Netjets Ain Article

[Diesel]

Jesus turbine you really are a stupid man.

You think we have all that support at bridgeway because we are union? You think we have crew meals because we are union? If you do you really don't understand how this industry works.

We have Dispatch because or schedule changes constantly. We do 5 legs a day with hour turns. So you plan your whole day with your job. Things don't change and you can make it work. Our day changes 5-6 times a day.

Crew food- You realize with our schedule we just don't hop in a cab and drive off to applebees. 90 percent of my lunch is spent at 45000 feet eating between the yoke. The other 10 percent I'm wolfing it down while the pax are showing up.

I'll put up my qualifications and work ethics against anyone here. Especially you. The union doesn't breed lazyness that's just the perception you have. It gives us one voice to talk to the company.

I choose fractional because I like the stability and the schedule. I've had my planes sold when the boss is getting a divorce or the stock market had a down turn. I've lost my closest friend on a dark moonless night coming home. I've been there I've done that.

So how dare you compare our industry and my work ethic because of some sort of affiliation with a union. You don't know my past and you sure don't know what i've done to get here. Which i'm very proud of.

Of course if you have the nuts you can pm me with your number and i'll be more than happy to further this discussion.

 

[buttercup]

The argument can be made that anyone that is a pilot in todays world has limited self-worth!! For all the corporate guys bragging about making 125K a year who think that is good money to live on a pager 24/7 is a joke. Fractional guys.. well we won't even go there. Even Major airlines guys with pay concessions, making 150k a year to fly around 160 passengers is chump change..The smart guys will soon leave this industry. The one's with self-worth are dabbling in other industries, and have many things working for them on the side. It's the folks who are just happy to be flying a jet and breathe aviation 24/7 that you have to look out for.

 

[400A]

The argument can be made that anyone that is a pilot in todays world has limited self-worth!! For all the corporate guys bragging about making 125K a year who think that is good money to live on a pager 24/7 is a joke. Fractional guys.. well we won't even go there. Even Major airlines guys with pay concessions, making 150k a year to fly around 160 passengers is chump change..The smart guys will soon leave this industry. The one's with self-worth are dabbling in other industries, and have many things working for them on the side. It's the folks who are just happy to be flying a jet and breathe aviation 24/7 that you have to look out for.

AS, you have a very warped since of reality.

Based on your own comments made with lack of forethought or evidence, I would like you to look up the latest figures and see what percentage of the US population earn a six figure salary.

I dont think it is us having a lack of self worth that is a problem here, I think you have a very over inflated self worth and are an ego driven individual.

How much do you think you can HONESTLY go out and earn in the business world. Keep in mind that you will not start as CEO as you seem to think you would.

And as far as you needing to look out for me because I am happy flying a jet, as if I am some kind of cut throat individual, then maybe like Diesel mentioned, we can sort this out behind the wood shed.

No one on this threat had a problem with NJ pilots pushing for the much deserved raise, the point of this whole thread has been that Charter pilots should not be listed as scabs for doing our jobs. Now if anyone even goes to an interview while a strike is on, then they are infact SCABS.

Get over yourself!

 

[buttercup]

AS, you have a very warped since of reality.

Based on your own comments made with lack of forethought or evidence, I would like you to look up the latest figures and see what percentage of the US population earn a six figure salary.

I dont think it is us having a lack of self worth that is a problem here, I think you have a very over inflated self worth and are an ego driven individual.

How much do you think you can HONESTLY go out and earn in the business world. Keep in mind that you will not start as CEO as you seem to think you would.

And as far as you needing to look out for me because I am happy flying a jet, as if I am some kind of cut throat individual, then maybe like Diesel mentioned, we can sort this out behind the wood shed.

No one on this threat had a problem with NJ pilots pushing for the much deserved raise, the point of this whole thread has been that Charter pilots should not be listed as scabs for doing our jobs. Now if anyone even goes to an interview while a strike is on, then they are infact SCABS.

Get over yourself!

Get over myself BBWWAAHHH!!! Excuse me Mr. Chief Pilot!! It seems that by putting that in your avatar you are the one who is egotistical. Please don't tell me about warped sense of reality, my reality is fine. That reality is that I don't understand why pilots think it is a sin to enjoy their' work and get paid a respectable wage. Why are you comparing yourself to the rest of the population? The average persons job doesn't entail the responsibility that a pilots does. As for my comments, yes, they aren't scientific but have been my observation. I know how much I can go make in the business world. I wouldn't say that amount here because I am not egotistical, and it really is irrelevant. If you even give a sh*t you can ask Diesel he knows the deal. I really liked the part about meeting me behind a wood shed, what are you two years old GROW UP!! Who said anything about charter pilots being scabs? Please don't talk to me about scabs. I have been on strike before, have you? Nonetheless, despite all of this I wish you well. I hope that you accomplish all that you want in your life and in this industry. I know that my reality if the pay and quality of life issues don't change for the better in this industry, is a six figure salary working out of my home sleeping in my own bed everynight and enjoying what I do. I will then fly on my own terms..not someone elses!!

