Netjets Domicile WARNING!!!! 4 wanna be's

[netjetwife]

I think you're right, DO. Isn't that why RS showed up with broom in hand? It might not be quite the image some of the pilots had when they were hoping he'd show up and rescue them from Boisture's "brainstorms", but a clean sweep often does wonders.

 

[h25b]

Never should have ratified a contract that didn't include home basing for everyone... End of story. New guys got screwed. Same old story, different union.

 

[be-400xpdriver]

Never should have ratified a contract that didn't include home basing for everyone... End of story. New guys got screwed. Same old story, different union.

They did not get screwed they just screwed themselves. If they dont like the contract dont work for netjets.

 

[G4dude]

Just curious...how large was the raise Santulli offered NJA several years ago?

 

[DO-82 driver]

G4...if memory serves me, the original $$$ was 75K for a 5year Captain.

 

[squonk]

DO-82 driver:

I have a feeling his legency at NetJets will not be fondly recorded.

Especially in Woodbridge! The arrogance with which he treated this pilot group gave us a resolve that I'm not sure we would have had otherwise.

There is some tribal knowledge that has been floating around since I've been here and I'm sure longer that said RTS made the statement after a contract "Yous guys could have held out for SOOOOO much more".

How ironic is it that now we can say, If RTS would have settled this four years ago we would have taken SOOOOO much less! Instead he brought in Moisture and the rest is history.

I'm sure Moistures mug is in the urinals in Woodbridge.

 

[Abbey]

Bubble,

I'm not sure if you realize it or not, but your post smacks of "I got mine, the rope is coming up." You sound like a bitter guy.


Archie

Ah, Lesson #1 from the book of ALPA.

Seriously though, if a pilot can't stand the NJA domicile system, don't apply to NetJets. If one can't stand the fact that a new hire at Delta has to be based in CVG, ATL, or SLC, don't blame the pilots on the roster for allowing the company to do so. Apply to Continental. Not having health insurance for your first 6 months of employment is what that jerk pilot group voted in for the newhires. Others may want to consider Southwest where one has to pony up $9K for a chance to interview. I am amazed that the current pilots at WN allow this abuse of people who might get hired.

Every place of employment has things that will work with some and things that won't.

 

[netjetwife]

Isn't there a provision in the airlines to allow a pilot to change hubs when their seniority enables them to bid into the one of their choice? NJ isn't paying moving expenses so what difference does it make to them if a pilot from the ranks takes the domicile being offered and the newhire is assigned to the one the other pilot left? Why deny the pilots the few choices that are available? I see that as an example of the disrespectful attitude that others have posted about.

The very nature of frac flying--planes left all over the place--makes me question the justification for the restrictive hiring and assigning of domiciles. Hub cities do work for the airlines, so the pilots can accept the system. I think part of the backlash against NJ's domicile policy is that pilots see it as being arbitrary and unfair. At least the airline pilots do fly in and out of the hub city they are required to show at. Frac pilots airlining out of a domicile to go pick up a plane in another location will have a hard time seeing the rationale behind such a system, especially when their counterparts are flying from airports near their homes. That legitimate complaint may begin to show up in poor morale and a high turn over rate. While I acknowledge that it's too soon to tell, I see the domicile policy at NJA as being penny wise and pound foolish.
NJW

 

[d91papa]

The very nature of frac flying--planes left all over the place--makes me question the justification for the restrictive hiring and assigning of domiciles. Hub cities do work for the airlines, so the pilots can accept the system. I think part of the backlash against NJ's domicile policy is that pilots see it as being arbitrary and unfair. At least the airline pilots do fly in and out of the hub city they are required to show at. Frac pilots airlining out of a domicile to go pick up a plane in another location will have a hard time seeing the rationale behind such a system, especially when their counterparts are flying from airports near their homes. That legitimate complaint may begin to show up in poor morale and a high turn over rate. While I acknowledge that it's too soon to tell, I see the domicile policy at NJA as being penny wise and pound foolish.
NJW[/quote]
Has there ever been some company statement explaining the rationale for the 5 domicile policy?

 

[popgoesbubble]

Archie
And I and everyone else that came before the contract could afford to work for $27 Grand? What ever dude I had to make a tough choice and take a $50K pay cut because I knew my airline would be tits up. Sorry didn't work for Cumair either. Lets talk about Cumair pilots sticking it to the ASA guys dring there contract negotiations. You guys swallowed to get more jets and then screwed your fellow Alpa brothers. My airline ACA screwed all FO's by not having a good pay scale for the Fo's those senior guys that on the page of shame didnt give a crap there response was eventually you'll all be captain here.

And now those same guys are here and bitching about not having HBA? Well my response is tough it out eventually you will have it!

 

[jetfo]

Cj -

I personally don't like the fact that they have to report to 1 of 5 domiciles to start work. I think it's short sighted and potentially a safety concern for NetJets overall. I'm just not sure how much the existing pilot force was willing to trade to make that go away.

