Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

NetJets Integration

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
wolfpackpilot said:
Your right about that, I agree. Thats why I got involved with the union in the 1st place back in my former life.



OK Bill,

Since the stars have aligned, the universe is upside down and we are using F.I. for this discussion (which goes beyond comprehension).

Answer this.... With a simple "YES" or "NO" please.

Is it your opinion that NJI LINE pilots should have an advocate from within their ranks that is not hand selected by anyone from management but comes from within, to work with you/NJASAP/Okatie concerning the implementation of the LOA?

(Bonus Question)

If you do feel NJI pilots should have someone representing their interests in these discussions, are you willing to make sure that happens? Will you guarantee this person unfettered access to all meetings and people working on the integration?



Captain William Vaughan (I know you, now you know me)
GIV
Click to expand...

Wolfpack,
More questions if you don't mind sharing

Willam,

You never answered my question about noticing if there was an issue between the NJI/NJA pilots when you first came to NJI.

It's amazing to me, someone with all of your union experience would be oblivious to the NJI NJA issue.

Were you told by your leadership that integration would never happen?

Were you never aware that the NJI pilot group was asked on more than one occasion for integration?

What unionized carrier did you fly for before coming to NJI?

What was it like flying for and representing pilots in a union leadership position, at a unionized carrier, then leaving for non-union carrier?
 
Are you writing my autobiography for me or something? Geez dude, you sound a little creepy.


Were you told by your leadership that integration would never happen?

Yes, that is correct. Every pilot at NJI heard their superiors say more than once, "YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN".

Were you never aware that the NJI pilot group was asked on more than one occasion for integration?

No, I have no knowledge of what the union did or didn't do prior to the CBA agreement in '05.

What unionized carrier did you fly for before coming to NJI?

ACA, MDW, CMR

What was it like flying for and representing pilots in a union leadership position, at a unionized carrier, then leaving for non-union carrier?

A blessing like I never could imagine. NJI (NetJets) has been very good to me and my family. I have nothing but respect for this business model and Mr. Santulli. Are there things I dont like? Sure, show me a perfect place... doesn't exist. But NetJets is about as close as you can get to having the best of both worlds (insert Hanna Montana video)...


AND....

Im a scorpio, like popcorn, long walks on the beach, Barry Manilow, and cuddling on the coach with my wife and our 4 poodles and 3 cats.
 
wolfpackpilot said:
Are you writing my autobiography for me or something? Geez dude, you sound a little creepy.


Were you told by your leadership that integration would never happen?

Yes, that is correct. Every pilot at NJI heard their superiors say more than once, "YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN".

Were you never aware that the NJI pilot group was asked on more than one occasion for integration?

No, I have no knowledge of what the union did or didn't do prior to the CBA agreement in '05.

What unionized carrier did you fly for before coming to NJI?

ACA, MDW, CMR

What was it like flying for and representing pilots in a union leadership position, at a unionized carrier, then leaving for non-union carrier?

A blessing like I never could imagine. NJI (NetJets) has been very good to me and my family. I have nothing but respect for this business model and Mr. Santulli. Are there things I dont like? Sure, show me a perfect place... doesn't exist. But NetJets is about as close as you can get to having the best of both worlds (insert Hanna Montana video)...


AND....

Im a scorpio, like popcorn, long walks on the beach, Barry Manilow, and cuddling on the coach with my wife and our 4 poodles and 3 cats.
Click to expand...

Creepy?

Well allow me to retort (as Julius in Pulp Fiction said).

Its pretty obvious you're trying to both vilify and denigrate Cast of Thousand's and many, many, other countless volunteers' work by offering half truth's and self-serving suggestions and threats.
Although I have strongly disagreed with some of Cast's philosophies, he and his cast of thousands, together, have just about completed a miracle. Proving me wrong many times.
Your frustration and greed is thinly disguised with your concern for having a voice in the integration.

You are a fool to think you can convince anyone that you were never made aware of the NJI/NJA issue when you first came here or soon afterward.

The smell from the integration issue had been percolating like an open sewer for years.
Folks at NJA were told by probably some of the same folks that fed you the non-integration line, "just wait, you will fly G-whiz's too" over a decade ago.

Remember Mr. Vaughn, you allowed yourself to get near the metaphorical sewer (integration issue) and now a little of the stink has splashed on you.
Bleach, oxyclean, acid will not get it off of you.
Neither will attacking folks tasked with trying to move forward with improving our ALL of our lives.
Too Bad Bill Vaughn, WE ALL NEED TO MOVE ON.

Shame on you for trying to instill FUD into the integration LOA.
Thank you BW for correcting both Bill and I on some issues.
You admit you had no idea that the NJI folks were approached by the union many times earlier.
I don't believe you.
Remind me again, you were union leadership?

