Net Jets Question

[LITCHAT7]

MInd you though, only 50% will be on the 7&7. 40% will be on the 18 day Reserve and 10% will be on the 15 Flex.

I'm sure with all of the NJA posts lately I could find this buried somewhere.....but I guess I'll be lazy and ask if you could explain the differences in these schedules. Is the 7&7 basically a hard line? What is the flex? And last I'm assuming reserve is like any other airline yet would like to clarify. If I were in a gateway city (MSP), would I basically sit here until summoned ......then get airlined out?! And on this note, how much should I expect to be used? I realize this would change probably during different parts of the year.....yet on average how many hours.

Thanks for any info!

 

[Diesel]

I'm sure with all of the NJA posts lately I could find this buried somewhere.....but I guess I'll be lazy and ask if you could explain the differences in these schedules. Is the 7&7 basically a hard line? What is the flex? And last I'm assuming reserve is like any other airline yet would like to clarify. If I were in a gateway city (MSP), would I basically sit here until summoned ......then get airlined out?! And on this note, how much should I expect to be used? I realize this would change probably during different parts of the year.....yet on average how many hours.

jesus man use the search button

 

[imacdog]

MInd you though, only 50% will be on the 7&7. 40% will be on the 18 day Reserve and 10% will be on the 15 Flex.

I believe the 15 day will be the senior schedule
The 18 will be the force schedule
The 7&7 will be prized by most. Yet only half will attain.

Time to do more reading. Seriously. Your numbers are off.

 

[CA1900]

I believe the 15 day will be the senior schedule

I agree.

The 18 will be the force schedule
The 7&7 will be prized by most. Yet only half will attain.

That's impossible, since the 18-day can't be forced on anyone except ones holding supplemental duty positions (like check airman, IOE, etc.) No normal line pilots will be forced onto the 18-day except for major training events, and in those cases it's temporary.

 

[AirBear8]

The 18 day schedule is volunteer only, no one can be junior assigned. The 15 day flex must have 10% of the pilots on it so JA's could happen but it will probably go pretty senior.

Reserve at NJA is not anything like the airlines. It's really more of a "flex" schedule where you don't know what days you'll be working until 6pm Eastern time the night before. You may get a brief for standby duty at home or at the hotel. In that case you must be ready to walk out the door in 30 minutes. If you have a full crew and a good jet you may spend a lot of time on "Hot Spare" at the FBO. You just sit around and read/watch tv/scratch your ass or whatever until briefed to go somewhere or shut down and sent to the hotel. During the slow months you may spend a lot of time on hot spare. I've had a 7 day tour where I never even turned a wheel. 5 days hotel standby waiting for a good jet and hot spare for 1.5 days. On hot spare crew meals are catered in to you but on home/hotel standby you're on your own dime to eat.

I should point out only the 15 day flex will have any uncertainly about what day's you're working. The new 18 day schedule is fixed, you will know your work days by the 15th of the prior month. And of course the 7/7 schedule is fixed. You'll know your workdays for up to a year in advance.

AirBear

 

[RP170]

The 18 day schedule is volunteer only, no one can be junior assigned. The 15 day flex must have 10% of the pilots on it

Will the 15 day be limited to only 10% of the pilots or is that a # that could vary?

 

[RideandDrive]

MInd you though, only 50% will be on the 7&7. 40% will be on the 18 day Reserve and 10% will be on the 15 Flex.

I believe the 15 day will be the senior schedule
The 18 will be the force schedule
The 7&7 will be prized by most. Yet only half will attain.

This is incorrect. They can only junior man 10 % to the 15 day schedule and none to the 18. The 7 and 7 will be available to 90% who want it.

 

[imacdog]

Will the 15 day be limited to only 10% of the pilots or is that a # that could vary?

10%, no more and no less. If one out of five pilots in a fleet/seat decide to give it a try, it won't even get to the bottom 1/2 of the seniority list on that fleet/seat. Conversely, if one out of every 20 pilots in the fleet/seat decide to bid it, then the bottom 5% of that group will be junior assigned to the schedule.

 

[AirBear8]

Will the 15 day be limited to only 10% of the pilots or is that a # that could vary?

Limited to 10%, period. Both the min and the max.

Now the 18 day can go from 0% up to 40%. It may be less than 40% if, for example 25% of the PIC's in a given fleet bid it but 35% of SIC's do. The company may reduce the SIC awards to 25% so as not to have a mismatch. I'm not 100% certain on that so don't quote me but I think that's right.

AirBear

 

[RP170]

Sounds good. The union reps are coming in to talk to our new hire class tomorrow and talk about the IBB so hopefully some of it will be clarified then.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Thanks AirBear......

Time go re-re-re-read the "questions" section on the board.

I am curious as to how the Company is going to set up the schedules though.

 

[leenick]

OK, This one is for all the former airline guys at Net Jets. I'm a regional Capt. about to start year 9 with a brand new contract. Money is OK and QOL is pretty good. I've done the corporate thing in a former life and a friend of mine has been begging me to jump over to NetJets. I'm batting the idea around, but I need a little more info than just contract language. Pros and Cons. Was it worth it? Yada Yada Yada. Any help in this area would greatly be appreciated.

It would seem to me that if you are happy where you are, why switch, just to make a few extra dollars and fly non stop for 7 days in a small cramped up jet, because I know for sure, you won't be climbing into a large, or even medium size jet for at least 4 years or so, not to mention you will be going right, and not left for your seat, after you have carried and loaded the baggage of the passengers. With all the if's of the new contract, you may make a big mistake leaving a good QOL that you and your family have enjoyed for 9 years, to take a job that MIGHT pay more and MIGHT let you upgrade in 4 years or so.
Remember, you can always go to another job if you have to, but I would stay put, earn my money, enjoy my QOL with my family for another 11 years, then retire from that company, and go flying all over the world for some other company, if flying to many different destinations is really what you want.
As you know, pilots, along with most everybody else, are always looking for greener pastures, better QOL, less work, yada, yada, yada.
Just my thoughts, I know that my thoughts are not for everyone, but you asked and I gave my 2 cents worth.
GOOD LUCK!!