 

[NJA Capt]

Yak,

To use your own quote:

If such statements are indicative of your brainpower, then frankly, you're doomed.

…your notion that Corporate pilots' availablility and work is limited to a M-F 40hr work week/ 2000 hr. work year. …of course, completely ludicrous.

Sir, what is truly ludicrous, is your post.
I purposefully used as few words as possible to NOT be misunderstood. I did not, write, nor imply, that the 40 hour week was that of a corporate pilot. You interpreted that yourself, then proceeded to post based on your misunderstanding.

The 40 hour week is a common data point that we both may refer to. I do NOT know what ever corp pilot schedule is, just as you have no clue what mine is. We can however, compare our respective schedules to one common point, ie…a normal person’s 40 hour week.

 

[400A]

Get over myself BBWWAAHHH!!! Excuse me Mr. Chief Pilot!! It seems that by putting that in your avatar you are the one who is egotistical. Please don't tell me about warped sense of reality, my reality is fine. That reality is that I don't understand why pilots think it is a sin to enjoy their' work and get paid a respectable wage. Why are you comparing yourself to the rest of the population? The average persons job doesn't entail the responsibility that a pilots does. As for my comments, yes, they aren't scientific but have been my observation. I know how much I can go make in the business world. I wouldn't say that amount here because I am not egotistical, and it really is irrelevant. If you even give a sh*t you can ask Diesel he knows the deal. I really liked the part about meeting me behind a wood shed, what are you two years old GROW UP!! Who said anything about charter pilots being scabs? Please don't talk to me about scabs. I have been on strike before, have you? Nonetheless, despite all of this I wish you well. I hope that you accomplish all that you want in your life and in this industry. I know that my reality if the pay and quality of life issues don't change for the better in this industry, is a six figure salary working out of my home sleeping in my own bed everynight and enjoying what I do. I will then fly on my own terms..not someone elses!!

My avatar is not egotistical. I simply answered the guestion on the form. I am sorry that you are offended or scared by that.

You idiot, this whole thread has been about the threat of NJ labeling charter pilots on a SCAB list.

And as far as being familiar with a strike, you have know clue my friend, probably more so than you could ever imagine. dont even go there.

Unlike you, I am very happy in my position in life, YOU are the one that came on and called us WARPED. And who made you GOD of what a respectable wage is. Yes. I bet you do everything on your own terms, no matter what co-workers pay the price.

 

[400A]

Profile

There ya go AS, I took it off so you would not be scared by it anymore. That Title was assigned by the company, I really could not care less what my title is. The two I am most proud of are " Dad" and "Coach".

I answered that question on my profile before I knew it would be used by people like you as an attack. Just like some often attack because they fly a bigger airplane

 

[buttercup]

There ya go AS, I took it off so you would not be scared by it anymore. That Title was assigned by the company, I really could not care less what my title is. The two I am most proud of are " Dad" and "Coach".

I answered that question on my profile before I knew it would be used by people like you as an attack. Just like some often attack because they fly a bigger airplane

Congratulations to you on being a Dad and a Coach!! I truly admire that you have your priorities right in life.. So do I.. That's why if things don't change for the better in this industry, I will gladly walk away. I don't have a family now but I look forward to it one day. I see the toll the job takes on men who are away from their families so much, for so little compensation. That won't happen to me.. That's why I've struck before and will gladly go it again. I fly for a living, I don't live to fly.. This is a job, not a hobby!!

 

[400A]

Maybe we have more in common than we thought. That is one of the reasons I like my job so much. We do 2-3 RON's per month. I will say however that most executives (as NJOWNER has mentioned) that earn more than we do are also gone from their families (traveling or at the office) as much or more than many pilots.

People like to poke fun at the Beechjet, but one of the reasons I stay on it, is because I am home so much. I was a young father, so I will persue the big Iron when they are off to college. Then of course I will need the big Iron bucks. LOL

For now we are paid in the upper end of the pro-pilot survey (like the NJ guys should be) and are working conditions are awesome.

 

[semperfido]

i liked it better when you were at each others throats

 

[CatYaaak]

Yak,

To use your own quote:

If such statements are indicative of your brainpower, then frankly, you're doomed.


