My Rant on the STUPID & SPINELESS Flight Options Management!

[netjetwife]

BF, I'll back you up. The reality is the majority of volunteers do the work at home on their days "off". Pilots serving on Union and/or joint committees fly full time unless they're needed at meetings in CMH. My husband's Union work has the complete support and respect of NJA. They value him as a full time instructor flying the line, but they also ask him to attend joint meetings and special projects they recruited him for. I think upper management at NJA knows better than B19 what they need to be successful, don't you guys? The FLOPS have been ruining morale and the business, but smart managers tap into the talent of the workforce and form a partnership.

For example, the Union Training Committee led the joint effort to redesign training, (much of it on their own time) saving NJA millions. Mr. Buffet should be very pleased with the work those pilots did for their regular salary. Mr. Santulli is. NJA would have had to pay a consultant firm a hefty fee but got UTC talent and experience for a song-- normal wages plus countless hours of personal/family time donated by volunteers to make training better. Union Volunteers also help out in areas like scheduling, uniforms and travel, to name a few, but still fly the line full time.

I've explained several times (give it up fudspinner, the dirt you're looking for isn't there) that NJA likes having a Steward on Duty in CMH and with their support the program was added to the contract. Those pilots are full time line pilots that pull SOD on a rotation basis. The SOD program is valued by all for the efficiency and team work it brings to operations.

NJA doesn't lose one sortie from a Union volunteer that they haven't agreed to. Furthermore, NJA sets up the joint project meetings and costs are shared with the Union so fudspinner is really reaching to make Union volunteers sound like freeloaders. RTS isn't complaining so who the hell is B19 to object? He's just a word-twisting FUD flinger trying to make the Union look bad so that the Sheeringa Gang and their despicable cohorts from F&H can go on acting like thugs while the Union supporters are distracted. Stupid idea! It just unites the pilotgroup even more.

TRUE PARTNERSHIP IS ALIVE AND WELL AT NJA BUT OVER AT FLIGHTOPS THE MORALE BEATINGS CONTINUE...

 

[B19 Flyer]

I think upper management at NJA knows better than B19 what they need to be successful, don't you guys?

There isn't a company in the world that wants a union on the property. Netjets management is forced to have a union shoved down their throat and has learned to live with it. If by some alignment of the stars unions were eliminated at all companies nationwide today, the whoops of joy of freedom to run the company the way they want to would last for weeks. The wasted money such as paying volunteers their benefits while they fly partial schedules would vanish overnight. The union boondoggles would be over.


TRUE PARTNERSHIP IS ALIVE AND WELL AT NJA BUT OVER AT FLIGHTOPS THE MORALE BEATINGS CONTINUE...

The "partnership" as you call it is forced and NJ is making the best of a situation that is forced on them.

Let's see how great this management/union partnership is at all the airlines, (NJ and fracs included) over the next couple of months and years as the purse-strings tighten up.

The fractional model relies heavily on scheduled airlines, and as the airlines cut back flight and increase cost, that will impact the bottom line just like fuel.

Fractionals are not insulated as much as the union folks like to think they are, there will be pain and then we'll see how great your "partnership" is then.

When the union at AA negotiated and gave your husband the opportunity to keep a position at Eagle, you bailed out and told the union and it's lousy CBA to shove it.

What's going to happen next time? Gonna bail out again when you don't agree with the union?

 

[B19 Flyer]

ill touch it....its because if it wasnt for the "union business" then managent types who couldnt cut it in the real world (like you) would $hit all over him. Then the only people who really suffer are his children.......who you don't care about.

this thread is now closed as well.....

cya

ROFL :laugh:

You really believe that...

 

[gunfyter]

How fair is it to Mr Buffett?

Let me count the ways...

A few hundred million $$$ fair in profits last year... and more to come.

If FLOPS wants profits in the future ... time to STOP disrespecting Pilots and play ball with the union.

 

[brokeflyer]

Let's see how great this management/union partnership is at all the airlines, (NJ and fracs included) over the next couple of months and years as the purse-strings tighten up.

The fractional model relies heavily on scheduled airlines, and as the airlines cut back flight and increase cost, that will impact the bottom line just like fuel.

Fractionals are not insulated as much as the union folks like to think they are, there will be pain and then we'll see how great your "partnership" is then.

When the union at AA negotiated and gave your husband the opportunity to keep a position at Eagle, you bailed out and told the union and it's lousy CBA to shove it.

What's going to happen next time? Gonna bail out again when you don't agree with the union?

that damn union.....your right.....im sure netjets would pay me 180k yr on their own.....

you need to come back to this planet.

 

[AeroBoy]

Since B19 refuses to even acknowledge, let alone answer, my question then I will fill in the blanks for him.

B19 at one time was on the NetJets advisory board. So he's not quite the objective source he claims to be. Further, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was involved in some consulting role with Flight Options right now. Note this is merely speculation since I don't have any proof of B19 having a relationship with Flight Options, at least not yet.

B19, care for a Coca-Cola or some Texaco fuel right about now?

