Multi time building post

[ePilot22]

if TIS tells me there is a clear cut line between the two.. ill back off... otherwise...fo...

MAS, check this link:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=67741


If you what to hear from TIS, you'll have to go where the weather is better.


:uzi: PFW

I think (my feeling here) that the difference is when I buy my BE76, PA44 whatever multi time, I fly where and when I want. These guys here put you to WORK. You fly their schedule and their routes. Try taking their twin to XZY airport or something, I'll bet they won't let you. Are you "pay for training"? Not training, but you're paying to work hence PFW, just as bad as PFT! NO-GO!

eP.

 

[aeronautic1]

If it was an Astec, then that would be a pretty good a/c to learn in. The website says they fly twin comanchee... weeeeee!!!!!

Slick airplane! I did my multiengine training in a B.

If I didn't had anything to do for a couple of months, had the do-ray-me and I was light on twin time, then I would go fly the PA30. $35 an hour sounds pretty good to me.

Just like mom and pop flight schools instead of prredatory flight academies, no one cares where you build your time.

It's your money. Spend it wisely.

 

[Lilah]

I have something to contribute here. A couple of years ago I participated in the program.

Here’s a little backround. It was less than a year since 9/11, and jobs were hard to come by.. I was flight instructing at a small school that didn’t have a twin. I also pumped gas and flew traffic, as well as ferry flights whenever the chance offered itself. My TT was a little under 1000 with 18 multi. Although I knew my chances of finding a 135 VFR job were slim, I nevertheless had sent out more than a few resumes. My chances of finding a multi job were slim indeed.

I called two buddies who lived in Texas and were familiar with the program. They both endorsed it and it seemed like the most reasonable way to increase my multi experience. For a little less than a month in Texas I could raise my TT close to IFR 135 times and make myself more attractive to any employer multi wise.

The flying was actually pretty fun. It’s not a whole lot different than flying traffic, but the scenery was a little different. It was an interesting balance of flying high for safety and efficiency reasons, and flying low when the weather required it. It was also my first time in an ADIZ. I had previously assumed it was a line and not an area. Anyway, my “can do” attitude seemed to be a good fit.

As luck would have it, within two months of my return from Texas, two freight jobs were offered to me simultaneously. The first was in a Metro, the other in a small jet. I took the latter job, but there was certainly no SJS, other factors played a bigger role in decision. Neither job would have been offered if my logbook didn’t reflect my time in Galveston.

It was a positive experience for me. To those that would damn my choice, I strongly support your right to have your opinion, but it was my choice to make. My alternatives? Ditch my employer, go to another flight school, and instruct at (maybe) 50 hours/year. Two other choices were economically not available to me…spend $15,000 on aircraft rental, or buying a plane. I have known people to do each of these.

It was my choice to make, and I have been forthcoming during interviews with respect to my multi time and it hasn’t been a problem. I no longer fly freight, but my 900 hours in the trade was something I’m glad I had the chance to do.

Lilah

PS. Not that it makes any difference, but I did interview with Mesa for the practice and turned the job offer down…

 

[MAS]

good post

 

[ePilot22]

It’s not a whole lot different than flying traffic

Did you pay to fly traffic too?

 

[agpilot34]

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Did you pay to fly traffic too?

SO, how'd you build your multi time? $200 hamburger trips in a rented twin? Squeaking by for several years trying to build enough multi time for 135 IFR mins. by instructing? Seems to me that YOU guys are the ONLY ones that care where someone gets their time at... most employers I know sure dont, as long as you've got it. You know, the majority of students don't have Mommy and Daddy to wipe their a$$es and fork out cash for training every time they wimper like some others do. I know several guys I went through flight school with that struggled as instructors for 2 or 3 YEARS before they got to 100 multi. What did they learn? flying around the practice area in the right seat and instructing. Not saying it's not a good way to build time IF you are in a position that has the capacity to get you that time. $3500 for 100 hours of multi is unheard of in ANY twin, much less a Twin Comanche. If I were at a point that I needed to build some multi time quick, I would jump on this in a heartbeat. It's one thing to call someone a "PFT Whore" on an internet website... it's a bit different to call them that to their face.

 

[PilotB]

You people are freaking dense. This is PFT/PFW. They fly this operation out of Houston and they are REQUIRED to have two pilots by their employers. Attitudes like this are the reason that pilots are making $17,000 a year to fly jets. Nobody is saying have Mommy and Daddy pay for it but don't be a little whore and go pay for a seat someone should be earning wages to fill.

Hey I gotta an idea agpilot, I know this great place where you can pay $35,000 and sit in the right seat of a B1900. If I wanted some 121 time quick, I would jump all over this deal. Quit screwing the rest of us and paying for a job.

