National seniority list.

[waveflyer]

An NSL wouldn't work unless you could move freely - carrier to carrier when vacancies occurred.

 

[~~~^~~~]

We all know there is, and was, a tremendous amount of luck associated with getting hired wherever you are.

Luck, yes. But many only applied with their #1 choice and were hired there. This is true of most pilots at SWA, FDX and DAL.

It isn't fair to be able to hedge one's bets by taking a risky street captain job with a start up at way below industry wages, then use that position to double down on a job with a more established carrier.

UAL would not support this if SkyBus pilots were lining up for interviews.

 

[PCL_128]

For once I'm agreeing with JoeyMerchant and disagreeing with Fins and the General. Weird.

 

[FR8mastr]

Luck, yes. But many only applied with their #1 choice and were hired there. This is true of most pilots at SWA, FDX and DAL.

It isn't fair to be able to hedge one's bets by taking a risky street captain job with a start up at way below industry wages, then use that position to double down on a job with a more established carrier.

UAL would not support this if SkyBus pilots were lining up for interviews.

I agree that everyone with a pilots license has SWA and FDX as there end all beat all of jobs now, this was not the case 10 years ago. Yes there are always individuals that want a certain carrier and they go for it. However the carrier du jour may not be in such good graces 10 years from now.
Your other points are valid and would have to be addressed to protect the pilots that you have described. In the end, (the big picture) the profession would be much better off. If our kids were crazy enough to follow us into this mess their carreer stability would ourperform ours handily. Remember the other unions have been doing it this way forever, it seems to work.

 

[~~~^~~~]

For once I'm agreeing with JoeyMerchant and disagreeing with Fins and the General. Weird.

It is an interesting academic debate. How can United continue to justify outsourcing schemes and scope that have non-united pilots performing UAL flying, while they want to transport seniority rights to FDX, CAL or DAL?

Obviously they want some flying, but not flying they consider to be beneath them.

If they are coming at this from a morality angle, they need to clean up their own house first.

 

[Mamma]

I don't think the NSL will work out. It has some merits but I don't think you could overcome the airline's reluctance to this. They don't want to hire more expensive guys. I think what we should be working on is a national wage rate. I think this has a better shot at working. Pilot reps from each airline, (union and non-union) work with managements from each airline and establish a standard wage for aircraft type. They could pay more if they wanted but could not pay less. Management likes to have things known down the road. If this happened then all the airlines would be on the same sheet in regards to pilot pay and we as pilots would have more stability. This may come to bite us in the ass though if the wage agreed upon sucks.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

I would have been MUCH more impressed if this was introduced in 2000, when UAL had a "poolie list" link at the top of the page here.

As it stands, the timing looks suspect now that UAL is orbiting the water exhaust receptacle.

IMHO, this thing will be accepted "for study", where it will languish in some committee for a couple of years, when it will finally be taken out and whacked over the head with a shovel.

Nu

 

[vprMatrix]

So why does anyone deserve my job and on the flip side why do I deserve to take someones job?

Just because I'm a pilot....?

God I love socialism.:bomb:

 

[B190Captain]

What happens to FO Johnny at airline XYZ when airline ABC goes Tango Uniform? Does he get furloughed so the more senior pilots at airline ABC can hold onto a job? When an airline furloughs, do the guys at the bottom of the national list end up getting the shaft, regardless of how good or bad their carrier is doing?

Also, when an airline is hiring, must they always take the most senior person who applied? What if the person at the top of the list is borderline incompetent and the hiring board decides they really don't want him? What happens then?

Too many unknowns.

The answer is no. If a pilot loses his job due to the carrier he works for no longer exists then he will gain employment at a carrier and his seat and longevity and pay grade will resume. If the new carrier does not operate the aircraft the pilot is from then it will be the most equivalent equipment available. If the pilot has longevity to hold captain then he will only get it if a slot is available therefore eliminating the downgrade possibility. NO more losing your job and starting all over again sh*t.

If a pilot is incompetent then he will fall under pro-standards review or possible standard griveance procedure or something along those lines.

 

[~~~^~~~]

B190:

OK, so there are 10 jobs at Mesa, 6 at SkyWest, 1 at SWA and 1 at FDX and 108 applicants. Who gets what and how?

 

[8v8ter]

This would at least bring being a pilot closer to an actual profession with freedom of movement as opposed to being handcuffed to a single company and having to ride it all the way down because leaving would entail starting over. An Accountant or Attorney, etc., can leave for any reason if he doesn't like the direction his/her firm is going and usually makes more at the new company.

 

[FlyinGuy]

If there are 108 applicants, then the carriers should make room for all of them. I mean why should someone be left out. Maybe we could bring the airlines under a government system and work on a GS payscale. A NSL is a pipe dream that would only work in a perfect world. There would be a never ending stream of greavances and law suits if anything like this was ever tried.

 

[noperf]

Who gets the jobs? That's easy. A commitee formed by ALPA National. It will be an example of ALPA cronyism at it's finest. All these proposals are great in theory. If it comes to say selectivity based on your CPL, ATPL, or years of ALPA membership I'll be in great shape.

 

[Dan Roman]

[

If they are coming at this from a morality angle, they need to clean up their own house first.[/quote]


Good point. Interesting their use of the term career expectations. You might want to ask a USAir guy how he feels about UAL MEC's definition of career expectations and seniority.
I'm sorry, but this seems like a blatant seniority grab for UAL's membership. Should UAL crater, they are effectivly trying to say that all airline jobs should go to them for the foreseable future. Anybody flying for a regional will never leave their regional till all of UAL's ex pilots have a job, how many years would that take?

 

[noperf]

Career expectations might be the wrong phrase. I think there's lot's of guys on the streets who thought they had carrer expectations only to find out that they had none.