Netjet billboard @ TEB

[slowto250]

The more I read your guys posts the more you show how little you know about the company and does nothing to make me want to take up your cause. All company information (propaganda) aside I can see with my own experiences and understanding alone that you guys aren't even close to knowing how this company makes business decisions. You taking sell-offs personally as if it was an afront to the pilot force is a joke. Anytime a conversation like this turns personal I know you've run out of inteligent things to say. I won't join you.

I was here long before dispatch started too, and I won't even reply to half the other crap because it's not worth it. Stick to your conspiracy theories as long as you want. Trash the company as long as it makes you feel good. Go ahead show your true character while enjoying your anonymity. I know too many good people, pilots included, at this company to let you ruin their name - but your doing a good job for everyone else who reads your threads. If my opinions are harsh than maybe I'm speaking up for those who are really scared that you are going to unneccesarily ruin their livlihood. I'm responding to the "who cares about anyone else - what have we got to lose" mentality demonstrated earlier in this post by people who could give a rip about this company.

LR45JI was right. We've at least got to respect each other because at the end of the day we are on the same team. I have removed my comment about the " vehicle upgrade" with due respect to those who have more appropriate motives.

Yeah. Like upgrading from potted meat.....to spam.

 

[I-R-DXR]

I must say we have a few pilots here who dont think too highly of my little group. Thats OK you are allowed your opinion.

If anything you have said was true what did you do about it? Ill tell you flat out if you find an error that should have been caught do 2 things:

First call your Dispatcher to get it corrected

Second - Call your ACP to advise him/her of the error.

Minor $hit aside. If you find a safety / Reg error then tell the DXR / ACP. I assure you your ACP will notify the DXR Manager.

And yes something WILL be done about it.

I have a very destinct feeling you have MAYBE one or two bad instances that forever tarnish the view of a Dispatcher. Have you ever sat behind a Dispatcher in the casino? Ive given a few briefings in my day - Id be glad to show you around.

El Chup-

And now we have the opportunity to correct this error by renegotiating.

So what you are saying is YOU made the error in taking the job but YOU will correct the mistake by forcing the company to pay what YOU want.

Can you see some of the reasons why the middle man is getting scared?

Some Dude-

Maybe you should thank me for your job. It was the pilots who fought to get a dispatch department set up at eja/nja. You wouldn't be here with out us. However you do not need to be here for us. We filed our flight plans before we can do it again.

Not sure if I have the pilot group to thank for my job - If so THANK YOU. You bring up a good point and one of the reasons Im on this board. If the pilots new contract lets say over extends the company budget by say 30 mil a year. What department is the most costly and liquid? See your quote above...

NJA CPT-

And as you chose to ignore in my last post, the "third party" ADMITTED he had a "limited understanding" of the fractional ownership model.

Question - Did the MEC counter with its own auditor?
Thanks

LR45JI-

No one .........respects........... no one

Dont let some of the outspoken ones taint your image of ANY NetJet worker. I always try to give that Pilot on the other line whatever I can give him. I am curtious and respectfull. I cant remember the last time a Pilot was directly nasty to me personally. Yea he has been RUDE AS HELL to me at times. One look at the timeline and I understand why - and I let him vent. Better me than the customer right?

Diesel-

Enjoy your night at home with your family and in your bed. Douche

I do. I became a Disptcher because I could come home every night. You knew full well that becoming a pilot you were not coming home every night. By the post I quoted of you it seems you may have lost your love of flying. If its your current job that did this then please get out while you can. I hope you find it again someday.

Slowto250
Hey I like SPAM


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[PGH STEEL]

I'm just going to take a shot in the dark here but I bet dsptchrNJA is getting paid what his job is worth!!!

 

[Some Dude]

Still noone wants to debate the true Berkshire Hathaway financial reports that show us making millions and providing the money to keep Netjets Europe afloat.

Dispatcher just wants to believe the crap propaganda from Boisture. Look at the reports you will see the company is lying to you and everyone at "Fort Fumble." We made millions even after all the waste. Yet you don't want to take the time to educate yourself.
The fact that you don't think that RTS would never lie to you and that he ( the company ) has a proven track record is just plain stupid, or it shows that you haven't been here very long.

