Netjets Ain Article

[prpjt]

Here is possibly the most difficult area to address. 135 vendors and other corporate depts. Vendor's pilots will be forced to decide if they will accept a Netjets subcontracted flight. .

In 2001, when I was doing some part time charter work, we did some work for various fracs. I don't recall seeing the name of the fractional provider anywhere on my paperwork. The release and manifest just stated Dr. Brown or Mrs. Jones. Sometimes it was Dr. Brown and Mrs. Jones, and Mrs. Brown was calling to find out where her husband was, but that's for another thread. You get the idea.

Do those of you who currently fly 135 always know if the trip is to cover for a frac?

 

[400A]

sometimes

We can sometimes tell if it is a fractional. If it has passed through a couple of brokers it becomes cloudy though.

 

[rice]

Time to Get Off the Pipe!!!!!

There are many difficult days ahead for everyone associated with fractional flying....135 guys, owners, NJA employees will all be faced with decisions that no one had seen coming 5 years ago...

So a brief summary....


Here is possibly the most difficult area to address. 135 vendors and other corporate depts. Vendor's pilots will be forced to decide if they will accept a Netjets subcontracted flight. That is one in which their employer is contacted by Netjets to provide transportation. Not one in which a Netjets owner charters directly from them. I totally empathize with how difficult it may be to support a Netjets Pilot action. What you are faced with is the likelyhood that if you refuse to fly a charter you will be terminated. But there are ways around this. The so called gray areas, maint, wx etc... But what have you to gain by supporting a Netjets job action? Possibly the new bar being set for all 135 and corporate operators. My feeling is that this is a possibilty that is worth supporting.

Ghost,
Really man, PUT THE PIPE DOWN!!!!!! That stuff will kill you!
It's not a difficult area for 135 guys (except maybe the EJM types).
1. Since we (pilots) generally don't know if it's a related NJA/NJI/EJM flight how can the union possibly have ANY expectations that we (pilots) will not accept the trip?
2. You think ANYONE out there is going to put their employment at risk (at will employment in a 135 operation) by turning down a trip using a bogus excuse as wx, maint, etc?? GET REAL!!!!
3. As for the bar being set; How the hell do you figure that not crossing the line will improve any 135 guy's QOL/pay???? Just isn't gonna happen at the smaller type operations and most of the pilots at the larger 135 operators EJM,JET,TAG,AIR GROUP,AVJET,etc are making more than NJA guys already and probably more than you'll get in a new TA.

Again while I support the efforts of your group to improve your situation and I will not actively seek to fly any of "your flying", I think it's absurd for your MEC to think they can hold the entire 135 pilot force hostage under the threat of some list.
My feeling is that some of you guys have taken a few to many hits off the pipe and have lost touch with reality on some issues.
Again, good luck in the negotiations, I hope you get all you can and then some but don't alienate (sp?) your advocates in the process.

 

[ultrarunner]

I just made a request that the company that books my charters only indicate the required passenger information. In the past, they would typically indicated paying third-party.

No reason for our crews to know that.

Less is more.

 

[h25b]

I am writing the Union leasdership at NetJets to find out more about this situation. If they choose to go down this road, which I KNOW would be a HUGE mistake they all better count on being completely shunned by the ENTIRE business aviation community.

I currently fly these trips alot and the union had my full support. I'm in the top 10% of pay for my equipment (as are all of our pilots). I just find it amusing that the ASAP web site itself points to pilots like myself when making their case for higher pay and then turns around and tries to screw us.

Good going guys...

(insert sounds of all NetJets pilot resumes hitting shredder).

I can tell you for a fact that there's a lot of pilots from NetJets that have resumes out and can also guarantee who's side the rank and file of NBAA Membership will fall on this one. Just make darn sure NetJets is where you plan on being for life before you start making enemies out of the people that are supporting you.

 

[Diesel]

great so now you are threatening us?

 

[h25b]

great so now you are threatening us?

nope not threatening at all. this is just reality. i just can't believe the union is even serious about this one. i read your posts all of the time diesel and you're usually right on. you're way off base on this one. i'm the first one to great you guys in an fbo and wish you luck as are many of us corporate guys/gals. we all want to see you succeed on this one. believe me, it would make my job a lot easier if you were making an acceptable wage.

i've worked and continue to work at operations that have many resumes on file from NetJets pilots sick of the pay, benefits, schedule, etc. of fractional flying and can only guess the situation is the same at other Fortune 500 operation. now do you really think it's a wise move to alienate these people.

we're all rooting for you, at least for now. i'm just saying it's not wise to screw things up for others at NetJets that might wish to do something else in the future. it cuts both ways people.

the following is from asap's web page....

