pay is because those that went to work for NJI when it opened it's doors could command higher salaries by virtue of their experience of time-in-type (G-lV) and int'l ops...something seriously lacking in the pilot force of EJA (NJA). Even Gulfstream recognized this lack of experience and took steps to ensure that seat-by-seniority didn't override experience in the cockpit of their product. Most of these pilots, if they weren't ex-military G-lV pilots, were poached from Part 91 corp flight departments, and had better compensation packages than what NJI offers even now, but accepted it in return for a hard schedule and gateway system, things that existed at EJA prior to a union coming there anyway.

The whole thing is just an attempted seat-grab and sour grapes by those who made the conscious decision not to say "No" to go to work for gutter-wages or through lack of experience didn't have a choice, and are trying to punish someone else for their own individual weakness and sorry condition by using the facade of union "strength" and thuggery.

Besides, when I see "carrier" in aviation legalese, I think "holding out for common carriage", something that NJA or NJI at it's core (selling "ownership") does not do regardless of it holding a Part 135 certificate. This hope you're hanging onto probably won't even apply.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Good then I guess we can get out from under the RLA too.

 

[Publishers]

You should not be under the RLA. It was never concieved to cover companies like Netjets. Netjets is selling management of corporate and individual flight departments. To run around like you are an airline even though you have a 135 certificate is just ludicrous.

You take advantage of it because you want to and it serves your purpose. Gulfstream demanded and received the right to determine who got into the cockpit of their joint deal with Netjets/. They had a right to do that.

As someone pointed out, at Netjets, for the most part, owners own planes and contract with Netjets for management services. Ultimately they pay the bills. By that nature, their is no Netjets flying. You are picking one owner up with anothers aircraft because you can supposedly do that cheaper than flying his airplane around just for him.

 

[El Chupacabra]

They did not have a right to do that. It was a priviledge granted by the EJA pilots.

 

[da90drivr]

How were the NJA pilots involved in granting that priviledge? Did you get something in return for being so generous?

Along those same lines, if the pilots did allow the company to do this why do you believe you can now reverse your position?

I look forward to your response.

They did not have a right to do that. It was a priviledge granted by the EJA pilots.

 

[El Chupacabra]

An exception to our scope was made. Otherwise it could not be done.

What did we get? Thats a good question. Looks like nothing to me. "...Let me have this and someday this will be the Best Job in aviation"

Still f'n waiting.

 

[da90drivr]

If this is truly the case, what makes you think you can al just change your mind and get the flying back? It seems from you statement you (or your MEC) agreed to the creation of NJI. If you truly relaxed your scope for this,. I think it would have to occur through some sort of side letter between your union and management. You voluntarily gave it up through some sort of negotiation with the company What makes you think a judge will give it back just because...?
Is the NJI operation somehow limited in how long it can exist based on what you negotiated for its creation?

An exception to our scope was made. Otherwise it could not be done.

What did we get? Thats a good question. Looks like nothing to me. "...Let me have this and someday this will be the Best Job in aviation"

Still f'n waiting.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Thats for lawyers to decide.

We will apply all pressure on management until they decide to pay properly.

I am happy for the guys who got a good deal at international. Now I want my good deal.

 

[da90drivr]

What does your group consider fair pay? What standard or base are you using to determine your worth?
This is not meant to be flame bait, I am curious what you think if fair equitable pay for the job you do and the work rules you have. I am looking for an answer other than "as much as we can get".

Thanks

 

[El Chupacabra]

That information is not for release outside our group. But it is several tens of thousands more than has been offered.

 

[Publishers]

My one question is why Santulli ever bought EJA. He would have been just as well off starting from scratch with a non-union virgin certificate and building the company.

I can only assume it was for the high profile client list. These customers are already paying outlandish management costs and any change in pay is sure to escalate that to where it is only those with enough money not to care that stay with it.

If fractional sales slow or recede, then this house of cards will soon be in deep trouble. They have already figured out that the European market is quite different than the US.

If you figure you are so underpaid, go shop yourself to the market. I assure you I can get a type rated Challenger crew for $160k a year that has experience and that includes all benefits. It is one thing to read an NBAA salary survey and to actually go out and find a job that meets that. Are there high paying postions at major Fortune 500 companies, yes. Are they plentiful, no.

 

[El Chupacabra]

What we need is to raise the minimum wage for pilots to $100K.

 

[Live4flyng]

My one question is why Santulli ever bought EJA. He would have been just as well off starting from scratch with a non-union virgin certificate and building the company.

Hey Publishers,
You really don't know much about Executive Jet Aviation or Netjets do you? I would recommend reviewing the history of the company before posting any more garbage. You truly look like an A$$ when you speak of something you have no clue about. Do you really claim to be an aviation expert and columnist? Maybe you are the one who continues to publish erroneous articles for AIN.

