NetJets International Interview

[NJA Capt]

NJA Capt,

Were the NJA pilots prevented in any way other than experience requirements from interviewing and being hired by NJI?

No way to transfer between companies. We must quit first then interview with NJI like everyone else.

I fail to see how they are taking your jobs and stealing your flying. Because of Gulfstreams involvement in the marketing and sale of the planes they stipulated certain requirements of the crews.

Boeing stipulated things too, but they were still flown by njA pilots.

…interesting how one group will try to screw another just to get what they think is theirs. … why not find a way to fix it without screwing other pilots?

Why do you think we are trying to screw them? We have never said anything about “getting back at the pilots” or the company for that matter. We never said we wanted to take their planes and kick their pilots to the curb. There would surely be a fence protecting THEM and US during a merger. From a business standpoint it only makes sense to combine us. Why have two operations/organizations flying the same passengers under the same name? As someone said before, if we are to be totally separate, then we should not be allowed to cover their trips and visa versa.

What are you willing to give up in negotiations to get better scope? Contract negotiations involves both give and take. Are you willing to give up money? work rules?

I think we have given concessions already.
Our union negotiated the 7/7 schedule….guess who else got it?

Our union hotel committee arranged hotel rates and transportation…..Guess who else utilizes it?

Our union arranged the “crew lounge” in our hotel in TEB…..guess who else uses it?

MESA was also forced to combine operations a few years ago, instead of running a dozen separate operations.

I say if we are going to be the same family, let’s act like the same family.
One name, one roof.

 

[da90drivr]

I think we have given concessions already.
Our union negotiated the 7/7 schedule….guess who else got it?

Our union hotel committee arranged hotel rates and transportation…..Guess who else utilizes it?

Our union arranged the “crew lounge” in our hotel in TEB…..guess who else uses it?

MESA was also forced to combine operations a few years ago, instead of running a dozen separate operations.

I say if we are going to be the same family, let’s act like the same family.
One name, one roof.

What you mention above are not concessions they are benefits.

The hotel rates your hotel committee arranged benefit the company not the other pilot group.

I was asking what you are willing to give back to the company to merge the two companies the pilot groups and aircraft.

Mesa merged operations but had three separate pilot groups. CCair, Mesa and Freedom. Freedom was eliminated after major concessions by the pilot group during contract negotiations.

re. the screwing the other pilot group, I was referring to those who wanted the planes, the seats and a staple with no reference to fences.

 

[Majik]

I was asking what you are willing to give back to the company to merge the two companies the pilot groups and aircraft.

NOTHING!!! The question is, "What is the company willing to give NJA pilots to prevent us from pursuing legal remedies that would force the merger of the two subsidiaries."
Look, if a court decides that NJI and NJA are similar operations, operated by the same company, then it will rule that the two should combine. That would be a win for NJA pilots.
If Santulli decides he doesn't want his NJI operations combined with NJA, then he may want to play "Let's Make A Deal." We will definitely consider his offer. Either way, NJA pilots benefit. So to answer your question - We Don't Have To Give Up Anything and I'm surprised that you would think that we would or should.

 

[da90drivr]

NOTHING!!! The question is, "What is the company willing to give NJA pilots to prevent us from pursuing legal remedies that would force the merger of the two subsidiaries."
Look, if a court decides that NJI and NJA are similar operations, operated by the same company, then it will rule that the two should combine. That would be a win for NJA pilots.
If Santulli decides he doesn't want his NJI operations combined with NJA, then he may want to play "Let's Make A Deal." We will definitely consider his offer. Either way, NJA pilots benefit. So to answer your question - We Don't Have To Give Up Anything and I'm surprised that you would think that we would or should.

What is the plan if the court decides your operations are different?
You seem to have alot of confidence in the court ruling in your favor. With this threat looming over managements head why are they not at the table trying to make a deal?
You have very little bargining power under the RLA until you are released for "self help".

In a perfect world pilots would not have to give up anything for decent work rules, pay and benefits. I do hope you get an industry leading contract. It gives the next group in line a better jumping off point.

 

[NJA Capt]

The hotel rates your hotel committee arranged benefit the company not the other pilot group.

Mesa merged operations but had three separate pilot groups. CCair, Mesa and Freedom. Freedom was eliminated after major concessions by the pilot group during contract negotiations.

True, rates benefit the company, what I was refering to is the type hotel (Embassy, Hilton, Hyatt), free movies, breakfast, internet, exclusive transportation for NetJet Crews etc.

I'm not real sure what you mean by your Mesa analogy.....Everybody Mesa touches is eliminated. Look at it the other way, Mesa was not allowed to continue operating CCA, Florida Gulf, etc seperately. They had to combine under a common ticket....that's what we want.

 

[Majik]

What is the plan if the court decides your operations are different?
You seem to have alot of confidence in the court ruling in your favor. With this threat looming over managements head why are they not at the table trying to make a deal?
You have very little bargining power under the RLA until you are released for "self help".

In a perfect world pilots would not have to give up anything for decent work rules, pay and benefits. I do hope you get an industry leading contract. It gives the next group in line a better jumping off point.