 

[Fozzy]

BRK bought the WHOLE company. Planes, buildings, computers, cars, and a Unionized work force. It is a cost of doing business you dolt. But it does not surprise me that a management lackey like yourself can not (refuses) to see that. That argument ends there as far as Mr. Buffett goes, he buys the companys but he does not run them. Just do some research.
Now if NJA didn't want to cover the cost of paying for Pilots to come off the line and do Union work (and a lot of company work) they had options.
Negotiate a "better" contract for themselves.
Do what FLOPS is doing.

They chose wisely in 2005 AND 2007!
Amazing how capitalism works.

Stay away from NJA we want to stay profitable! :laugh:


Hey why are you dodging AeroBoy's questions??? Maybe we all should start calling you at your office and see when the next post is coming!

 

[Publishers]

Waka -- my grandfather taught me that to build something takes longer and is much more difficult than to tear something down. Then again, that is who it is so much more rewarding.
It is never wrong to strive to do (accomplish) the deeds.
My thinking on these matters is that people like NJW see things so one dimensional when life and business are not. The situtation at FO and NJ are worlds apart and between NJ and the other fractionals universe aparts.
As much as the union did for NJ, management did more. They came up with a successful model, financed it well, negotiated solid deals with the manufacturers, put together tremendous in house and out of house suppliers and support structure, and marketed the h out of it. Doing all these things brought employment to a significant number of pilots.
Unfortunately FO has not succeeded in these areas. Who knows, maybe the lucky ones are the ones cut loose fairly or unfairly.
In another thread talking about the ones let go at Dayjet, someone said they obviously would never make it as an airline. Back in the NJ negotiations there was always talk like NJ was an airline.
The airline business absolutely sucks and the unions have certainly been no panacea for that business. There is all this talk about industry standards. Who cares about some vague standard. The only thing that counts is you are happy where you are and you feel you are compensated reasonably for what you do. If you are not, you should be moving on. If you are happy in your work life, you are probably creating something. If you are miserable with it and sharing that, you are probably tearing something down.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Since B19 refuses to even acknowledge, let alone answer, my question then I will fill in the blanks for him.

B19 at one time was on the NetJets advisory board. So he's not quite the objective source he claims to be. Further, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was involved in some consulting role with Flight Options right now. Note this is merely speculation since I don't have any proof of B19 having a relationship with Flight Options, at least not yet.

B19, care for a Coca-Cola or some Texaco fuel right about now?

His silence is stunning, isnt it?:erm:

 

[netjetwife]

Waka -- my grandfather taught me that to build something takes longer and is much more difficult than to tear something down. Then again, that is why it is so much more rewarding. It is never wrong to strive to do (accomplish) the deeds. This is something NJ Union leaders and members can easily identify with. They built StrongUnion, built pilot-only Local 1108 and are currently building an independent association. Options pilot leaders and members have built their Union from scratch. Kudos to all involved!
My thinking on these matters is that people like NJW see things so one dimensional when life and business are not. Hardly! Negotiations revolve around money so there's been a lot of business discussed at my house, especially during IBB and now with NJASAP. The situtation at FO and NJ are worlds apart and between NJ and the other fractionals universe aparts. Talk about single-focus thinking.... Differences don't justify exploitation. Our country set a minimum wage to protect workers. I think pilots need to do the same for themselves. Sure, some will make more but none should be paid like unskilled labor. A professional base rate is in order to prevent huge discrepancies. As much as the union did for NJ, management did more. But they couldn't have done it alone. And it was proven that NJA is more productive when the pilots are motivated and respected. .... Doing all these things brought employment to a significant number of pilots. Who are a core component of the business model. My recognition of the partnership at NJA is a more balanced viewpoint than your constant praise for management and your soft tone for the FLOPS who are ruining FO and derailing careers. Unfortunately FO has not succeeded in these areas. Who knows, maybe the lucky ones are the ones cut loose fairly or unfairly. From posts here they don't sound like they're feeling lucky. Shocked and disgusted is more like it.

There is all this talk about industry standards. Who cares about some vague standard. The underpaid Options pilots who do the same job for less than their frac peers and know precisely how far behind they are. Your pro-management blinders must prevent you from seeing clearly what stands out starkly to the rest of us. The only thing that counts is you are happy where you are and you feel you are compensated reasonably for what you do. Those two factors don't always come together; sometimes you have to insist on fair compensation for the job you enjoy. If you are not, you should be moving on. That's the same trite advice you gave to the NJA pilots. It's a good thing they listened to their Union leaders instead of you. :erm: If you are happy in your work life, you are probably creating something. If you are miserable with it and sharing that, you are probably tearing something down. A classic example of a shoot the messenger attitude...

Fractional pilots have helped to build the fractional industry. Their skill, labor, and personal face-to-face interaction with pax has created, in significant measure, the success that is often taken for granted by managers like the FLOPS. Many pilots have watched managers come and go while they kept steadily building the business. A bad CEO can single-handedly destroy years of hard work in a short tenure. At FltOps it's very clear who is tearing down the business that the pilots invested their career in and helped to build with each safe, professional flight.

I think it's very callous and extremely insulting to post pro-management speeches on a thread for pilots who have been personally harmed by arrogant, out of control managers like Sheeringa and his cohorts. In times like this you learn who your friends are. Hang in there guys! NJW