 

[theskyking]

It would seem to me that if you are happy where you are, why switch, just to make a few extra dollars and fly non stop for 7 days in a small cramped up jet, because I know for sure, you won't be climbing into a large, or even medium size jet for at least 4 years or so, not to mention you will be going right, and not left for your seat, after you have carried and loaded the baggage of the passengers. With all the if's of the new contract, you may make a big mistake leaving a good QOL that you and your family have enjoyed for 9 years, to take a job that MIGHT pay more and MIGHT let you upgrade in 4 years or so.
Remember, you can always go to another job if you have to, but I would stay put, earn my money, enjoy my QOL with my family for another 11 years, then retire from that company, and go flying all over the world for some other company, if flying to many different destinations is really what you want.
As you know, pilots, along with most everybody else, are always looking for greener pastures, better QOL, less work, yada, yada, yada.
Just my thoughts, I know that my thoughts are not for everyone, but you asked and I gave my 2 cents worth.
GOOD LUCK!!

That's not entirley true. A new hire can be put into any of the airplanes on property. I'm sure the chances are better in getting something like the Excel over the Falcon, but certainly could happen depending on what the company needs at the time.

Other than that, nice post. I did leave a regional as a 5 year captain to come to NJ. I love it. But there's a big difference between 5 year and 11 year QOL.

I might second some other's suggestions to put your resume in and see if you can get a free, 2 day, all expenses paid trip to Columbus. Watch the dog and pony show and then sit down with your wife and make an informed choice.

Good luck.

 

[Swaayze]

What is the max length of tour on the 18 day sked? I believe I saw you can opt (?) for 5 days max on the 15, yes?

 

[Guitar Guy]

What is the max length of tour on the 18 day sked? I believe I saw you can opt (?) for 5 days max on the 15, yes?

Once per bid period (which is 4 months), the company can extend a 7-day tour to 8 days. Once they do that, you'll be owed a minimum of 5 days off. And of course, that would remove one more working day from that month. So if that happened on the first tour of a month, you'd only be on the hook for another 10 days of work.

On the 15-day Flex schedule, the tours are 5 days in length with a minimum of 3 days off after a tour. There is no other tour length on this schedule.

I hope that answers your question.

 

[captain dad]

OK, This one is for all the former airline guys at Net Jets. I'm a regional Capt. about to start year 9 with a brand new contract. Money is OK and QOL is pretty good. I've done the corporate thing in a former life and a friend of mine has been begging me to jump over to NetJets. I'm batting the idea around, but I need a little more info than just contract language. Pros and Cons. Was it worth it? Yada Yada Yada. Any help in this area would greatly be appreciated.

I was in the exact same spot you are in about a year ago. I made the jump and commuted to my base. Paying $100 for one way tickets and getting paid $39,000 a year. Even then, it was still well worth it.

Now, with this new TA on the verge of being voted in(arguably), anyone would be a fool not to make the jump. A net gain of around 60 aircraft next year alone and 125 annual attrition means a minimum of 450 pilots hired next year. Add that to airline pay scale(5 year FO=$68k to $83k & 5 year Capt. =$100k to $122k), great benefits, 100 bases, easy work schedule (compared to what you are used to), cool airplanes, rich and famous passengers, variety of locations, treated like a human instead of an animal, etc., etc., etc...

Do it and don't look back. I will never regret it, and I am never going back to the airlines.

My new goal is to some day fly the QSST before I retire. I heard we are putting an order it to the skunk works in the spring.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Once per bid period (which is 4 months), the company can extend a 7-day tour to 8 days. Once they do that, you'll be owed a minimum of 5 days off. And of course, that would remove one more working day from that month. So if that happened on the first tour of a month, you'd only be on the hook for another 10 days of work.

I think they have to build that 8-day tour into your fixed schedule. You'd know about it by the 15th of the month prior.

 

[imacdog]

Once per bid period (which is 4 months), the company can extend a 7-day tour to 8 days. Once they do that, you'll be owed a minimum of 5 days off. And of course, that would remove one more working day from that month. So if that happened on the first tour of a month, you'd only be on the hook for another 10 days of work.

On the 15-day Flex schedule, the tours are 5 days in length with a minimum of 3 days off after a tour. There is no other tour length on this schedule.

I hope that answers your question.

Two things:
1) you'll know about the 8-day trip in advance, since it is a fixed schedule.

2) there is no minimum tour length on the 15-day. Will the company generally send you out for the full five, probably, but it doesn't prevent them from sending you on a shorter trip if they only need you for a couple days.

 

[Usual Suspect]

On the 15-day Flex schedule, the tours are 5 days in length with a minimum of 3 days off after a tour. There is no other tour length on this schedule.

The 15-day flex tour length is up to 5 days long with at least 3 days off regardless of actual tour length. See below.

19.1(C) 15-Day Flex Schedule: General Description
The 15-Day Flex Schedule will consist of no more than fifteen (15) required work days in a single calendar month except as provided in this Section 19. The maximum tour length for a crewmember on the 15-Day Flex Schedule is five (5) consecutive work days. The Company will schedule a minimum of three (3) consecutive days off following any duty tour on the 15-Day Flex Schedule, regardless of length.

Sorry to be repetitive, Imacdog beat me to it.

 

[LITCHAT7]

jesus man use the search button

Yeaaaaah....thanks for the help...you can go ahead and just kiss my a$$....not on the left side...or the right side.....but right in the middle...