I truely hope that you and the rest of the personel in CMH get the money that you deserve. (Except for Owner Services because they are nothing but liers). Educate yourself then you may get that raise at your next review.
Rts said he wanted to make our jobs the best in the industry even after 10 plus years at NetJets I still won't make what a first your captain makes at a corporate flight department. It's time for me to get mine. If it means shutting this place down then go ahead. It might be the career change I was looking for.

One more thing can you really trust RTS after he allowed the schedulers to accept gifts and kickbacks from some loser pilots for better schedules? The schedulers should have been fired and the "A team" should have been fired long ago.

 

[El Chupacabra]

scared

Can you see some of the reasons why the middle man is getting scared?



​

FEAR NOT. I see exactly why. That was the company's strategy in their response to 6S that was parroted in this thread. Its the same strategy airline managements have used for decades. FEAR is exactly what they intended. They need a new playbook.

 

[I-R-DXR]

If it means shutting this place down then go ahead. It might be the career change I was looking for.

You are one of the most if not THE most unprofessional pilot I have ever come across. A word of advise. Dont ever say that in the flight center

You sir are an A$$

 

[Some Dude]

Hey clown man is that a threat? If shutting down this place is what it takes then so what? RTS and Boisture PROMISED you that nobody in the flight center would be laid off. So, why are you scared of us striking? You might just get a paid vacation. I have been supporting the growth of this company with my substandard wages for too long. You have too. Maybe you guys should try to get your fair share of the pie.

I don't go to sleep at night worrying if RTS or Buffet are going to go broke just to pay me standard industry wages. If you really want to help the company then why don't you take a pay cut, or no raise at all. Didn't think so. What the company didn't tell you is at my years with the company I was actually going to take a pay cut if the last contract proposal passed.

You guys don't have a clue as to the level of professionalism that myself and the crews provide every day to our owners. Most of our time is fixing all the screw ups in the day from Columbus. I guess that is why the owners rate the flight crews level of service as More than Excellent. They certainly don't say that about "Fort Fumble." That is probably not your fault at all but it is a direct reflection of the grade school management team that we have in place.

If you guys don't educate yourselves to what is going on in this company than you will never get what you deserve.

 

[Fracster]

dsptchrNJA represents the mentality and logic by which NetJets operates. Appoint someone to a position for which they are hardly qualified or capable of completing simply due to time in service or based on a relationship.

NJA dispatch operates with the same efficiency and effectiveness as management.

At NJA you will be dispatched with not enough fuel, to a closed airport, a closed runway, with improper/incorrect notams, into severe turbulence/icing, told your airplane can make it non-stop when as a pilot we know we clearly can't.
These are all examples that have happened to me!!!!!

Management operates under the same principle. It is clearly obvious why dsptchrNJA feels the way he/she does. We won't change his/her opinion.
You can't change a lemming and well all know what happens to them.

 

[I-R-DXR]

Hey clown man is that a threat?

No threat just a word of advice. You try that in the flight center and all hell will break loose.

If shutting down this place is what it takes then so what?

Thus the reason you are unprofessional. Wonder why people turn against the union? Easy just give the impression you are holding a gun to the companies head to get what you want, thus threating the lives of thousands of their families.

Maybe you guys should try to get your fair share of the pie.

I accepted a job here at a pay I could live with.

If you really want to help the company then why don't you take a pay cut, or no raise at all.

For several years I HAVE entered my annual review with the thought of zero pay raise to help the company. Stability is more important to see than pay right now.

You guys don't have a clue as to the level of professionalism that myself and the crews provide every day to our owners.

I surely hope you do provide a higher level of the professionalism to the customer. You sure as hell don't seem to care/give any to any non pilot/owner.

Fracster-

At NJA you will be dispatched with not enough fuel, to a closed airport, a closed runway, with improper/incorrect notams, into severe turbulence/icing, told your airplane can make it non-stop when as a pilot we know we clearly can't.

Like I said before anytime you are in the casino look me up. Id be glad to teach you flight planning. I can not begin to tell you the screwups Ive caught our pilots doing - and I WONT. No one is perfect. Errors happen thus the reason for two eyes on the release right? Like I said in a previous post what did you do about it?


-with not enough fuel
Thats is relative to you. Not enough for you is too much for another. If it doesnt have enough juice the computer will spit an error at you. Yes its based of forecast winds so when Im flight planning you north via GRB to avoid the Jetstream and you accept a direct guess what? Min fuel and turbulence.

