Netjet billboard @ TEB

[I-R-DXR]

You are not helping us at all by attacking coworkers.

Was that for me or Some Dude? Mine was a word of advice. His was a threat to shut the Company down.

Flying 4000 ft lower would double that and I am not that big a fan of wearing an O2 mask for 4 hours straight which you must do above FL410 on 91 flights and above FL350 on 135 legs. I am not sure how many are willing to continue doing so just to save the company $200million a yr.

I dont get it. Are you saying if you are not happy with the contract you will fly lower to cost the company more money?


.

 

[I-R-DXR]

Appoint someone to a position for which they are hardly qualified or capable of completing simply due to time in service or based on a relationship.

Forgive me for how a union operates is new to me. Doesn't the union run solely on seniority?

 

[El Chupacabra]

Was that for me or Some Dude? Mine was a word of advice. His was a threat to shut the Company down.




I dont get it. Are you saying if you are not happy with the contract you will fly lower to cost the company more money?


.

It was for the Pilots. Not you. They are losing it I think. But I think this just demonstrates why this contract needs to get done fast.


Flying lower. Go down to the hangar and ask to sit in one of the Citation X's. Put the O2 mask on and see how long you can stand having it on your face. Now think about that when you dispatch the next X on a 135 trip over FL350 or a 91 trip over FL410. If I am not happy with the contract, I may not care that it costs $1000 that I fly a couple thousand feet lower this leg so I don't have to wear a mask for 4 hours straight.

 

[I-R-DXR]

Flying lower. Go down to the hangar and ask to sit in one of the Citation X's. Put the O2 mask on and see how long you can stand having it on your face. Now think about that when you dispatch the next X on a 135 trip over FL350 or a 91 trip over FL410.

I wish I had the opportunity to do just that. I need to get out of the box.

.

 

[El Chupacabra]

I wish I had the opportunity to do just that. I need to get out of the box.

.

It should be required training for all Dispatchers and schedulers too. last tour I flew one day over 10 hours block. I probably had that b!ttch on nearly 7 hours. I do not make my FO's wear it since only one of us has to... I let it be me.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Mr. Chupacabra. First, all, and I mean ALL, fuel costs are paid directly by the share-owners so your suggestion won't save or cost the company a dime. The only way the company can ever save money on fuel is on most ferry legs. We are starting to learn even reducing the speed on your ferry's is not saving as much as we originally projected which has something to do with MX/airframe time, etc.

Let me address some earlier posts simply by saying:

-No one is suggesting or has suggested in this post they wouldn't like to see your pay increased.

-No one said you guys don't do a good job and your level of service has not been criticized - even though you chose to slander the quality work by the dispatch dept.

-No one has said the company has not been profitable (except for this year's $6 mil loss) - only debating to what extent and how much they can afford to pay salary increases.

I am suggesting:

-The company has not initiated a smear campaign against pilots. Actually quite the opposite. In January 2005 NetJets began a pilot recognition program to show its appreciation to flight crews who demonstrated excellence. On April 20, 2005, the first recognition rewards were presented to one Flight Attendant and three Pilots, for their superior contribution who will be rewarded with a letter of commendation. In addition the amount of respect and gratitude from Bill Boisture himself on the behalf of pilots has been truly amazing. Smear campaign? Turning co-workers against you? Hardly.

The fact that you don't think that RTS would never lie to you and that he ( the company ) has a proven track record is just plain stupid, or it shows that you haven't been here very long.

I truely hope that you and the rest of the personel in CMH get the money that you deserve. (Except for Owner Services because they are nothing but liers). Educate yourself then you may get that raise at your next review.
>>>
One more thing can you really trust RTS after he allowed the schedulers to accept gifts and kickbacks from some loser pilots for better schedules? The schedulers should have been fired and the "A team" should have been fired long ago.

-Owner Services and Schedulers are not liars. For you to say this lets me know your level of integrity and lack of understanding. I have worked with both of them and seen the challenges they face and do the best they can to do our owners right. Do they make mistakes? We all do. Do they make the best decisions they know how with the information available with the best possible intentions? We all do. Does it always turn out right? No. Do we have to be accused of lying because of it? Apparently.
I have already mentioned in other posts that allegations made regarding "gifts" was formally investigated by a third party and the allegations were found to be false. You might have missed that memo.

