MY throttles, pal!

GravityHater

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After I stand them up, I ask the FO to 'Set Power, please' and this one guy seems to take forever tweaking and adjusting.... soon it is V1 and instead of removing MY hands from them and going to the yoke, I find HIS hands still on them!
How long does he get - crap I can usually set them within 1% in 5 seconds.

I am looking for any suggestions about the topic before I bring it up with him.
 

viper548

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where I work, the FP sets the thrust within a couple percent of target then the NFP adjusts thrust to target. All this is done before 60 knots
 

bafanguy

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GravityHater said:
How long does he get -

.

As long as you allow, Captain. Perhaps, "...that's good, I have the throttles..." would work.
 

V-1

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How close to the predetermined setting do you get them on the initial push? I've flown with guys who are lucky to hit 40% N1 on their push...requiring me to spend the next five seconds trying to properly set it...if we're light, we might be close to 100 kts. before it gets set properly.

I agree excessive fine tuning is unnecessary...particularly with reduced thrust usage.
 

TonyC

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GravityHater said:
After I stand them up, I ask the FO to 'Set Power, please' and this one guy seems to take forever tweaking and adjusting.... soon it is V1 and instead of removing MY hands from them and going to the yoke, I find HIS hands still on them!
How long does he get - crap I can usually set them within 1% in 5 seconds.

I am looking for any suggestions about the topic before I bring it up with him.
The takeoff data (V speeds, distances, etc.) on the turbojets, turbofans I've flown has been predicated on the power being set by 80 knots. The power settings are going to vary with increasing airspeed anyway, so set a limit. Brief the takeoff to include, "Have the power set by 80 knots and then don't touch the throttles (thrust levers, if you prefer :) )" Coincidentally, we also verbalize an airpseed indicator cross check at 80 knots, so there's no doubt who "owns" the throttles from that point on. You may want to have the FO announce Takeoff Power set (we announce "Standard Power set" or "Max power set") or "Your throttles" or something to that effect.


However you do it, you must define your expectations, or you cannot expect the FO to meet them.




.
 

Diesel

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Click click click. T/O power set.

look over yup you idiot you did hear it click.

plus it gives you a nice pretty t/o in green over the n1.
 

bafanguy

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TonyC said:
However you do it, you must define your expectations, or you cannot expect the FO to meet them.




.

Truer words were never spoken. But, what does your company ops manual or POM say about something as routine as setting TO power ? You wouldn't think something that basic would require a lot of "policy", but considering the consequences of any confusion about who does what nearing V1, it's worth a bit of flt ops management's attention re training and policy.

As an example, ours said, "The captain will have his hand on the top portion of the throttles until V1 since the decision to reject or continue rests with him." You can still keep your hand in a position to stop while your partner fine tunes( if he loses a finger in the abort...he loses a finger). You wouldn't want to get near/beyond V1 with the FO's hands, and not yours, on the throttles.

If he spends an inordinate amount of attention on that, how much is he devoting to backing you up on the airspeed/callouts as you near V1 ?

As usual, everything TonyC said is dead on.
 
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shamrock

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Oops. Reading the title of this post I thought somebody had finally gotten sick of a certain captain at ASA messing with the power on FO legs.

Guess I'll have to withhold my comments for now.

Carry on.
 

414Flyer

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I thought airline pilots were supposed to hold hands during takeoff...
 

EagleRJ

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I hate the pilots who try to do a "passenger comfort" takeoff. I had a guy once tell me that it scares the passengers to be pressed back in their seats on takeoff, so eases the power up very slowly.

I've seen FOs do that recently, to the point where we're passing 100 knots and he still doesn't have the power up all the way! That may be smoother for the passengers, but your takeoff performance numbers go right out the window when you do that.

I'm not saying every takeoff has to be takeoff thrust before releasing the brake, but people need to get it in there in a reasonable amount of time.


GravityHater-

What kind of engine gauges are you dealing with? Do you use %N1 or EPR? Maybe the guy thinks the numbers have to be exactly what the T/O planning calls for. Maybe just tell him that "within 3% is good" and see if he's quicker about it.
 
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Thedude

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414Flyer said:
I thought airline pilots were supposed to hold hands during takeoff...

Thats only on landing and its called a "coupled approach"
 

Thedude

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EagleRJ said:
I hate the pilots who try to do a "passenger comfort" takeoff.

????
Can you plz enlighten me on what this is. A little more detail..i have never heard of this.
 

Lead Sled

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GravityHater said:
After I stand them up, I ask the FO to 'Set Power, please' and this one guy seems to take forever tweaking and adjusting.... soon it is V1 and instead of removing MY hands from them and going to the yoke, I find HIS hands still on them!
How long does he get - crap I can usually set them within 1% in 5 seconds.

I am looking for any suggestions about the topic before I bring it up with him.
Just out of curiosity, what are you flying?

'Sled
 

bafanguy

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EagleRJ said:
I've seen FOs do that recently, to the point where we're passing 100 knots and he still doesn't have the power up all the way! That may be smoother for the passengers, but your takeoff performance numbers go right out the window when you do that.



.

Perhaps there are some training and standardization issues involved here if the FOs don't understand why that's not a good idea. Perhaps you, as the captain, should step in and help the FOs learn what you have just shown you already know. They're only trying to do what they perceive as the "right thing". Help them see what that really is.
 

atrdriver

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Our POH states that the power will be set by 60 knots, if that helps.
 

Tarzan

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Thedude said:
????
Can you plz enlighten me on what this is. A little more detail..i have never heard of this.

I heard that some people flare the airplane or some nonsense like that. I like to pretend like it's a carrier landing and just fly it right inot the deck. Makes me feel like I land with authori-tie.
 

Hugh Johnson

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Yep
This one is way too easy guys. its hard to believe there is a discussion. All performance figures for runway required etc are based on max (or takeoff) power being set BEFORE BRAKE RELEASE. The manuals on our aircraft even give us the T/O N1 setting. What are you guys doing fooling with the power while the aircraft is moving.
 
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