-to a closed airport, a closed runway,
Examples please. OH and did you contact the ACP?

-with improper/incorrect notams,
The NOTAM system NJ uses is a feed from Jepp so if an error occurs please contact them.

-into severe turbulence/icing,
Forecasting this is difficult at best. Your release is done up to 4 hours prior to departure. Things change. If you feel the weather is not friendly to your route call your Dispatcher to discuss an alternate route of flight.

-airplane can make it non-stop when as a pilot we know we clearly can't
If I do a fight plan and it makes it with a level of extra fuel then I Release it. If the PIC calls to break the flight its because he is not comfortable with the fuel/distance. His/Her call all the way. I have had way too many times that I have broken a flight up just so the Cpt. can flight direct and I/Dispatch look bad. I let the Cpt. decide to stop - so does most of the department - His choice.

Im not on this board to flame, or troll. I want to make sure the middle man is heard. No I have not taken sides in this fight. Each side has its kool aid. I prefer to stay out of the fight cause the middle man never has all the info. Comments like "Some Dude" make it difficult to stay on the sidelines. "Fracster" doesn't bother me. He hates the Dispatch department - and that is ok with me.


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[El Chupacabra]

You are not helping us at all by attacking coworkers.

But did you know that If every one flew a couple thousand feet lower on every flight... and every crew averaged 500 hours per year... at the present cost of fuel... each crew would have extra fuel costs of $100,000 per year.

Multiply that by 1000 crews and you have $100 Million in EXTRA fuel costs per yr.

Flying 4000 ft lower would double that and I am not that big a fan of wearing an O2 mask for 4 hours straight which you must do above FL410 on 91 flights and above FL350 on 135 legs. I am not sure how many are willing to continue doing so just to save the company $200million a yr. $200 Million is about twice what the entire payroll is for Pilots now.

You have to realize that pilot salaries is not a very significant cost.

If we continue to be underpaid, enthusiasm will continue to plummet. As you can see this has dragged out too long and some of my fellow aviators are losing it.

Accepting the Salaries the company said was all they could afford in the last TA would have been disasterous for this company. We can not afford to pay pilots here less than our counterparts in Corporate Aviation.

As you can see if you go back and read the threads over the last few years, we are Ridiculed, by those people for accepting such below standard pay. I don't want to have to be EMBARRASSED by telling someone who I work for... Anymore.

The cost of not producing a salary scale competitive with NBAA standards is for more costly than the payraise we seek.

 

[I-R-DXR]

You are not helping us at all by attacking coworkers.

Was that for me or Some Dude? Mine was a word of advice. His was a threat to shut the Company down.

Flying 4000 ft lower would double that and I am not that big a fan of wearing an O2 mask for 4 hours straight which you must do above FL410 on 91 flights and above FL350 on 135 legs. I am not sure how many are willing to continue doing so just to save the company $200million a yr.

I dont get it. Are you saying if you are not happy with the contract you will fly lower to cost the company more money?


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[I-R-DXR]

Appoint someone to a position for which they are hardly qualified or capable of completing simply due to time in service or based on a relationship.

Forgive me for how a union operates is new to me. Doesn't the union run solely on seniority?

 

[El Chupacabra]

Was that for me or Some Dude? Mine was a word of advice. His was a threat to shut the Company down.




I dont get it. Are you saying if you are not happy with the contract you will fly lower to cost the company more money?


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It was for the Pilots. Not you. They are losing it I think. But I think this just demonstrates why this contract needs to get done fast.


Flying lower. Go down to the hangar and ask to sit in one of the Citation X's. Put the O2 mask on and see how long you can stand having it on your face. Now think about that when you dispatch the next X on a 135 trip over FL350 or a 91 trip over FL410. If I am not happy with the contract, I may not care that it costs $1000 that I fly a couple thousand feet lower this leg so I don't have to wear a mask for 4 hours straight.

 

[I-R-DXR]

Flying lower. Go down to the hangar and ask to sit in one of the Citation X's. Put the O2 mask on and see how long you can stand having it on your face. Now think about that when you dispatch the next X on a 135 trip over FL350 or a 91 trip over FL410.