RTS, from only my personal observation over the years, has not only kept his word, I have seen time and time again him going above his duty to benefit the employee. He never fired a single person when it would have been the proper business decision to do so during the recesion following 9/11. We were fat on personnel and he promised no one would lose a job - and kept it. How quickly you forget. If he has lied to you, then I don't know anything about it. I can only judge from my own experiences.

Yo! Dispatcher I have been here a looong time way before we even had dispatchers at eja/nja. Maybe you should thank me for your job. It was the pilots who fought to get a dispatch department set up at eja/nja.

I guess you were hoping I wasn't around then to know better. I'm calling your bluff. Not only was I an original member of dispatch I was hired long before it came into existence. You taking credit for dispatch is like Al Gore taking credit for the Internet. I know the people responsible for this department and you weren't one of them.

I was sent to BACK UP A VENDOR FLIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

Scheduling doesn't consult you either, I bet.

-NetJets only uses vendors to fulfill contractual obilgations and normally loses money by doing so.

You have to understand the basic concept for applying vendor trips. If I own a Hawker and the QS tail breaks and a QS tail of EQUAL or BETTER size/quality can't cover it and a vendor is called in - the vendor has to also be equal or better. Many times it will be better and we'll have to pay for a GIV or something but only take in revenue for a Hawker. In addition, if the owner is upset enough the company may choose to give him discount for the trip. You simply aren't considering the factors involved behind vendor coverage.

I don't know your specific example but if you were backing for a vendor trip than it was likely because you were not the equal or better vendor the owner was expecting or paying for and was likely the "last resort" in order to get the owner to his destination on time - a good business decision by NetJets. If your a/c was larger or better than the one you backed up perhaps it was an "over kill" and not what the owner wanted either. Still the right decision by scheduling. So why are you worried about it? I don't get it. The paranoia is out of control.

... If shutting down this place is what it takes then so what? RTS and Boisture PROMISED you that nobody in the flight center would be laid off. So, why are you scared of us striking?

Actually Boisture didn't promise no one would lose their job per sey. What he said exactly was that there would "still be work to do in the event of a strike". We have no contract, no gaurantees, no promises in the event it becomes out of control and detrimental. And he was speaking to the entire company. As for dispatchers, if QS tails aren't flying, there is no work for us to do, unlike owner service and scheduling. It's one "vacation" that I hope can be avoided. I am hoping for succussful negotiations over the next few months and we can get back to focusing on what we all do best. Keep'n em' flyin. Stay safe out there.

 

[El Chupacabra]

-No one said you guys don't do a good job and your level of service has not been criticized - even though you chose to slander the quality work by the dispatch dept.






​

Just to be clear. I did not do this... and I disagree with the statements made by some others. I have absolutely No criticism of anyone below the rank of CEO.




Fuel costs. Don't cost the company? I just wore the mask for the last time. Of course I won't be able to make it from BOS to VNY nonstop anymore. Now go downstairs and wear that MASK for 4 hours.

So why are you worried about it? I don't get it. The paranoia is out of control.




​

I think the answer is Stress induced by small paychecks and being ridiculed and laughed out of FBO's and Internet message boards nationwide for accepting such pay and years of paying the rent and groceries on credit cards.

 

[Some Dude]

Still Ass Clown won't debate or even educate himself about the true financial reports of this company. If you don't have the balls to ask for a raise then that's your fault. It is clear you have no clue about union matters. Maybe you should go attack the mechanics they are union too. Most professional dispatchers belong to a union.

I am responsible to catch all of your mistakes. I am directly responsible for the safety of the flight. I have to do my job and make sure to fix the the fck ups the company hands me on a daily basis.
You are truley clueless about the day in and day out operations of this company. The flight crews carry all the reposibility that is why we are true professionals. I know the value of my service and I will be paid for it.

We had a contest to see if someone could guess how many VP we had at Netjets. I think the winning number was around 67. Why is "Fort Fumble" so screwed up that it takes that many VPs to run the place? Or is it that the persons upstairs are just to immature to operate at a professional level?

Oh yeah why won't you speak about the customer service reports that have the satisfaction with the flight crews higher than any other department in the company?

Sorry, but a two week dispatcher course does not make you an expert in aviation.