 

[Diesel]

that explains why AIN get's it wrong every time. He's doing his research on this board and makes it up.

Too bad publisher's couldn't handle it on the road and had to go and try and write about aviation. Yet he never really could quite make it to the big show.

Ha ha we finally figured it out. Publisher is one of those guys that talks loudly on an airliner so everybody knows that he knows something about flying. Of course the professionals keep quiet and just want him to shut the f up.

Just like this board. LOSER

 

[El Chupacabra]

House of Cards.

If its really a House of Cards then let it fall.

 

[SafetyTheSeat]

CATYAP



As an experienced aviator and GulfStream pilot, I must say that it is insulting to any pilot to make a big deal out of flying international and or the GulfStream. International is a long IFR flight with position reports PERIOD and the GulfStream is just another airplane PERIOD!



Stop having such a big head about equipment one operates and realize that anyone can fly the dang airplane. Additionally; like it or not NetJets is under the RLA and all non-UNION employees from a purchased company will go to the bottom of our Air Carrier Seniority list.



NetJets will leave the GulfStream entanglement to implement their business plan as they seem fit not as dictated by an OEM. Dassault provides machines without limitations to their operations or crewing-GulfStream does not. Look for the 7x soon with NJA pilots flying them international- as we presently do daily!

 

[CatYaaak]

CATYAP



As an experienced aviator and GulfStream pilot, I must say that it is insulting to any pilot to make a big deal out of flying international and or the GulfStream. International is a long IFR flight with position reports PERIOD and the GulfStream is just another airplane PERIOD!



Stop having such a big head about equipment one operates and realize that anyone can fly the dang airplane. Additionally; like it or not NetJets is under the RLA and all non-UNION employees from a purchased company will go to the bottom of our Air Carrier Seniority list.



NetJets will leave the GulfStream entanglement to implement their business plan as they seem fit not as dictated by an OEM. Dassault provides machines without limitations to their operations or crewing-GulfStream does not. Look for the 7x soon with NJA pilots flying them international- as we presently do daily!

Thanks for the lame-o attempt to assign a big head to me, but I didn't make a big deal out of anything, certainly not flying a Gulfstream (flying any airplane ain't rocket surgery) nor is int'l ops....um...PERIOD. Congrats on your experience, but that still doesn't change the history of how NJI came to be, or what forces like Gulfstream and insurance companies dictated as far as time-in-type to have the operation up an running from ground zero in little time. Direct your hissy-fit at them, but it's not as if this is a new thing. Even airlines have rules regarding green-on-green crewing in a type, and that's what drawing from the EJA pilot pool at the time back then would have resulted in. If you think that's insulting, well whatever.

Besides, what's so great about having a union? You've had one there for years now, and yet it remains that nobody flies business aircraft for less than you agreed to do it for. Is it all about the feel-good rhetoric?...and how will your lot change if you succeed in what you want regarding higher-paid, non-union pilots, who didn't sell out?

 

[Publishers]

I know enough that if the deal with Santulli had not gone through, I likely would have been the head of Sales and Marketing under Paul Tibbetts which I had several interviews for with he and Bruce Sunland.

I do not write for AIN which is not a disclaimer as they are a good publication.

Frankly Diesel, what do you consider the big show. I was in charge of the construction and implementation of the Flying Tigers domestic hub, was head of sales and marketing at Evergreen International, was the principal trasport category aircraft trader for International Air Leases, was responsible for providing certification consulting and crews for airline certifications like Air Tran and Sun Jet.

The fact is that EJA did not exactly have a great history of profits. Lassiter and LeMay had a great time playing with it but did not produce much for investors. The company struggled along for almost twenty years. They basically sold charter for about $3.45 a mile and were geared for one way trips.

In the end, EJA brought very little to the table at purchase. They had a high profile list, a certificate, and mostly ex military pilots. They did have a decent maintenance shop by that point at CMH. Still, if you looked at his game plan, he could have just as easily started from scratch. I would have been glad to sell him my 135 operation with it's own airport base, fuel farm, and hanger for less. As he changed everything about the operation, what difference would it have made.

 

[Live4flyng]

There you go not making any sense once again. So you drop a few names from the old days, but you clearly have little knowledge about NJA and it's operations.

I know enough that if the deal with Santulli had not gone through, I likely would have been the head of Sales and Marketing under Paul Tibbetts which I had several interviews for with he and Bruce Sunland.

Please explain to us why you would go and work for Executive Jet as an employee when you

would have been glad to sell him my 135 operation with it's own airport base, fuel farm, and hanger for less.

??? This makes absolutely no sense at all. You would be willing to go to work as an employee for a competitor of your own charter operation? Please explain in plain english so we can understand this one.