Net Jets Question

[OpsCheckGood]

OK, This one is for all the former airline guys at Net Jets. I'm a regional Capt. about to start year 9 with a brand new contract. Money is OK and QOL is pretty good. I've done the corporate thing in a former life and a friend of mine has been begging me to jump over to NetJets. I'm batting the idea around, but I need a little more info than just contract language. Pros and Cons. Was it worth it? Yada Yada Yada. Any help in this area would greatly be appreciated.

 

[imacdog]

Hi Ops, I made the jump from a regional to NetJets. Before the regional I flew passenger and freight 135 in piston aircraft and really enjoyed that type of flying. In my opinion, fractional flying combines the best of the airlines (schedule, contract, standardization, etc) with the best aspects of charter/corporate flying (good equipment, interesting destinations, wide variety of flying, etc). As far as NetJets in particular, we are treated well and have a good group to fly with. If you are interested in the fine details of what we do, you can download our contract from www.ibt1108.org . Overall I'm happy I made the decision to go to NetJets - it isn't for everyone but it is a good job.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Ops....

The app process is going to get alot longer for 2008, especially is the new contract proposal passes opening up the crew bases to 100 and giving the F/O a substantial pay increase.

I also believe thatthose apps from current frac pilots from other companies might get put to the top of the list for interviews. Many of them are already current and typed in the a/c NJA flies and they have a pretty good understanding of what is involved flying for a frac.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Hey Ops

You appear to be satisfied with your current job. Why would you give up nine years seniority? You're master of your domain right now, but you'll go back to the right seat for like 4 years. You'll lose your jumpseat privileges and your flight attendant. Is it worth it?

I can think of reasons why someone would want to switch, but I've never met anyone who admitted that they liked the Regionals. If you're happy and you know it...

 

[OpsCheckGood]

Thanks guys, Those are the things I've been considering. My buddy paints a very pretty picture over at the fracs, and there's no arguing that the money is better. But, I'm 3/4 of the way down the list where I am and life isn't that bad. There are things I don't like about my current place of employment, but I'm not quite sure if it's worth going to the right seat and the bottom of the list at a company with very little attrition. Sounds like a good deal over there with a little bit of fun and a lot of nice bennies. The future money would be nice though..........time to pull out the magic 8-ball I guess.

 

[Schicer]

I'd say apply, interview, get offered the job, then make up your mind. Sounds to me like the whole process takes a while and it may get even worse if the IBB goes through.

 

[skiandsurf]

Leaving regionals for NJs??? Sure, why not. Would you leave your current job for JetBlue? or Airtran?

If this IBB vote passes, you will start out at $59,000. I am guessing that is close to what your making now. Upgrades will be slow, but the FO pay might be livable.

How many of your FOs quit NJs to work at your commuter? I am guessing that answer is none.

NJs can be a career job. How many of your 5 year captains are making $100,000? Almost all of NJs are.

 

[I Hate Freight]

But for a regional f/o like myself, making $35k, it's a no-brainer. Sure I lose my jumpseat priveliges, but with an extra $25k+, I think I can buy a ticket for the one or two times a year I go somewhere.

 

[OpsCheckGood]

I'm not comparing companies. I understand the hands down winner there. In 5 years I'll upgrade and make 100 there. In 5 years I'll have 14 in and be making that here. NJ's money goes up quite substantially after that though. It's the other factors that I'm interested in. Do you guys miss long overnights by the pool with good crews? Does 7days on get to be normal and tolerable, because 4 seems like to long right now. The lack of friends and family being able to travel with your passes. It's these things I'm wondering if it's worth giving up. The money is black and white. It's better over there, but I'm not in the poor house now. Is there more to it than money?

 

[johnsonrod]

I'm not comparing companies. I understand the hands down winner there. In 5 years I'll upgrade and make 100 there. In 5 years I'll have 14 in and be making that here. NJ's money goes up quite substantially after that though. It's the other factors that I'm interested in. Do you guys miss long overnights by the pool with good crews? Does 7days on get to be normal and tolerable, because 4 seems like to long right now. The lack of friends and family being able to travel with your passes. It's these things I'm wondering if it's worth giving up. The money is black and white. It's better over there, but I'm not in the poor house now. Is there more to it than money?

Regional flying is waaay too boring for me. I have been at my regional for years too and I am looking for good pay (after a few years), route variety (I am so bored with my routes) and nice equipment (Citation X, G200 or a Sovereign would be very nice).

I'd say get on with Netjets now if you have the chance and beat the rush... If you were very secure with your current position you wouldn't be considering alternatives like Netjets. I would get the interview and evaluate from there...