"When NJA pilot salaries are compared to the annual salary survey conducted by the National Business Aviation Association (NBAA), NJA pilots currently earn an average of 50% base salary of other pilots in the United States who fly similar jet aircraft. Under the contract proposal, NJA pilots would have earned only an average of 55% of what other, less productive pilots earn operating the same equipment for other companies. "

first we are your peers, when it's in your best interests... now we're the enemy... first class people, first class...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What a joke. When ALPA gave the Continental scabs membership, it proved pilot unions in the end are completely phony.

.

No, ALPA is a political organization. It played politics and saw that gaining an entire membership group at an airline was worth allowing scabs back in.

It is not black and white. If you want to say that ALPA saw green with the potential dues income then fine. But ALPA didn't just crater and welcome scabs....

I am not justifying it, just offer an explanation....

 

[400A]

Alpa

No, ALPA is a political organization. It played politics and saw that gaining an entire membership group at an airline was worth allowing scabs back in.

It is not black and white. If you want to say that ALPA saw green with the potential dues income then fine. But ALPA didn't just crater and welcome scabs....

I am not justifying it, just offer an explanation....

NO ALPA is just a joke, period. another fine example of scab list with no back bone. No verification, and no real identity.

I know someone falsely labled a scab(but did not know it untill somebody slipped and told him he was on the list)

That was his reward for beind a loyal ALPA member (at both Eastern and US air) (and yes he went on strike at Eastern and never went back) then was furloughed at US air. After 5 years he finally got it straightened out and was hired at Delta.

Boy, he got his moneys worth out of those dues. I hope ALPA can represent us corporate guys.

 

[Publishers]

"Other less productive pilots"

You mean the ones that do all the flying 52 weeks a year, who do all their own flight plans, hotel and motel reservations, FBO reservations, clean the aircraft, see to it the maintenance is done, pay all the aircraft bills, schedule their own training, handle their own airline reservations, check the weather, load the plane with supplies, see to it the linen is done, and then fly.

Surely they will race to support you.

 

[netjetwife]

With all due respect, gentlemen, they DO have until June 24th to work things out. There is also the matter of the strike vote, that has yet to be taken. A high percentage of yes votes may convince the company that the pilots are standing firm in their JUSTIFIED demands. Seems to me that a "cooling off" period also has to happen first. Aren't you getting just a bit ahead of yourselves?

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

great so now you are threatening us?

See, it's happening already. If you want to really get the rest of the aviation community supporting you, you don't throw around threats. You reap what you sew. The only reason anyone is making any 'threats' to NetJet pilots, is because some morons on this board are trying so scare them. Bottom line, if I was in a wage fight with my boss, and he threatened to sell the plane and go to NetJets, would you support me? Not fly him? Not show up for work? I didn't think so. It's OK to tell someone they can't do YOUR job, it's not OK to tell them they can't do THEIRS. Historically, scabs are not people who are gainfully employed and just go on doing the same job they have been, it's always been people who are advancing their careers at the union worker's expense.



Be very careful, we (together as part 91, 125 and 135 pilots) outnumber you. We are a huge lobbying power and we ARE the NBAA. We have been supporting you in private and public forums. I've even told my boss about your plight. Now you ARE alienating us. Bad move.



Ace

 

[h25b]

Bottom line, if I was in a wage fight with my boss, and he threatened to sell the plane and go to NetJets, would you support me? Not fly him? Not show up for work? I didn't think so.


Ace

Actually, this is a VERY interesting point being made... I wonder how many of the NetJets owners are former operators of corporate aircraft. I'd be willing to bet NetJet's pilots are flying some of our old passengers... They tend to forget that they have put their fair share of pilots out on the street to begin with. At my first Fortune 500 job we had to defend ourselves from the predatory tactics of NetJets' (then Executive Jet) sales.

That's it, all of us dues-paying NBAA members need to scab-list ALL NetJets pilots. THEY ARE FLYING OUR PASSENGERS!!!

Now do you guys see how stupid you sound???

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Be very careful, we (together as part 91, 125 and 135 pilots) outnumber you. We are a huge lobbying power and we ARE the NBAA. We have been supporting you in private and public forums. I've even told my boss about your plight. Now you ARE alienating us. Bad move.



Ace

Amen brother.

Don't get me wrong guys, let me make myself clear. I would never cross a NJ picket line, and I support your efforts to increase your QOL. But c'mon, if you guys are on strike, we (part 91 corporate and 135 charter) should refuse to fly your pax???

Ok, lets say I would refuse to fly your pax, and by the way I think I indeed would refuse to fly your pax (and thefore get my ass fired) are you going to pay my food and rent until I find myself a new job???

no??? and why not? thanks "brothers" ..

 

[Fracster]

Fly our pax or don't, who gives a sh!t!


Let the pax get mad, realize the Fracs aren't realy worth it and go back to having their own plane. This way we get our QOL back, better pay and we don't have to be looked at as the guys who shut "that" flight department down.