Sir, what is truly ludicrous, is your post.
I purposefully used as few words as possible to NOT be misunderstood. I did not, write, nor imply, that the 40 hour week was that of a corporate pilot. You interpreted that yourself, then proceeded to post based on your misunderstanding.

The 40 hour week is a common data point that we both may refer to. I do NOT know what ever corp pilot schedule is, just as you have no clue what mine is. We can however, compare our respective schedules to one common point, ie…a normal person’s 40 hour week.

Well, excuse me for not picking up on your stunning display of complete, total illogic when you veered off into the realm of irrelevancy and compared yourself to a 40 hr. workweek..something practically no pilot ever works. The issue at hand, of course, was YOUR union leadership...ASAP...comparing JetJets pilots' productivity to NBAA (read; corporate) salary averages in it's statement, which was the subject of the whole discussion and point of comparison. Yes, I must be an idiot....for assuming you could focus on the subject. And you say I meander?

But now that you've compared yourself to secretaries and insurance salesmen (for what reason, who knows), what's next?....perhaps the work schedule of dolphin tank dolphins? I do know by now you won't say anything to back up ASAP's claim, because it's nothing more than ignorant, union pablum that sounds good to the rank and file, but easily disproven because it's based on the idiotic premise that "productivity" in corporate aviation is based simply on hours flown per year, and nothing more. That screams ignorance.

Here's a little irony for you to pass along to whatever genius wrote that stupid apples-to-oranges claim; If "productivity" is measured in simply hours flown per year (as the claim infers), and a company needs crews or airplanes as much as an individual NetJets pilots or aircraft flies, they don't need NetJets at all. In fact, you'd make absolutely no economic sense to them. Even at your current low wages, your frac model is too expensive compared to operating their own department and equipment and hiring their own crews at NBAA salaries for that level of use.

But I sure hope you can follow a line on a taxiway or approach plate better than you can follow a line of debate. Of course, you union devotees aren't used to being disagreed with no matter what your leadership spews, let alone put forth facts to support it. It's all about parotting the same thing over and over and ever more loudly. That's all well and good...it's your house and you can trash it if you want...but only to the point you begin to leak your spewage into the real world by making ludicrous comparisons and arbitrary scablist threats. When that occurs, expect to be challenged.

 

[Live4flyng]

Hey Cat,

Do you have to work at being a D!ck, or does it come naturally? Tell us the real reason why you hate Netjets err.... "JetJets" so much.

If "productivity" is measured in simply hours flown per year (as the claim infers), and a company needs crews or airplanes as much as an individual NetJets pilots or aircraft flies, they don't need NetJets at all. In fact, you'd make absolutely no economic sense to them. Even at your current low wages, your frac model is too expensive compared to operating their own department and equipment and hiring their own crews at NBAA salaries for that level of use.

You must be wrong, or Netjets wouldn't exist. It's all about supply and demand. Obviously there is a huge demand for the "expensive" Netjets model. Please tell us old wise one how you can put a price tag on safety. It must not be as expensive as you claim, please make some economic sense for us already!

 

[CatYaaak]

Hey Cat,

Do you have to work at being a D!ck, or does it come naturally? Tell us the real reason why you hate Netjets err.... "JetJets" so much.

You must be wrong, or Netjets wouldn't exist. It's all about supply and demand. Obviously there is a huge demand for the "expensive" Netjets model. Please tell us old wise one how you can put a price tag on safety. It must not be as expensive as you claim, please make some economic sense for us already!

Before you begin to sound a lot more foolish, you should learn just what part of the business aviation market you cater to in terms of a company's travel requirements, and why very few outside that niche need or want you. For them, you DON"T make economic sense. The numbers speak for themselves and if you don't know them it's strictly your own fault.. they are well known, and don't vary much by anyone's accounting, that accounting being done by many who's business it is to account. On the high side of that use requirement (the number of hours in a year equivalent to what a NetJets pilot typically works), shares that are purchased are usually for supplemental lift purposes only for their own departments....not as a replacement. I'd hate to think that if you work there you haven't bothered to learn this most basic thing about your company.

Not sure what you're getting at with the "can't put a price tag on safety" issue. Is NetJets now claiming they offer a higher standard of safety than one's own flight department? You know, somehow that wouldn't suprise me either, cuz we've heard just about everything. It's useless to quibble about accident/incident rates frac vs. corporate....the numbers are so low for both even one event skews them.