 

[infoman]

Opscheck,

Not sure if I can answer the question but I will try.

Overnites average 12 hours but that helps the week pass.

No friends or family on the road but with the 7/7 you can plane your time off together. Also two weeks of vacation is two 21 day blocks off (5 yrs 3, 10 yrs 4).

There are some new scheduling options that are coming with the new IBB (Interest Base Barganing) proposal. This will give you a choice other than 7/7.

With the hotel points you get free rooms and rental cars. The remaing cost is usally airfare and food.

I don't work the point rewards system like some but if you put your mind to it I venture your travel benefits will not be missed.

We do not and I don't see the company allowing us to jump seat but never say never I guess.

Also remeber you may start in the Ultra.

Hope this helps.

Infoman.

P.S.The nice thing about the interview is that the company will pay for airline, hotel, and ground. Cheap way to look the place over.

 

[skiandsurf]

I'm not comparing companies. I understand the hands down winner there. In 5 years I'll upgrade and make 100 there. In 5 years I'll have 14 in and be making that here. NJ's money goes up quite substantially after that though. It's the other factors that I'm interested in. Do you guys miss long overnights by the pool with good crews? Does 7days on get to be normal and tolerable, because 4 seems like to long right now. The lack of friends and family being able to travel with your passes. It's these things I'm wondering if it's worth giving up. The money is black and white. It's better over there, but I'm not in the poor house now. Is there more to it than money?

Here is a better question...job security. What airline makes money in a bad economy? What regional airline is NOTdisposable by the major affiliate?

You are right about the typical short overnights, but I have had 24 hr Maui layovers (with a crew car), I have had 18 hrs in MIA (again, with a crew car). But there are plenty of 10 hour overnights as well. Remember, you are at work, not on vacation.

If you like flying into the same 20 or 30 airports that your airline serves, stay put. If you like going all over the place, NJs is great.

 

[netjetwife]

OCG, my husband was furloughed from AA so he can compare the different styles of flying. He prefers frac flying because of the greater interaction w/pax, the variety in places you go, more challenges making all the variables and changes come together. Additionally, many times you are paired with the same pilot for a whole tour which gives you the chance to get to know your fellow pilots better.

As a family we adjusted fairly easily to the 7&7 schedule. Having a week off gives us the opportunity to take mini-vacations when the kids are out of school. And he can get involved in projects that require a block of time off. For him, not having to commute was a big QOL factor. It was easier/less stressful for my husband and gave us more family time together. Hopefully the IBB proposal will pass and many other NJ pilots will also see their QOL improve with a huge jump in the number of bases to choose from. Going from 5 to 100 will create lots of interest so I don't think you'll be alone if you apply. I agree w/others who suggest that is something to think about.
Good luck in your decision!
NJW

 

[RP170]

Also remeber you may start in the Ultra.

Hey now! I thought the Beechjet was worse?

 

[Mach92]

Hey now! I thought the Beechjet was worse?

We have XM radio in the BEECH .........It's not that bad!

 

[flyer172r]

I have had 24 hr Maui layovers (with a crew car), I have had 18 hrs in MIA (again, with a crew car).

I was actually curious about how you got between whichever FBO you finish at and the hotel. Do you normally get cars or do you normally depend on the hotel shuttle?

 

[Hawker dude]

I was actually curious about how you got between whichever FBO you finish at and the hotel. Do you normally get cars or do you normally depend on the hotel shuttle?

what ever it takes. the company reimburses you.

 

[otto feather]

Something to consider

NJA

7 on/7 off = 26 work weeks a year minus 2 weeks vacation = 24 work weeks X ~ $260 per diem a work week = $6240 in total per diem.

NJA provides crew meals. While looking at salaries figure banking a majority of per diem. I figure 80%.

 

[DO-82 driver]

MInd you though, only 50% will be on the 7&7. 40% will be on the 18 day Reserve and 10% will be on the 15 Flex.

I believe the 15 day will be the senior schedule
The 18 will be the force schedule
The 7&7 will be prized by most. Yet only half will attain.

 

[fischman]

I was actually curious about how you got between whichever FBO you finish at and the hotel. Do you normally get cars or do you normally depend on the hotel shuttle?

Hotel van, FBO van, cab, sedan, crew car, rental car, whatever it takes. Your biggest responsibility is to make sure it is safe for you and your crew. The company reimburses you for the expense.

 

[LITCHAT7]

MInd you though, only 50% will be on the 7&7. 40% will be on the 18 day Reserve and 10% will be on the 15 Flex.

