Netjets Domicile WARNING!!!! 4 wanna be's

[Wacopilot]

Read the contract

I was reading the contract and it says something to the fact that all domiciles will be staffed in seinority order. In my last contract it said virtually the same thing which meant if you can hold a base with your seinority, you could go there.....if there were spots being offered. This means that if the union goes after this there is a case as long and new bids for airframe/domiciles keep being posted. Just food for thought.

Waco

 

[DO-82 driver]

Waco......13.2(b)(i)...pretty clear...Post-ratification.....you're at the Domicile you were hired into. There is no provision for new hires to change domiciles.

Now....Seniority rights, 5.2, might come into play but I think this discussion has been raised and the Union "Powers" have indicated that the negotiating note still indicate that new hires are stuck where they are until the new contract.

 

[Wacopilot]

I'm fine with the domicile thing....been doing it for 8 years....however the senority issue is where to start if there are to be changes..... perhaps take the angle of aircraft/type change.... After 2 years you can change fleets, and perhaps you can change domiciles.. It costs the company 0$ to do it that way. Just food for thought... but you are correct, there should be no expectation of changing domiciles.

Waco

 

[DO-82 driver]

Waco....Like someone posted on the Union web site.....why should the Company give us something we want NOW when they can use it as a bargaining chip in the future.

"DO THE RIGHT THING" ... a nice little phrase......but I doubt it will be followed.

We voted in the CBA and we are just going to have to live by its terms....even if it means highly qualified pilots going somewhere else becasue of the domicile issue.

 

[netjetwife]

Waco, has brought up a good point. I first heard it from my husband. The company is aware of that "glitch" now, but I think they may be planning to cross that particular bridge when they come to it. Perhaps all it may take to force the issue is the right situation and a complaining pilot whose seniority rights have been violated. The union was created to protect the rights of the pilots, after all.

Perhaps in their excitement (haste ) to get a contract written (before the holidays??), some conflicting provisions were overlooked. If the company needs a pilot in a certain domicile what difference does it make to them if that pilot comes from those hired previously and the new hire is sent to the now open domicile slot? As Waco said, it costs them nothing, but could make a huge difference in the QOL of the affected pilot. Why be against something like that? It looks like a straightforward fairness issue to me. Isn't there a chance that a moderator hearing a grievance will see it the same way?
NJW

 

[swampfan]

HBA/Domicile Change Form

FWIW...There is a HBA/Domicile Change Form on Crewops (under Bidding:forms) that can be used to request a domicile change. There has been a post-ratification newhire domicile change using this form. I know of only one, but it has been approved at least once.

 

[Wacopilot]

Remember Folks, All great contracts only become great when accompanied by numerous letters of agreement (LOA's)....... The fun has just begun.

Waco

 

[Black Hawk]

How does this domicile lock (forever) save the company money? It's pretty common place for pilots to select a company with a base near home and not expect to get it initially but work their way into it with seniority. If that can't happen they stand to lose some good, stable applicants that might stick around long term if they could see a brighter future down the road. I don't get this one.

 

[netjetwife]

A lot of us don't get it, Black Hawk. To add to the confusion, the system was the brainchild of an executive who has moved on already. So the company's degree of dedication to the concept is also a mystery. The form on the website is a good sign, I think. Ditto for the case--albeit only one, so far--that has been approved. I think that part of the problem is the animosity that had built up during the long, drawn-out contract battle. Those things that help the pilots through little effort on the company's part are slow to be considered, it seems, just because the "enemy" is making the request. Hoping that that view is a tad jaded, I could also venture a guess that they've been preoccupied with the transition to the new CBA and their plans to redo the training department. Perhaps in time, and with more requests, they'll see the light and realize that reducing the stress (commuting) facing the pilots will have positive repercussions for all involved.

My sympathy to all those pilots and their families that are negatively impacted by this ill-conceived and unfairly applied experiment.
Netjetwife

 

[old*art]

The author of this program is still there. He is a blonde headed bespectacled kid from Holland who is the computer whiz at CMH who has proven with his computer that the domiciles/RCOs/ whatever will save the company tons of money. For awhile he was speaking at recurrent about it. He has never flown a tour with anyone I am sure, but his results are what is driving this program. Until real world sets in and it is shown to be impractical or he moves on, the powers that be will ride this pony to the end.

 

[popgoesbubble]

These same guys that are complaining about not having HBA are the same guys I ran into at my old airline that doesnt exist anymore but were saying they wouldn't leave to go to NJA since there pay sucked! Yeah I did know that I was gonna take a 50% pay cut coming here, but I also new thru research and talking with other NJA pilots that our union leadership was striong and it was only a matter of time before a new contract was signed.