You, Bill Vaughn in my opinion, exhibit a textbook "what's in it for me", "know it all" attitude.

I hope to see you run for a NJASAP union position, your reputation will precede you.

You might want to clean up your act though, our elected leaders are razor sharp, professional and tenacious.
Judging by your posts on this messageboard you have a long long long way to go.

Lastly, I have a few more questions:

Do you like Pina Coladas?
Getting Caught in the rain?
Are you into Yoga? Do you have half a brain?
I'll skip the next few questions
Write to me and we'll escape :pimp:
 
Last edited:
sorry jppt you couldn't be more wrong. As a gear puller switch bitch for Billy him and I have many conversations about what is going on. I've also talked to as many pilots that you can imagine and all have the same line. "there is no way NJA pilots would or will come over here". It had been like that since 86 or so, so why wouldn't it continue.

He isn't, you're anger is misplaced, and BO made his best shot at spreading FUD and got shot down. Maybe a guy with a limb and a trunk will help spread the word of BO some more but I have a feeling even he is getting tired of the FUD message.

Sorry know it all and whats in it for me describes me not Bill. ;)

Way off base but so is most the preconceptions of the NJA and NJI pilots.
 
Diesel said:
sorry jppt you couldn't be more wrong. As a gear puller switch bitch for Billy him and I have many conversations about what is going on. I've also talked to as many pilots that you can imagine and all have the same line. "there is no way NJA pilots would or will come over here". It had been like that since 86 or so, so why wouldn't it continue.

He isn't, you're anger is misplaced, and BO made his best shot at spreading FUD and got shot down. Maybe a guy with a limb and a trunk will help spread the word of BO some more but I have a feeling even he is getting tired of the FUD message.

Sorry know it all and whats in it for me describes me not Bill. ;)

Way off base but so is most the preconceptions of the NJA and NJI pilots.
Click to expand...

Diesel, I'm not angry.
Just very cynical.
I flew many tours with the guy who always followed BO around with a fresh roll of toilet paper.
He was the biggest pilot-union advocate/ management-critic you could of imagined.
I held the exact opinion of this VP you now have of Wolfpack.
Have you read Wolfpack's posts from years past?
I really loved the one about how he (a Gulfstream pilot with two type ratings) would be looking for a job if integration was announced.
I don't believe for a second he didn't know 2000+ pilots at NJA were not going to take issue with NJI.
What kind of a ex-union leader would not have the slightest interest in what was going on with NJA?
What kind of a ex-union leader wouldn't question what was in the koolaide being served by management.
Even with the past LOA allegations that have been made of our two "shepherds", they did accomplish what was asked of them and much more.
They stood up and delivered.
Those are the facts.
IMHO we need to move on with the future.
Bill O was correct about the sins of our fathers (284), and we all have to take a bite out of the sandwich, including yourself.
 
Last edited:
Diesel said:
sorry jppt you couldn't be more wrong. As a gear puller switch bitch for Billy him and I have many conversations about what is going on. I've also talked to as many pilots that you can imagine and all have the same line. "there is no way NJA pilots would or will come over here". It had been like that since 86 or so, so why wouldn't it continue.

He isn't, you're anger is misplaced, and BO made his best shot at spreading FUD and got shot down. Maybe a guy with a limb and a trunk will help spread the word of BO some more but I have a feeling even he is getting tired of the FUD message.

Sorry know it all and whats in it for me describes me not Bill. ;)

Way off base but so is most the preconceptions of the NJA and NJI pilots.
Click to expand...


Diesel (Dunner),

Shot down? Are you serious. Hundreds of emails, dozens of FI PM's, and a lot of phone calls vs a couple of what appears to be teenage infatuation style "why did you dump me" FI therapy session posts? All good here, more than 3,500 pilots at NJ-US and this far from represents the professional pilots I know - very well.

Please understand, there are people one can be proud to upset. It is said, "if you're not upsetting [some] people, it's most likely because you're doing nothing." A solid group of NetJets pilots got a lot done in less than five years and none of us regret some are upset. To me what I see here is simply affirmation the [pilot] mainstream has clearly disregarded you and others.

Keep in mind more than 94% of NetJets pilot are happy with their NetJets CBA and career... Numbers that exceed every air carrier in the US, Europe, and Asia. Numbers that have been consistent and climb slightly over the past four years. That didn't happen without upsetting people. That's life.

So when we have an NJA to NJI pilot who wanted to separate from (leave) their union, if NJI would treat them like the non-union NJI pilots and upgrade them to Captain out of seniority lecturing me and others... What???? Or, a previous union [leader] pilot talking about how great it is to be a non-union pilot... What???? Preaching ... is truly laughable.