I don't know, but I think that the 5 domiciles will go away. You have to position those a/c to too many places and have to airline the crews anyway. They'll figure out that it will work better for them to have the home basing and that it is an attractive recruitment tool to obtain experienced pilots.

 

[netjetwife]

Not that I'm aware of and it is fair to say that my husband is part of the inner circle. That is my reason for using the word "arbitrary". Not only was no explanation given to the pilotforce, but to my knowledge, there was no data collection, trial period,etc., testing the system before it was put in place. A computer whiz running numbers hardly counts as a real world test. That's also why I call it an experiment, and view it as extremely unfair to make such high demands of pilots and their families for a system whose value is questionable. Considering what NJA is asking of its newhires--living in expensive cities (or commuting to them) on low wages--it is only right that they justify the restrictions they are placing upon the pilots.

I know full well that some will say it is their right and that the pilots don't have to take the job. My response is that smart managers know they get more from a workforce that is treated respectfully. When pilots keep turning down a job based on one reason alone, that should be an indication that there is a problem with that particular job requirement. I personally think the system could very well be doomed to failure, or not ever meet the expectations they had for it, and I think it's wrong to make the employees bear the brunt of their short-sighted thinking. If the domicile system is so much better than HBAs then why isn't it used at NJI where there isn't a contract that would prevent it from being used?

 

[jetfo]

If the domicile system is so much better than HBAs then why isn't it used at NJI where there isn't a contract that would prevent it from being used?

Good point!

 

[netjetwife]

Pop, my husband is advising newhires that it could be 8 yrs before they can get into the HBA system. I see that as a lot of sacrifice for a benefit that has yet to be proven. I don't think it's wise or fair for a company to treat its workers in such a fundamentally different way.

 

[DC3PLT1]

Just Curious,

What is HBA??

 

[RustyFan]

The very nature of frac flying--planes left all over the place--makes me question the justification for the restrictive hiring and assigning of domiciles.

I think part of the backlash against NJ's domicile policy is that pilots see it as being arbitrary and unfair. That legitimate complaint may begin to show up in poor morale and a high turn over rate. NJW

Your so full of crap Lady its coming out both your ears. Guess what... quit your bitching because your husband voted for exactly whats in place now. I cant believe this contract isn't even a year old and your already crying again. If the pilots dont like what the deal is, tuff! They voted for it, period.

You make me sick! Your constantly on here crying the blues, yet when the company goes out of the way to get your husband home in 12 hours because your bohoo-ing about some "family" problem... you seem to forget about that.

Unions = Cry Babies!

 

[RustyFan]

Not that I'm aware of and it is fair to say that my husband is part of the inner circle.

Translation:

Attention all NJA pilots,

"ALL PILOTS ARE EQUAL, SOME PILOTS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS."

Once again you've proven what I've known for 30 years, unions do what they "think" is best for those who dont know what is best for themselves.

 

[Pervis]

Netjets is not shortsighted. They know very well that the new domicile system has no real savings. Jets still end up in the variety of locations throughout the world. They also know very well that it is a major issue to both pre and post CBA pilots. They have positioned themselves for future bargaining. What can they get in return for giving us all the gateway system or worse yet, what concessions can they get before the next CBA? Or are they simply applying more basic union busting tactics to drive a wedge between the pilot group?

Whatever the case, it is what it is. We voted for it, and although it is a pain for new hires, it is but a small sacrifice when compared to the vast improvements in the overall document.

 

[AirBear8]

Just Curious,

What is HBA??

Home Based Airport. For NJA pilots hired prior to the new contract taking effect on 11-21-05. There has to be a certain level of year-round airline service to specfied hubs for NJA ops for an airport to qualify as a HBA. There's probably a few hundred airports that meet the critieria thou.

AirBear

 

[Archie Bunker]

Archie
And I and everyone else that came before the contract could afford to work for $27 Grand?

Well, evidently.......yes, I guess you could, or you wouldn't have accepted the job. Why else would you accept a job that payed a wage that couldn't support your lifestyle?

What ever dude I had to make a tough choice and take a $50K pay cut because I knew my airline would be tits up. Sorry didn't work for Cumair either. Lets talk about Cumair pilots sticking it to the ASA guys dring there contract negotiations. You guys swallowed to get more jets and then screwed your fellow Alpa brothers. My airline ACA screwed all FO's by not having a good pay scale for the Fo's those senior guys that on the page of shame didnt give a crap there response was eventually you'll all be captain here.

OK DUDE, but what the h e l l are you talking about? I never flew for Comair, or any other regional. What is your point? Are you mad because you took a paycut to come here? Are you angry because a few new guys have the nerve to complain about the domicile system? Jesus, lighten up.

And now those same guys are here and bitching about not having HBA? Well my response is tough it out eventually you will have it!

What guys are you talking about? So what if some guys are complaining about the domicile system. Try acting like a team player, and tell them that we're going to try and get HBA on the next contract, and leave it at that. You must be a real pleasure to fly with for 7 days.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Hey Crusty....why don't you back off of NJW. She didn't vote for the NJA CBA....I did, along with 2200 other pilots.