 

[Diesel]

man oh man

Funny none of the pilots heard about the pilot recognition program. We got a memo but like everything else it just dissapeared. Probably because we all voted for JP.

If you were here for a long time then you remember the mechanics strike. Did you go downstairs and say your feelings to the mechanics or is it easier to do behind anonymity? Dispatch knows who i am i've got nothing to hide.

I have great respect for what the dispatchers do. I flew a plane last year which was undispatchable. Long form weight and balance and manual releases, with manual flight plans. Now that sucked.

That being said you started this argument by the most disrespecting post. Just because you changed part of it doesn't make it any better. Have some nuts and stand behind your post.

I would have lost significant amount of money if I accepted the last TA. I voted it down on a number of reasons. Do you really think we are going to go backword on a TA and be happy? If you did you had your evaluation and they told you that your work has been excellent and your output was higher than last year but they are going to cut your pay. .. Would you take it?

The pilots at this company are treated as a nusance. The company pays for college courses oh wait only for bridgeway not pilots. Oh wait the company pays for a bbq for families. Oh wait pilots are never told when or if it happens. The examples are endless. Now you want the pilots to give up more just so you can continue working?

What happens happens. You or I have no control over it. The company has to do what's right.

 

[El Chupacabra]

D

I been trying to figure out how they claim they lose money on selloffs. I just noticed that they compare the cost of a Selloff with ONLY the occupied hourly fee. As though that is the only revenue coming in for that flight. Oh my, when first we practice to deceive....


Here is a math lesson for you.

Consider the number of SellOFF flights and the number of Jet Card flights. The number of JetCard flights is GREATER. Lets call them equal.

We charge $8400 per hour to ride the X. Market Charter rates is $4600 to maybe $5000 hr. I smell a $3400/hr profit here.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Don't forget though, they still have to pay to position the airplane. Tack on another 2 to 4 hours of time on top of that. But still, running $8,400 bucks an hour, it sounds to me like they're still going to be making a profit on selloffs. Hell, with what they charge owners, they should me making money hand over fist, and if they're not, they're terrible managers and need to be replaced.

And they claim they can only pay their pilots $26K a year to start?? Puh-leaze. Stop stuffing bonus money in 67 VP's pockets and you can afford to pay more, that's for dam sure.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Capn V,

You know what is really amazing. They have the folks upstairs believing that Charter costs 3 times what WE charge the owners. because they say it costs US $3 to do a charter selloff for every $1 in revenue we charge the owner for the trip.


WHY ARE WE NOT PUTTING EVERY !#%ing 135 CHARTER COMPANY IN THE WORLD OUT OF BUSINESS THEN? If we are so much cheaper then they are.

We cost 1/3 the price of charter but they say "We cannot raise our prices because of the competitive nature of the business."!!!

Anybody wanna buy a Bridge?

 

[CapnVegetto]

El Chupacabra,

Good Lord......unethical management knows no bounds. They're like a bunch of used car salesmen......they're operating under the assumption that we're all idiots!! I don't even work at Netjets, but I know what they charge for contracts, and per hour, and you can dam near buy your own jet for what they charge. It's unbelieveable what they think they can get away with. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at what they're charging owners to know that they have to be making a killing, no matter what they say. I've never been a big fan of unions, and my limited experience with one was not a positive one, but when it's needed, it's needed, and NJA NEEDS one. A union is only as good as it's MEC, but you guys seem to be on the right track. You deserve more, and I, along with a lot more corporate/135 guys out there hope that you get what you deserve.

 

[Fozzy]

I really found this funny. Dav......ahhh I mean njadipstick posted.

"The only way the company can ever save money on fuel is on most ferry legs. We are starting to learn even reducing the speed on your ferry's is not saving as much as we originally projected which has something to do with MX/airframe time, etc."

As soon as this stupid program was announced every pilot was screaming that this would not save money!!! But like normal, we were ignored. I guess it must come from Scheduling or a VP to have anyone listen. And even then they must do a study and have a meeting a week for 24 weeks before anyone takes notice. Mickey Mouse management with the kids running the store.

 

[I-R-DXR]

Some Nut-​

Still Ass Clown won't debate or even educate himself about the true financial reports of this company. If you don't have the balls to ask for a raise then that's your fault.