Like I said, the [FI] righteous aren't so righteous. And, it's fun for some to pretend on FI. I will continue to do what I have done over the past five years with the same goals and principle - you can just keep on talk'n.

If you can't grasp reality - you're set for failure. You clearly don't know the difference between FUD and reality. Good news ... At least 3,300 of the 3,500 NetJets pilot are waiting for you to catch up.

Enjoy,

.
 
CastofThousands said:
Diesel (Dunner),
Shot down? Are you serious. Hundreds of emails, dozens of FI PM's, and a lot of phone calls vs a couple of what appears to be teenage infatuation style "why did you dump me" FI therapy session posts? All good here, more than 3,500 pilots at NJ-US and this far from represents the professional pilots I know - very well.

Please understand, there are people one can be proud to upset. It is said, "if you're not upsetting [some] people, it's most likely because you're doing nothing." A solid group of NetJets pilots got a lot done in less than five years and none of us regret some are upset. To me what I see here is simply affirmation the [pilot] mainstream has clearly disregarded you and others.

Keep in mind more than 94% of NetJets pilot are happy with their NetJets CBA and career... Numbers that exceed every air carrier in the US, Europe, and Asia. Numbers that have been consistent and climb slightly over the past four years. That didn't happen without upsetting people. That's life.

So when we have an NJA to NJI pilot who wanted to separate from (leave) their union, if NJI would treat them like the non-union NJI pilots and upgrade them to Captain out of seniority lecturing me and others... What???? Or, a previous union [leader] pilot talking about how great it is to be a non-union pilot... What???? Preaching ... is truly laughable.

Like I said, the [FI] righteous aren't so righteous. And, it's fun for some to pretend on FI. I will continue to do what I have done over the past five years with the same goals and principle - you can just keep on talk'n.

If you can't grasp reality - you're set for failure. You clearly don't know the difference between FUD and reality. Good news ... At least 3,300 of the 3,500 NetJets pilot are waiting for you to catch up.

Enjoy,

.
Click to expand...

I didn't know we were throwing names around on FI.com Mr. Olsen?

I think Diesel might be premature on a shoot down, but unfortunately, I see your posts now as nothing more than FUD spinning. BTW, that is what is being said on certain private boards I frequent as well. I suggest rethinking what and how you make things public.

With respects,

Fischer
 
If by Rudyard Kipling

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream---and not make dreams your master;
If you can think---and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!


.
 
fischman be careful with your selective quotes .. I believe all who post here were treated with equal distain by the rational few on the company message board ... y'all are the truly dysfunctional who have to air here behind pseudonyms.
 
Last edited:
old*art said:
fischman be careful with your selective quotes .. I believe all who post here were treated with equal distain by the rational few on the company message board ... y'all are the truly dysfunctional who have to air here behind pseudonyms.
Click to expand...

If you'll notice, I posted my name.

Cast does not have access on the private boards or I'd be trading quotes and poems with him over there. I didn't have a dog in this fight until COT posted Diesel's name. Now I'm in it for fun.

Cast, if you would prefer to do it in private you should have my email in your computer still right?
 
Last edited:
Cast of Thousands,

Bertrand Russell:
Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.
​
 
Cast of Thousands,

The Litany Against Fear of the Bene Gesserit

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Dune by Frank Herbert
 
deleted
 
Last edited:
fischman said:
If you'll notice, I posted my name.

Cast does not have access on the private boards or I'd be trading quotes and poems with him over there. I didn't have a dog in this fight until COT posted Diesel's name. Now I'm in it for fun.

Cast, if you would prefer to do it in private you should have my email in your computer still right?
Click to expand...

I was taking note of your outrage for use of names through the first 10 pages of the thread...

I guess initials "BO" and a nickname "Dunner" (not the man's real name) are very different. I can see how one could cross the line and the other doesn't????

Once again, the issues are:
1) The economic landscape has [clearly] changed
2) Private aviation will need to adjust to the new marketplace
3) Washington is attacking private aviation [in policy and optics] and its customer base
4) Every operator in private aviation has seen significant reductions in flight demand
5) The marketplace is shrinking, yet a few operators will gain in relative market share through this downturn
6) The focus should be/must be on retaining and creating new pilot/aviation jobs
7) Tens of thousands of private aviation jobs have evaporated in 6 short months
8) The Crew Integration and Operational Excellence programs will do a lot to improve our operations and preserve jobs
9) The pilots have sound representation and are led by good people
10) The pilots need to engage the issues and participate at every level: DC, CMH, etc

and,
11) There is a big difference between "BO" and "Dunner" on FI????

Those are the points of the discussion. I hope we are done here.

Thanks,

.
 
Last edited:

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top