Of course, there's many flight departments who operate squarely in the niche where fracs do make economic sense, but they opt to keep everthing in-house for the much higher level of security and operational control. Those two factors are an integral part of any safety equation and the frac system can't match a well-run in-house department in that regard. That's just the nature of things, but for many companies it trumps all other considerations, the higher relative costs notwithstanding.

 

[Live4flyng]

Before you begin to sound a lot more foolish, you should learn just what part of the business aviation market you cater to in terms of a company's travel requirements

I believe you are the one that needs to learn this.

The numbers speak for themselves and if you don't know them it's strictly your own fault.. they are well known, and don't vary much by anyone's accounting, that accounting being done by many who's business it is to account.

Who is this, President Clinton? So many words coming from you all the time with very little content.

On the high side of that use requirement (the number of hours in a year equivalent to what a NetJets pilot typically works), shares that are purchased are usually for supplemental lift purposes only for their own departments....not as a replacement.

Please explain what the use requirement has to do with the number of hours a Netjets pilot works. I thought we were discussing the fractional business model, not pilot flight/duty hours. As far as the supplemental lift comment, you are about 10 years behind in current events. Keep talking though, your ignorance is really showing.

It's useless to quibble about accident/incident rates frac vs. corporate....the numbers are so low for both even one event skews them./QUOTE] I agree with this statement. If you compare 91 to 135, the numbers tell a different story.

 

[CatYaaak]

I believe you are the one that needs to learn this.

Who is this, President Clinton? So many words coming from you all the time with very little content.

Please explain what the use requirement has to do with the number of hours a Netjets pilot works. I thought we were discussing the fractional business model, not pilot flight/duty hours. As far as the supplemental lift comment, you are about 10 years behind in current events. Keep talking though, your ignorance is really showing.
I agree with this statement. If you compare 91 to 135, the numbers tell a different story.

I don't compare 91 to 135..nobody lumps them together. Outside a handful of a few departments, my "supplemental lift" comments are accurate, and we were dicussing "productivity compared to NBAA companies" because ASAP brings it up and makes claims. For an answer to your other replies, see my post on the other thread.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

Back to the SCAB Debate

I for one could care less if the Teamster's decide to call me a scab. BFD. The place is run by a bunch of thugs and I am frankly surprised that a group of professionals would have anything to do with them. That being said, threatening to call me a scab because I carry a passenger that is a customer of Netjets is so unbelieveably ridiculous that it just makes me chuckle.

I guess you are going to track them and tag the JetBlue crew scabs as well if they fly them home when you strand them? Or Delta or whoever? Makes little sense. I would guess if you succeed in your quest and run NetJets out of business, then the very places you will you be looking for jobs will be chock full of scabs, and I would bet that a fairly good number of you will be hired by a scab.

If that happens, what will you do? You may very well find yourself working for a scab. What does a Teamster do then? I am really curious, would your strong sense of unity allow you to do it? Would you be selling out your brethren if you did?

Maybe these are questions that your wise and seasoned MEC might answer for you before they decide to start hanging monikers on people that have never set foot in a NetJets cockpit.

Your real problem is that you took people at their word and they let you down. Now that they have, you continue to stay saying yessuh boss rather than voting with your feet, much to the detriment of pilots at your company and everywhere else. Good luck with your struggle with management. I would try to find ways to keep the customer's insulated from the problems.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Good points FLY,

That is a good question:

If NetJets pays to have one of their passengers fly on xyz charter, is that crew scabs?

If NetJets pays to have one of their passengers fly on United, is that crew scabs?

Where's the logic?

Ace

 

[Diesel]

FLY FLY FLY must have just watched the movie hoffa. Way to go bud.

Just remember that IF we go on strike it's not just the pilots not showing up to work. It's the supplies from every trucker in the country. It's the overnight packages for parts on UPS. The list goes on and on.

Oh yeah and I forgot places like signature boston will all of a sudden have a lapse of memory on who needs to be fueled out on the ramp.

I'm sure catyaak and publishers will chime in here with their mindless dribble.

 

[h25b]

Where's the logic?

Ace

The question that eludes us all...

Simple answer:

There is no logic to it. Pure ignorance sprinkled in with a little desperation (or maybe the other way around).

signature boston will all of a sudden have a lapse of memory on who needs to be fueled out on the ramp.

What would make this different from any other day at Signature... ??? ... Like the world needs another reason to avoid Signature BOS... Please don't scare us...

Talk about mindless dribble !!!

 

[Diesel]

I was just pointing out that signature boston is going to have trouble fueling us. None of the fuelers will do it.

Of course i'll be enjoying my summer off. 3 months on bidable vacation. Looking forward to it.