I wish I had the opportunity to do just that. I need to get out of the box.

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[El Chupacabra]

I wish I had the opportunity to do just that. I need to get out of the box.

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It should be required training for all Dispatchers and schedulers too. last tour I flew one day over 10 hours block. I probably had that b!ttch on nearly 7 hours. I do not make my FO's wear it since only one of us has to... I let it be me.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Mr. Chupacabra. First, all, and I mean ALL, fuel costs are paid directly by the share-owners so your suggestion won't save or cost the company a dime. The only way the company can ever save money on fuel is on most ferry legs. We are starting to learn even reducing the speed on your ferry's is not saving as much as we originally projected which has something to do with MX/airframe time, etc.

Let me address some earlier posts simply by saying:

-No one is suggesting or has suggested in this post they wouldn't like to see your pay increased.

-No one said you guys don't do a good job and your level of service has not been criticized - even though you chose to slander the quality work by the dispatch dept.

-No one has said the company has not been profitable (except for this year's $6 mil loss) - only debating to what extent and how much they can afford to pay salary increases.

I am suggesting:

-The company has not initiated a smear campaign against pilots. Actually quite the opposite. In January 2005 NetJets began a pilot recognition program to show its appreciation to flight crews who demonstrated excellence. On April 20, 2005, the first recognition rewards were presented to one Flight Attendant and three Pilots, for their superior contribution who will be rewarded with a letter of commendation. In addition the amount of respect and gratitude from Bill Boisture himself on the behalf of pilots has been truly amazing. Smear campaign? Turning co-workers against you? Hardly.

The fact that you don't think that RTS would never lie to you and that he ( the company ) has a proven track record is just plain stupid, or it shows that you haven't been here very long.

I truely hope that you and the rest of the personel in CMH get the money that you deserve. (Except for Owner Services because they are nothing but liers). Educate yourself then you may get that raise at your next review.
>>>
One more thing can you really trust RTS after he allowed the schedulers to accept gifts and kickbacks from some loser pilots for better schedules? The schedulers should have been fired and the "A team" should have been fired long ago.

-Owner Services and Schedulers are not liars. For you to say this lets me know your level of integrity and lack of understanding. I have worked with both of them and seen the challenges they face and do the best they can to do our owners right. Do they make mistakes? We all do. Do they make the best decisions they know how with the information available with the best possible intentions? We all do. Does it always turn out right? No. Do we have to be accused of lying because of it? Apparently.
I have already mentioned in other posts that allegations made regarding "gifts" was formally investigated by a third party and the allegations were found to be false. You might have missed that memo.

RTS, from only my personal observation over the years, has not only kept his word, I have seen time and time again him going above his duty to benefit the employee. He never fired a single person when it would have been the proper business decision to do so during the recesion following 9/11. We were fat on personnel and he promised no one would lose a job - and kept it. How quickly you forget. If he has lied to you, then I don't know anything about it. I can only judge from my own experiences.

Yo! Dispatcher I have been here a looong time way before we even had dispatchers at eja/nja. Maybe you should thank me for your job. It was the pilots who fought to get a dispatch department set up at eja/nja.

I guess you were hoping I wasn't around then to know better. I'm calling your bluff. Not only was I an original member of dispatch I was hired long before it came into existence. You taking credit for dispatch is like Al Gore taking credit for the Internet. I know the people responsible for this department and you weren't one of them.

I was sent to BACK UP A VENDOR FLIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

Scheduling doesn't consult you either, I bet.

-NetJets only uses vendors to fulfill contractual obilgations and normally loses money by doing so.

You have to understand the basic concept for applying vendor trips. If I own a Hawker and the QS tail breaks and a QS tail of EQUAL or BETTER size/quality can't cover it and a vendor is called in - the vendor has to also be equal or better. Many times it will be better and we'll have to pay for a GIV or something but only take in revenue for a Hawker. In addition, if the owner is upset enough the company may choose to give him discount for the trip. You simply aren't considering the factors involved behind vendor coverage.

I don't know your specific example but if you were backing for a vendor trip than it was likely because you were not the equal or better vendor the owner was expecting or paying for and was likely the "last resort" in order to get the owner to his destination on time - a good business decision by NetJets. If your a/c was larger or better than the one you backed up perhaps it was an "over kill" and not what the owner wanted either. Still the right decision by scheduling. So why are you worried about it? I don't get it. The paranoia is out of control.