If the court says no, then we accept the decision and move on, no big deal. I feel confident that NJA and NJI are similar. I'm not sure why you don't think so. If you saw the two operations you would not see any difference except the type of plane used and the pilot uniforms. Otherwise, we'd have a different subsidary for every type of plane we fly.
Our last MEC tried to foster a relationship between the pilots and management like the one Herb had with the SWA pilots. Problem is, Santulli ain't no Herb. We are about to get a new MEC that is willing to play by "Santulli Rules". That means everything is legal and no blow is too low. We will use every tool in the drawer to try to negotiate a better position. That's all this is, a negotiating tool in our effort to get an improved contract.

 

[Publishers]

They may not be your airplanes. Who is financing this deal???

 

[Starman]

Publishers,

The owners are financing the deal. They buy the aircraft. NetJets makes a profit on the sale. Gulfstream makes a profit on the sale. NetJets operates the aircraft for the owners. NetJets makes a profit on operations.

I'm trying to figure out how you can profess to be this big business expert but fail to grasp this fairly simple equation.

 

[Publishers]

Ah Starman, I see you missed the point again. Who financed the joint venture and is Gulfstream providing any financing for the owners shares of the aircraft.

 

[Majik]

The planes are operated by NetJets. Gulfstream may have financed a portion of them, I don't know. But they are OPERATED by NetJets. If the judge rules that NJI is similar enough of an operation to NJA then it doesn't matter if Santulli borrowed money from Gulfstream to finance the order. If Gulfstream dosn't like the judges ruling, they can stop selling planes to NetJets or accept the fact that the jets they sell will be flown by unionized pilots. I'm sure if there's a financing problem, Uncle Warren might be able to scratch up enough for the deposits to cover what Gulfstream may have provided.

 

[Starman]

Ah Starman, I see you missed the point again. Who financed the joint venture and is Gulfstream providing any financing for the owners shares of the aircraft.

I missed nothing oh great sage.

I know a smoke screen when I see it. The Gulfstream argument is just such a smokescreen. If there was ever a more clear cut case of single carrier status, I've never seen it. NetJets was nervous enough about it to move all the NJI management guys back down to SAV this summer once they got wind that the NJA pilots were really discontent and likely to push forward with a petition. I'm betting the judge rules that it was too little...too late.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

True, rates benefit the company, what I was refering to is the type hotel (Embassy, Hilton, Hyatt), free movies, breakfast, internet, exclusive transportation for NetJet Crews etc.

Agreed, the NJI and EJM crews take avantage of all the benefits our travel committee got for us. Rates, rooms, trans, exercise rooms, internet, crew lounge etc. Kick them out!!!

 

[da90drivr]

Well, at least your union was able to get you something. It seems from all of the whining on this board that the pay still sucks and no new contract in three years of negotiating. But that's ok you get free internet.

I have always arranged for free internet for my crew, usually you just have to ask. The better hotels have a fitness center or offer a free pass to an outside vendor.

Agreed, the NJI and EJM crews take avantage of all the benefits our travel committee got for us. Rates, rooms, trans, exercise rooms, internet, crew lounge etc. Kick them out!!!

 

[Publishers]

Well, I do not know what the current situation is but I know in SEC filings that GD/Gulfstream consider Gulfstream Shares and their lease finance operation one of their critical assets at least as far as 1999. When started in 1995 with Netjets, they provided $500 million in aircraft that may have been difficult for Netjets to deal with on their own.

There is no question that EJI would not even have existed if it had not been for the support and desire of Gulftream.

It would also be pretty easy for this to be disolved to the Gulfstream side and leave Netjets out of it. Frankly you guys have an identity crisis going on, one minute you think you are an NBAA type company, a few minutes later an airline type company.

There is no motion on that side of the house to join your side and I am sure that it was only your efforts that won them benefits. That aside, I see little coming out of all this militancy that will be productive. The 82% vote that everyone is so proud of says to me that the last three years of negotiation has been a total waste. To say that the MEC did not know what you wanted and yet sent this up for a vote says that there is either no communication or the leadership did not feel you could get anything like what you wanted.

It sounds like your attention to EJI reflects the fact that you just do not like it that there is a group not bitching and who does not want to be part of the mess being made of Netjets.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

It would also be pretty easy for this to be disolved to the Gulfstream side and leave Netjets out of it.

I don't understand this.. are you saying NJI could split off from NetJets? With Gulfstream operating as its own fractional company?

If that's what you are saying then you truely have no concept of how fractional flying works.

Actually that seems to be the case anyhow. Weren't you the one saying that fractional operations are inefficient due to ferrying? One of the key problems that fractional ownership was created to solve?

There is matter of scale that is crucial unless you are just aiming to be a regional fractional operator. The idea is to have enough airplanes to be able to cover any trip with an airplane thats already nearby. This isn't always possible but the more airplanes you have the more often it will be possible.

There is also the case of the Gulfstream share owners that like to downgrade to smaller planes as appropriate to the travel being done.

Do you realize how often the type of airplane used on a given day is different than the type the owner has a share in? All the time.

By buying a NetJet share you gain access to our entire fleet.. with no distinction between NJA or NJI. Most customers who have been flown on both probably have no idea there is any difference.

The bottom line is NetJets is marketed and sold as a single brand with seamless operational blending of the two. It is a single carrier.