MY throttles, pal!

[GravityHater]

After I stand them up, I ask the FO to 'Set Power, please' and this one guy seems to take forever tweaking and adjusting.... soon it is V1 and instead of removing MY hands from them and going to the yoke, I find HIS hands still on them!
How long does he get - crap I can usually set them within 1% in 5 seconds.

I am looking for any suggestions about the topic before I bring it up with him.

 

[viper548]

where I work, the FP sets the thrust within a couple percent of target then the NFP adjusts thrust to target. All this is done before 60 knots

 

[bafanguy]

How long does he get -

.

As long as you allow, Captain. Perhaps, "...that's good, I have the throttles..." would work.

 

[V-1]

How close to the predetermined setting do you get them on the initial push? I've flown with guys who are lucky to hit 40% N1 on their push...requiring me to spend the next five seconds trying to properly set it...if we're light, we might be close to 100 kts. before it gets set properly.

I agree excessive fine tuning is unnecessary...particularly with reduced thrust usage.

 

[TonyC]

After I stand them up, I ask the FO to 'Set Power, please' and this one guy seems to take forever tweaking and adjusting.... soon it is V1 and instead of removing MY hands from them and going to the yoke, I find HIS hands still on them!
How long does he get - crap I can usually set them within 1% in 5 seconds.

I am looking for any suggestions about the topic before I bring it up with him.

The takeoff data (V speeds, distances, etc.) on the turbojets, turbofans I've flown has been predicated on the power being set by 80 knots. The power settings are going to vary with increasing airspeed anyway, so set a limit. Brief the takeoff to include, "Have the power set by 80 knots and then don't touch the throttles (thrust levers, if you prefer )" Coincidentally, we also verbalize an airpseed indicator cross check at 80 knots, so there's no doubt who "owns" the throttles from that point on. You may want to have the FO announce Takeoff Power set (we announce "Standard Power set" or "Max power set") or "Your throttles" or something to that effect.


However you do it, you must define your expectations, or you cannot expect the FO to meet them.




.

 

[GravityHater]

This is helping, I know what to do now.
Thanks, scholars.

 

[viper548]

Did he go to Riddle?

 

[Diesel]

Click click click. T/O power set.

look over yup you idiot you did hear it click.

plus it gives you a nice pretty t/o in green over the n1.

 

[Tarzan]

Detent is nice. No guessing on them.

 

[bafanguy]

However you do it, you must define your expectations, or you cannot expect the FO to meet them.




.

Truer words were never spoken. But, what does your company ops manual or POM say about something as routine as setting TO power ? You wouldn't think something that basic would require a lot of "policy", but considering the consequences of any confusion about who does what nearing V1, it's worth a bit of flt ops management's attention re training and policy.

As an example, ours said, "The captain will have his hand on the top portion of the throttles until V1 since the decision to reject or continue rests with him." You can still keep your hand in a position to stop while your partner fine tunes( if he loses a finger in the abort...he loses a finger). You wouldn't want to get near/beyond V1 with the FO's hands, and not yours, on the throttles.

If he spends an inordinate amount of attention on that, how much is he devoting to backing you up on the airspeed/callouts as you near V1 ?

As usual, everything TonyC said is dead on.

 

[shamrock]

Oops. Reading the title of this post I thought somebody had finally gotten sick of a certain captain at ASA messing with the power on FO legs.

Guess I'll have to withhold my comments for now.

Carry on.

 

[414Flyer]

I thought airline pilots were supposed to hold hands during takeoff...

 

[EagleRJ]

I hate the pilots who try to do a "passenger comfort" takeoff. I had a guy once tell me that it scares the passengers to be pressed back in their seats on takeoff, so eases the power up very slowly.

I've seen FOs do that recently, to the point where we're passing 100 knots and he still doesn't have the power up all the way! That may be smoother for the passengers, but your takeoff performance numbers go right out the window when you do that.

I'm not saying every takeoff has to be takeoff thrust before releasing the brake, but people need to get it in there in a reasonable amount of time.


GravityHater-

What kind of engine gauges are you dealing with? Do you use %N1 or EPR? Maybe the guy thinks the numbers have to be exactly what the T/O planning calls for. Maybe just tell him that "within 3% is good" and see if he's quicker about it.

 

[Thedude]

I thought airline pilots were supposed to hold hands during takeoff...

Thats only on landing and its called a "coupled approach"

 

[Thedude]

I hate the pilots who try to do a "passenger comfort" takeoff.