It was also well known to the slightly informed outsider that any pilot hired after the contract would not get home basing. I have no pitty for these guys they played a game of chicken they were all trying to see if they could ride there old jobs til the last second not have to come here when the pay was low and then get in just before the contract and get home basing and a good pay check and they lost. Why should our Union have gone out of its way to protect these individuals that were not even on property when we were negotiating our new contract. tell me one airline that has signed a new contract that went out to protect pilots that havent been hired yet or havent applied yet to there company.

 

[Archie Bunker]

It was also well known to the slightly informed outsider that any pilot hired after the contract would not get home basing. I have no pitty for these guys they played a game of chicken they were all trying to see if they could ride there old jobs til the last second not have to come here when the pay was low and then get in just before the contract and get home basing and a good pay check and they lost. Why should our Union have gone out of its way to protect these individuals that were not even on property when we were negotiating our new contract. tell me one airline that has signed a new contract that went out to protect pilots that havent been hired yet or havent applied yet to there company.

Bubble,

I'm not sure if you realize it or not, but your post smacks of "I got mine, the rope is coming up." You sound like a bitter guy.

I'm sure that many pilots (myself included) wanted to apply to NJA last year, but could not make it work for $27K a year. The great work that the IBT did during negotiations made NJA a place that many would now love to work, domiciles or not. I knew what I signed up for, with reference to the domicile situation, and I'm certainly not looking for your pity.

While I am now one of those newbies under the domicile system, and it really doesn't cause me any headache (LAX is only a 2 hour drive for me), it would be nice to hope for HBA sometime in the future (maybe the next contract) in order to turn that drive into 10 minutes. Whether you like it or not, the list of pilots under the new domicile system is growing with every new-hire class. We are all members of the IBT 1108 too, and I can guarantee you that HBA will be a major issue when negotiations for the new contract start in a couple of years.

We're all in this together, and I don't particularly care for your attitude of "screw the junior guys, they knew what they were getting into when they were hired." Why don't you just let the new guy vent a little, then tell him: "Yeah, I hear you. The new contract is good, not perfect, and we're going to work real hard on getting HBA for everyone the next time around." How easy is that?

As for your question asking what airline went out of its way to protect individuals not on the property yet.....how about NJA? The IBT folks negotiated starting pay to be raised from $27k to $46K a year. How's that for looking out for the new guy?

While the domicile system isn't ideal for everybody, it looks like we're stuck with it until either we get a new contract, or NJA can't attract enough new pilots that would be willing to move in the vicinity of the 5 new cities. Until then, try being a little more supportive of your new IBT brothers and sisters.

Archie

 

[cjdriver]

Bought your job?

Bubble, you sound like a guy I used to fly with that bought his job at Comair, and then was bitter that some pilots didn't have to do that. Is that the case with you? While he came from a wealthy family and could afford to do so, some guys weren't able to and had to work the crap jobs to make it. You sound like you've picked out a very narrow pilot group, (that which was waiting for Netjets to get a decent contract in place before signing up), to justify the inequity in the contract. I would imagine the reality is most new hires don't fit into that pilot group, and don't deserve the recriminations you're heaping on them. Also, just because most union contracts treat new hires poorly, doesn't make it right does it?

 

[netjetwife]

The author of this program is still there. He is a blonde headed bespectacled kid from Holland who is the computer whiz at CMH who has proven with his computer that the domiciles/RCOs/ whatever will save the company tons of money. For awhile he was speaking at recurrent about it. He has never flown a tour with anyone I am sure, but his results are what is driving this program. Until real world sets in and it is shown to be impractical or he moves on, the powers that be will ride this pony to the end.

Thanks for additional information, Old. I was referring to Bill Boisture. It was my understanding that he was the one in management pushing the Domicile Debacle. Too often there is a tendency to only look at the bottom line and leave out the intangibles like workforce morale that can wind more expensive in the long run through sick days, attrition, etc. If the system could really save so much money, why wasn't NJI using it? Seems to me that frac pilots wind up all over the place, not just those 5 cities. Your point about the computer whiz not seeing the actual flying is very valid.

CJ, I think that it's management that causes the disparity in the treatment of the pilot force. It, certainly wasn't the union that came up with the domicile plan. And I know that some StrongUnion volunteers spent a lot of time on pay proposals--research, charts, number crunching, etc--to get the FOs better wages. Two years ago, NJ pilots that were eligible for bids held off so that it'd go way junior and they could get a lot of FOs bumped up to Captain's pay. My husband was one of the 118 pilots that benefited from the unity shown by more senior pilots. Again, my thanks to those pilots. It might be uncommon in your experience, but it does happen. 1108 should be judged by their own track record, not what other Locals do.

 

[DO-82 driver]

The "Domicile" brainstorm of Bill Boisture wasn't the only great idea this man has had.

Ask the folks at Gulfstream of the Bill Boisture plans that nearly ruined them.

Ask the people at Butler/Signature Aviation about the plans Bill Boisture implemented there.

He's not on alot of peoples' Christmas Card list.

I have a feeling his legency at NetJets will not be fondly recorded.