I truly don't care about the financial reports of the company. I don't care how much you make - so long as it does not harm MY stability. I do have the balls to ask for a raise - I simply stated that job stability after 9/11 is my priority. A stable long term job in aviation is hard to come by these days.​

Do I think the NJ crews need a raise - Yep sure do. Ive never said differently. To what end.... not my concern.​

I want a agreement that both can live with. If the company could afford 300k a year and you got it - well good for the NJ Crews. I accepted a job with a pay I could be happy with without promises.​

Diesel said that dsptchrNJA had one of the worst postings he has read. I think you topped them all with:​

​

It's time for me to get mine. If it means shutting this place down then go ahead. It might be the career change I was looking for.​

​

You give the true professional pilots of NJ a bad rep. Maybe you are due for that carrier change huh? Don't let the door hit you on the way out.​

LOL wait a second:​

Troll-​

An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.​

Wait that's you Some Nut.​

Beside that fact Ill give in to you demands - please link me to the NJA financial info. Ill take the time to read them. Just make sure it is NetJets data not BH data.​

Don't see the Buffalo News judging how good they are doing based on the BH bottom line.

.
​

 

[I-R-DXR]

Sorry, but a two week dispatcher course does not make you an expert in aviation.​

​

Ive never like the accelerated course. Its a joke.​

I don't claim to be an aviation expert - don't see where in hell you got that idea from. From that Ill tell you I no dam noob either. Ive worked 74 classics down to Ultras. Ive been in the field for well over 10 years now.​

And I'm humble enough to say I still have a lot to learn from a good Captain.​

.​

 

[Sun Tzu]

Netjets is raking in the cash with the McMillionaire Jet Cards
Lets look at a Citation X for example

Citation X 25 hour card = $179,000
800 occupied hours per year = 32 cards per year
32 x $179,000 = $ 5,728,000 per year in gross revenue
5 yrs x $5,728,000 = $28,864,000

Hawker 800XP 25 hour card = $159,000
800 occupied hours per year = 32 cards per year
32 x $ 159,000 = $5,088,000 per year in gross revenue
5 yrs X $5,088,000 = $25,440,000

Now show me a charter company that could'nt buy and operate either airframe and not make some serious cash here. That's not taking into any account for residual value after the 5 years. A five year Hawker, refurbished with 6000 airframe hours has to be worth 5 to 6 mil.

Now let's look at the money being funneled to EJM for charter ops, $300 dollar ramp fees, outrageous oil, O2, Lavs, ..... The money sent to FSI for training.

Netjets has been good to pilots in the past when it came to family emergencies and natural disasters. The alternative would have been some really bad press. Behind the scenes he treats us with complete contempt. Reference the expanded gateway/ Fly from home deal for seat locks.

Owner services has been caught in out right whoppers, with no disputing the facts. Pilots, Owners and even ACP/CP have seen it. So go ahead and ignore the facts and keep drinking the Kool Aid. Dollar Bill has to be proud of employees that refuse to look at the facts.

I don't want to go on strike, but the alternative is almost worse. Please let us know where you think the pilots should go from here. You seem to have all the answers so far.

 

[I-R-DXR]

I don't want to go on strike, but the alternative is almost worse. Please let us know where you think the pilots should go from here. You seem to have all the answers so far.

I dont want you to go on strike either. After over 4 years if an agreement has not been made its your legal right to do so.

You seem to have all the answers so far.

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** Im good, but not that good.

 

[IFlyOU]

i need to take you all out to dinner... that would be a night to remember!

*bad idea*

 

[holden1]

Netjets is raking in the cash with the McMillionaire Jet Cards
Lets look at a Citation X for example

Citation X 25 hour card = $179,000
800 occupied hours per year = 32 cards per year
32 x $179,000 = $ 5,728,000 per year in gross revenue
5 yrs x $5,728,000 = $28,864,000

Hawker 800XP 25 hour card = $159,000
800 occupied hours per year = 32 cards per year
32 x $ 159,000 = $5,088,000 per year in gross revenue
5 yrs X $5,088,000 = $25,440,000

Hold up Sun Tzu - I agree NetJets has been pulling in some interetsing dollars, BUT you are making reference to the Marquis card. As far as I know, this is a separate entity (although speculation says that RS is going to buy the company outright). They are partnerd with Marquis, and no doubt hold some form of equity in the company. However, Marquis is pulling in a good part of the revenue as well.