????
Can you plz enlighten me on what this is. A little more detail..i have never heard of this.

 

[Lead Sled]

After I stand them up, I ask the FO to 'Set Power, please' and this one guy seems to take forever tweaking and adjusting.... soon it is V1 and instead of removing MY hands from them and going to the yoke, I find HIS hands still on them!
How long does he get - crap I can usually set them within 1% in 5 seconds.

I am looking for any suggestions about the topic before I bring it up with him.

Just out of curiosity, what are you flying?

'Sled

 

[bafanguy]

I've seen FOs do that recently, to the point where we're passing 100 knots and he still doesn't have the power up all the way! That may be smoother for the passengers, but your takeoff performance numbers go right out the window when you do that.



.

Perhaps there are some training and standardization issues involved here if the FOs don't understand why that's not a good idea. Perhaps you, as the captain, should step in and help the FOs learn what you have just shown you already know. They're only trying to do what they perceive as the "right thing". Help them see what that really is.

 

[atrdriver]

Our POH states that the power will be set by 60 knots, if that helps.

 

[Tarzan]

????
Can you plz enlighten me on what this is. A little more detail..i have never heard of this.

I heard that some people flare the airplane or some nonsense like that. I like to pretend like it's a carrier landing and just fly it right inot the deck. Makes me feel like I land with authori-tie.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

This one is way too easy guys. its hard to believe there is a discussion. All performance figures for runway required etc are based on max (or takeoff) power being set BEFORE BRAKE RELEASE. The manuals on our aircraft even give us the T/O N1 setting. What are you guys doing fooling with the power while the aircraft is moving.

 

[mar]

There are perfectionists amongst us

What are you guys doing fooling with the power while the aircraft is moving.

These are the guys who are tweaking the power until it's *just* perfect, no matter how long it takes...

...when they upgrade, they'll be the same ones who constantly adjust the power and put their hand on the gear lever when they want it down.

Deep breath.

 

[TonyC]

What are you guys doing fooling with the power while the aircraft is moving.

It's called a rolling takeoff. I haven't done a static takeoff in ages.






.

 

[semperfido]

when the auto throttles fail to engage i just try to get them in the ballpark--that seems to be close enough.

 

[EagleRJ]

This one is way too easy guys. its hard to believe there is a discussion. All performance figures for runway required etc are based on max (or takeoff) power being set BEFORE BRAKE RELEASE. The manuals on our aircraft even give us the T/O N1 setting. What are you guys doing fooling with the power while the aircraft is moving.

That's not exactly true. It varies by aircraft type. Many aircraft have numbers for rolling takeoffs, with additional data for a "static" takeoff when every last bit of performance is needed.
When's the last time you took an airline flight where the crew made a static takeoff?

Some aircraft don't even allow the static takeoff under conditions of strong crosswinds. With the combination of high power and a strong crosswind across the intakes, there's an increased possibility of compressor stalls.

 

[moxiepilot]

i agree with tonyc's first post in this thread. it should be taken care of in the t/o brief (thrust set by 60 kts to x check by 80 or whatever) but taking longer than a few seconds for N1 is pretty silly; just standing the sticks straight up usually gets it very close anyway

 

[Hugh Johnson]

"That's not exactly true. It varies by aircraft type. Many aircraft have numbers for rolling takeoffs, with additional data for a "static" takeoff when every last bit of performance is needed.
When's the last time you took an airline flight where the crew made a static takeoff?

Some aircraft don't even allow the static takeoff under conditions of strong crosswinds. With the combination of high power and a strong crosswind across the intakes, there's an increased possibility of compressor stalls."

Hey, I learned something new today, cool. I'm spoiled because our 50 and 900EX have DEECS. Push it too the stop.

 

[PHX767]

We used to run the power all the way up at SNA (John Wayne/Orange County CA) and then release the brakes - all part of the company noise abatement profile.

On the original poster's question:
I have found that FO's that have been yelled at for overboosting the power beyound target are worried about doing it again. If I had a guy doing that I would say, "Have it up to at least the target N1 by 80 knots, if it's 1 percent over that's okay as long as the EGT is within limits."

 

[Cardinal]

My favortie is when a parameter creeps into the yellow during a takeoff and somebody feels the need to snatch the respective power lever back into the green range. Apparently forgetting entirely that the yellow arc on this aircraft denotes a 5 MINUTE (!) limitation for takeoff.