She is just pointing out the follies a program that NJA Senior Management insisted on. The Union negotiators never liked the Domicile program.....This was the brainstorm of our crack management team....which, by the way, is no longer employed by NJA.

This ratical, cost cutting plan that was suppose to save millions of dollars is only going to prevent highly qualified individuals from coming to NJA for a career. Yet, pilots at these domiciles are still airlining out of their domiciles to other airports in order to pick up their planes.

Why don't you criticise them?

Why don't you mention the possitives that this new CBA brought to ALL NJA pilots?

This CBA may not be perfect, but its a hell of a lot better than any other set of work rules,written or unwritten, in the entire industry.

Heck...even you will benefit from our CBA.

 

[RustyFan]

Hey Crusty....why don't you back off of NJW. She didn't vote for the NJA CBA But she sure likes running her mouth about it!....I did, along with 2200 other pilots.

She is just pointing out the follies a program that NJA Senior Management insisted on. The Union negotiators never liked the Domicile program..... Then why did they agree to it, and then send it to the pilots for ratification? If you didn’t like it, you should have stuck to your guns and voted it down, but you didn’t, because you money loving fools got a few hundreds waived in your face, and you said screw the new guys. This was the brainstorm of our crack management team....which, by the way, is no longer employed by NJA. Which, by the way you signed off on by accepting it and now are constantly complaining about it.

This radical, cost cutting plan that was suppose to save millions of dollars is only going to prevent highly qualified individuals from coming to NJA for a career. Oh, so now you run the company and you need to decide who works at NetJets? Don’t you want us old crusty airline farts anymore? Yet, pilots at these domiciles are still airlining out of their domiciles to other airports in order to pick up their planes. So what, are you more qualified to run the daily operation? Quit flying and go work in the fish tank there “Big Man on Campus”

Why don't you criticize them? I do when they deserve it.

Why don't you mention the positives that this new CBA brought to ALL NJA pilots? Funny you mentioned that, all I ever hear is constant, nonstop crying and bitching from you whiners about everything from “why cant I pick my own salad dressing now on these stupid crew meals” to “why cant we fly the Gulfstreams”.

This CBA may not be perfect, but it’s a hell of a lot better than any other set of work rules, written or unwritten, in the entire industry.

Heck...even you will benefit from our CBA. Doubt that.


PS. I corrected your 5 misspelled words for you there Chucky Cheese… It takes 10 seconds to do a spell check.

 

[DO-82 driver]

You know something Crusty....As I sit here in TEB reading your post we all kind of find it funny that you seem to know what we NJA guys are all thinking. I bet you've never even sat down and chatted with any of us.

Of course you'll say you have.

Even some of your own crew members can't believe some of the posts you've written. A good laugh for all.

For the most part, we are very happy with our CBA and with our Union representation. Its not perfect but nothing is.

This board is not representative of the pilots at NJA just as you are certainly not representative of the good pilots at NJI. For this fact I am truely grateful.

If you believe this venue speaks on behalf of our pilot force then you probably get your world news from the National Enquirer.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FWIW - the loss of HBA is the reason I'm not applying at NJA. Just can't do those bases for that pay.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Hopefully, NJA will realize this and change the policy before its too late.

Or they may hang on to it and use it as a bargaining tool in 4 years.

 

[Ultra Grump]

...a few hundreds waved in your face...

PS. I corrected your 5 misspelled words for you there Chucky Cheese… It takes 10 seconds to do a spell check.

ps: I corrected yours. Instead of relying on spell-check, you might want to learn how to spell. People who live in glass houses...

 

[cjdriver]

Whoa

Rusty, you kiss your mom with that mouth? "Your so full of crap Lady". Sheez.

 

[Hawker dude]

FWIW - the loss of HBA is the reason I'm not applying at NJA. Just can't do those bases for that pay.

I was in CMH last week, NJA still has no problem getting pilots to come to class.

 

[Cavpilot]

I think a lot of you are missing the point about how the Domicile system found its way into the CBA. Scheduling and Domiciles were the company's number one issues. If we as a pilot group wanted HBAs for all, it would have cost us our number one issue, pay. The company's dream was to have everyone on a domicile, that wasn't going to happen so we ended up with the compromise of grandfathered HBAs.
I for one don't believe that the company will ever offer home basing to entice qualified applicants. As it stands right now, they have a whole room full of resumes of guys that want to be here. If there is ever a lack of qualified applicants the company will merely open more domiciles.
BTW, I don't give a rip if NJI has home basing for all of its pilots. How many people do you think would go to work there if SAV was the only domicile? Would you be willing to give up, overtime, per diem, holiday pay, and union protection just so you could have home basing? Not me.

 

[Wacopilot]

It's not the domicile thing

As a newhire, the domicile thing is not that big of a deal. If you are from 121 you are used to it. The big issue for me is trying to get something in the CBA allowing transfer to different domiciles. Even if there is a lock, like the aircraft lock. Say, after two years you can bid available slots in a different base. Just food for thought. When we came to NJA, we new the domicile thing was here to stay.

Waco