I think the bigger issue is how much extra time is Marquis putting onto the NJ fleet. If I was a NJ owner and realized my residual value would fall b/c my a/c was being overused OR I was not getting a QS tail very often, I would be bull*&^!!

Anymore insights on this?

Holden1

 

[x402]

Hold up Sun Tzu - I agree NetJets has been pulling in some interetsing dollars, BUT you are making reference to the Marquis card. As far as I know, this is a separate entity (although speculation says that RS is going to buy the company outright). They are partnerd with Marquis, and no doubt hold some form of equity in the company. However, Marquis is pulling in a good part of the revenue as well.

I think the bigger issue is how much extra time is Marquis putting onto the NJ fleet. If I was a NJ owner and realized my residual value would fall b/c my a/c was being overused OR I was not getting a QS tail very often, I would be bull*&^!!

Marquis LEASES time from NJA Sales, on what ever a/c they want to sell cards on. They have oversold this beyond belief. We don't have the planes if you parse out the card totals, we sell off and we fly the piss out of the owners planes.
Marquis makes what Netjets lets them. Period.

 

[Diesel]

Hey a$$ clown before you copy and paste why don't you get the quote right. that wasn't me who said it but you seem to like to distort the facts to fit your view.

If you don't care about financial reports on this or any company man you've really got your head in the sand. Good employees read the financial reports. It gives them an outlook on what is really happening, not in just their company but other companies around them.

Use the search button. NJ data is posted when the annual reports come out. I don't feel like looking I've already read it.

So call me a troll all you want. With your 23 posts and 99 percent of them have been stirring the pot. Take a look at my 800+ posts. Some people might not agree with me, and I've been a d!ck in some of them, I've helped in others, but i am not a troll.

 

[I-R-DXR]

Diesel

My postings were not directed toward you in any way. I simply stated a reference to your thought from a comment from DispatcherNJ. Thats all. The post was toward Some Dude - not you.

If it was toward you I would have taen the time to copy&paste your exact statement. It was not. Some Dude has directly threatend the lives of every Crew member and flight center worker.

Hey a$$ clown before you copy and paste why don't you get the quote right. that wasn't me who said it but you seem to like to distort the facts to fit your view.

If you don't care about financial reports on this or any company man you've really got your head in the sand. Good employees read the financial reports. It gives them an outlook on what is really happening, not in just their company but other companies around them.

Use the search button. NJ data is posted when the annual reports come out. I don't feel like looking I've already read it.

So call me a troll all you want. With your 23 posts and 99 percent of them have been stirring the pot. Take a look at my 800+ posts. Some people might not agree with me, and I've been a d!ck in some of them, I've helped in others, but i am not a troll.

 

[El Chupacabra]

No Diesel is not a troll.


Here is what is happening though.

Union publishes 6S. Reason is to allay any concerns of other company employees.

Company Response to 6S -- reason is to turn others against us.

Somebody who says is from flight center posts criticizing the Union statement by cut and paste straght from the Companys propaganda... like we had not already seen it. Even buys the company line that we charge owners $1 for every $3 a chartered selloff costs. (How do charter companys survive overcharging their customers so much?)


Now some of our pilots lose their cool and attack other departments in the company.

You just fell right into managements trap!

Do not criticize other departments. The MEC has asked you not to do this.

 

[I-R-DXR]

If you don't care about financial reports on this or any company man you've really got your head in the sand. Good employees read the financial reports. It gives them an outlook on what is really happening, not in just their company but other companies around them.

​

I see how the company does in my own way. What is the company doing?​

hiring? layoffs? buying? Whats the mood of the company? Whats every ones outlook?​

​

.​

 

[Diesel]

Hey it's aviation. If it weren't disfunctional it wouldn't be any fun.

 

[I-R-DXR]

LOL

You are right in the financials though. Maybe Ill look them up some time.

.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Hmmm

It has not been fun for a while....

I never thought anyone could do it... but they sure do know how to take the fun out of flying.

 

[netjetwife]

Granted, these are not fun times, but--

http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=121266977&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999