I'm sure with all of the NJA posts lately I could find this buried somewhere.....but I guess I'll be lazy and ask if you could explain the differences in these schedules. Is the 7&7 basically a hard line? What is the flex? And last I'm assuming reserve is like any other airline yet would like to clarify. If I were in a gateway city (MSP), would I basically sit here until summoned ......then get airlined out?! And on this note, how much should I expect to be used? I realize this would change probably during different parts of the year.....yet on average how many hours.

Thanks for any info!

 

[Diesel]

I'm sure with all of the NJA posts lately I could find this buried somewhere.....but I guess I'll be lazy and ask if you could explain the differences in these schedules. Is the 7&7 basically a hard line? What is the flex? And last I'm assuming reserve is like any other airline yet would like to clarify. If I were in a gateway city (MSP), would I basically sit here until summoned ......then get airlined out?! And on this note, how much should I expect to be used? I realize this would change probably during different parts of the year.....yet on average how many hours.

jesus man use the search button

 

[imacdog]

MInd you though, only 50% will be on the 7&7. 40% will be on the 18 day Reserve and 10% will be on the 15 Flex.

I believe the 15 day will be the senior schedule
The 18 will be the force schedule
The 7&7 will be prized by most. Yet only half will attain.

Time to do more reading. Seriously. Your numbers are off.

 

[CA1900]

I believe the 15 day will be the senior schedule

I agree.

The 18 will be the force schedule
The 7&7 will be prized by most. Yet only half will attain.

That's impossible, since the 18-day can't be forced on anyone except ones holding supplemental duty positions (like check airman, IOE, etc.) No normal line pilots will be forced onto the 18-day except for major training events, and in those cases it's temporary.

 

[AirBear8]

The 18 day schedule is volunteer only, no one can be junior assigned. The 15 day flex must have 10% of the pilots on it so JA's could happen but it will probably go pretty senior.

Reserve at NJA is not anything like the airlines. It's really more of a "flex" schedule where you don't know what days you'll be working until 6pm Eastern time the night before. You may get a brief for standby duty at home or at the hotel. In that case you must be ready to walk out the door in 30 minutes. If you have a full crew and a good jet you may spend a lot of time on "Hot Spare" at the FBO. You just sit around and read/watch tv/scratch your ass or whatever until briefed to go somewhere or shut down and sent to the hotel. During the slow months you may spend a lot of time on hot spare. I've had a 7 day tour where I never even turned a wheel. 5 days hotel standby waiting for a good jet and hot spare for 1.5 days. On hot spare crew meals are catered in to you but on home/hotel standby you're on your own dime to eat.

I should point out only the 15 day flex will have any uncertainly about what day's you're working. The new 18 day schedule is fixed, you will know your work days by the 15th of the prior month. And of course the 7/7 schedule is fixed. You'll know your workdays for up to a year in advance.

AirBear

 

[RP170]

The 18 day schedule is volunteer only, no one can be junior assigned. The 15 day flex must have 10% of the pilots on it

Will the 15 day be limited to only 10% of the pilots or is that a # that could vary?

 

[RideandDrive]

MInd you though, only 50% will be on the 7&7. 40% will be on the 18 day Reserve and 10% will be on the 15 Flex.

I believe the 15 day will be the senior schedule
The 18 will be the force schedule
The 7&7 will be prized by most. Yet only half will attain.

This is incorrect. They can only junior man 10 % to the 15 day schedule and none to the 18. The 7 and 7 will be available to 90% who want it.

 

[imacdog]

Will the 15 day be limited to only 10% of the pilots or is that a # that could vary?

10%, no more and no less. If one out of five pilots in a fleet/seat decide to give it a try, it won't even get to the bottom 1/2 of the seniority list on that fleet/seat. Conversely, if one out of every 20 pilots in the fleet/seat decide to bid it, then the bottom 5% of that group will be junior assigned to the schedule.

 

[AirBear8]

Will the 15 day be limited to only 10% of the pilots or is that a # that could vary?

Limited to 10%, period. Both the min and the max.

Now the 18 day can go from 0% up to 40%. It may be less than 40% if, for example 25% of the PIC's in a given fleet bid it but 35% of SIC's do. The company may reduce the SIC awards to 25% so as not to have a mismatch. I'm not 100% certain on that so don't quote me but I think that's right.

AirBear

 

[RP170]

Sounds good. The union reps are coming in to talk to our new hire class tomorrow and talk about the IBB so hopefully some of it will be clarified then.