... If shutting down this place is what it takes then so what? RTS and Boisture PROMISED you that nobody in the flight center would be laid off. So, why are you scared of us striking?

Actually Boisture didn't promise no one would lose their job per sey. What he said exactly was that there would "still be work to do in the event of a strike". We have no contract, no gaurantees, no promises in the event it becomes out of control and detrimental. And he was speaking to the entire company. As for dispatchers, if QS tails aren't flying, there is no work for us to do, unlike owner service and scheduling. It's one "vacation" that I hope can be avoided. I am hoping for succussful negotiations over the next few months and we can get back to focusing on what we all do best. Keep'n em' flyin. Stay safe out there.

 

[El Chupacabra]

-No one said you guys don't do a good job and your level of service has not been criticized - even though you chose to slander the quality work by the dispatch dept.






​

Just to be clear. I did not do this... and I disagree with the statements made by some others. I have absolutely No criticism of anyone below the rank of CEO.




Fuel costs. Don't cost the company? I just wore the mask for the last time. Of course I won't be able to make it from BOS to VNY nonstop anymore. Now go downstairs and wear that MASK for 4 hours.

So why are you worried about it? I don't get it. The paranoia is out of control.




​

I think the answer is Stress induced by small paychecks and being ridiculed and laughed out of FBO's and Internet message boards nationwide for accepting such pay and years of paying the rent and groceries on credit cards.

 

[Some Dude]

Still Ass Clown won't debate or even educate himself about the true financial reports of this company. If you don't have the balls to ask for a raise then that's your fault. It is clear you have no clue about union matters. Maybe you should go attack the mechanics they are union too. Most professional dispatchers belong to a union.

I am responsible to catch all of your mistakes. I am directly responsible for the safety of the flight. I have to do my job and make sure to fix the the fck ups the company hands me on a daily basis.
You are truley clueless about the day in and day out operations of this company. The flight crews carry all the reposibility that is why we are true professionals. I know the value of my service and I will be paid for it.

We had a contest to see if someone could guess how many VP we had at Netjets. I think the winning number was around 67. Why is "Fort Fumble" so screwed up that it takes that many VPs to run the place? Or is it that the persons upstairs are just to immature to operate at a professional level?

Oh yeah why won't you speak about the customer service reports that have the satisfaction with the flight crews higher than any other department in the company?

Sorry, but a two week dispatcher course does not make you an expert in aviation.

 

[Diesel]

man oh man

Funny none of the pilots heard about the pilot recognition program. We got a memo but like everything else it just dissapeared. Probably because we all voted for JP.

If you were here for a long time then you remember the mechanics strike. Did you go downstairs and say your feelings to the mechanics or is it easier to do behind anonymity? Dispatch knows who i am i've got nothing to hide.

I have great respect for what the dispatchers do. I flew a plane last year which was undispatchable. Long form weight and balance and manual releases, with manual flight plans. Now that sucked.

That being said you started this argument by the most disrespecting post. Just because you changed part of it doesn't make it any better. Have some nuts and stand behind your post.

I would have lost significant amount of money if I accepted the last TA. I voted it down on a number of reasons. Do you really think we are going to go backword on a TA and be happy? If you did you had your evaluation and they told you that your work has been excellent and your output was higher than last year but they are going to cut your pay. .. Would you take it?

The pilots at this company are treated as a nusance. The company pays for college courses oh wait only for bridgeway not pilots. Oh wait the company pays for a bbq for families. Oh wait pilots are never told when or if it happens. The examples are endless. Now you want the pilots to give up more just so you can continue working?

What happens happens. You or I have no control over it. The company has to do what's right.

 

[El Chupacabra]

D

I been trying to figure out how they claim they lose money on selloffs. I just noticed that they compare the cost of a Selloff with ONLY the occupied hourly fee. As though that is the only revenue coming in for that flight. Oh my, when first we practice to deceive....


Here is a math lesson for you.

Consider the number of SellOFF flights and the number of Jet Card flights. The number of JetCard flights is GREATER. Lets call them equal.

We charge $8400 per hour to ride the X. Market Charter rates is $4600 to maybe $5000 hr. I smell a $3400/hr profit here.