 

[ePilot22]

PFT what?

It's one thing to call someone a "PFT Whore" on an internet website... it's a bit different to call them that to their face.

When and where did I say that? And calm down tough guy....deep breaths!

I think (my feeling here) that the difference is when I buy my BE76, PA44 whatever multi time, I fly where and when I want. These guys here put you to WORK. You fly their schedule and their routes. Try taking their twin to XZY airport or something, I'll bet they won't let you. Are you "pay for training"? Not training, but you're paying to work hence PFW, just as bad as PFT! NO-GO!

Nowhere in that post do I see or read the words "PFT Whore"?

You know, the majority of students don't have Mommy and Daddy to wipe their a$$es and fork out cash for training every time they wimper like some others do.

Hey Dad, I need some money so I can go pay to work!

SO, how'd you build your multi time? $200 hamburger trips in a rented twin? Squeaking by for several years trying to build enough multi time for 135 IFR mins. by instructing?

Yes, yes and yes. It's called paying MY dues! If fact I just EARNED my MEI yesterday! And I WILL be instructing in it, thanks.

Oh, and I WORK for every dollar and minute of flight time, but I don't say that because YOU judge how people build their time.

All I asked was if they paid to fly traffic.

But here ya go: http://www.keylimeair.com/sic.asp. Spend it wisely!

eP.

 

[NYCPilot]

I just watched the "SIC program" video...hilarious footage and narration. What a ridiculous program.

 

[gfvalvo]

Yes, yes and yes. It's called paying MY dues!

So where is it written that everyone has to build time in the same way?

Oh, and I WORK for every dollar and minute of flight time, but I don't say that because YOU judge how people build their time.

Seems like you're the one doing the judging.

 

[Steve]

I just watched the "SIC program" video...hilarious footage and narration. What a ridiculous program.

Could the music be any gayer? and whats with the stupid b*tch saying "logged Mult-eye engine time"

 

[NYCPilot]

man, thats a lot of cash to drop on some multi time. I'd be pretty embarassed to be the "new guy" who spent tens of thousands of dollars to be told when to sling the gear. They must all laugh at these guys behind their back.

 

[MAS]

Yes, yes and yes. It's called paying MY dues! If fact I just EARNED my MEI yesterday! And I WILL be instructing in it, thanks.

epilot...
not everyone can be so lucky as to get a job with their mei only getting it yesterday... 3500 is a lot chaper than the cost of moving to a place where one might have to move to get a job instructing as a newly minted mei...

and for those that look at it as PTW... no its not... you are paying for time...
if me going to fly for them to build that time keeps one pilot (you) from getting a job... ill just chalk you up as my "one little sacrifice"...

( this is where you go into your rant of sanctimonious platitudes about how this is the reason the industry has gone to poo... ) i disagree in this one multi time building instance...

as i have repeated over and over... there is no way i would spend one dime over 3,500 dollars for multi time... when the opportunity for me to pay 3,500 is out there for the taking...

would i pay 7,000 for 200 hours... heck no... because only 100 is needed for me to get on the insurance for an mei job...

dang this phenegran has got me loopy...

 

[ePilot22]

Wow!

So where is it written that everyone has to build time in the same way?

I think you might have missed understood the word "MY", as it pertains to ME! I didn't say EVERYONE had to build their time this way, just "MY" which is limilted to only ME, MYSELF or I. Hope that hepls with your confusion.

epilot...
not everyone can be so lucky as to get a job with their mei only getting it yesterday...

Again, I DIDN'T say that, you DID! This is what I said:

If fact I just EARNED my MEI yesterday! And I WILL be instructing in it, thanks.

Note the "WILL" be instructing part of that quote. I didn't say I AM instructing in the multi.

as i have repeated over and over... there is no way i would spend one dime over 3,500 dollars for multi time... when the opportunity for me to pay 3,500 is out there for the taking...

MEI, it pays for itself, in fact, people will PAY YOU to teach them how to fly a twin. BONUS: You build multi time at NO COST! Imagine that.....

Sure beats you're $3,500 to work huh?

But seriously, I have to fly a couple of people from point A to point B next weekend in the twin, hows' about you pay me to let you fly them?

Hmmm.....just make the check payable to Tom Sawyer.



eP.

 

[imacdog]

and for those that look at it as PTW... no its not... you are paying for time...quote]

If you were paying for time, they'd say "Here's the keys. Plane's due back in a couple hours." You then get to do whatever you want with your time.

MAS, you should try getting a real flying job some time. Getting paid to fly is a pretty nice gig. Then again, maybe someone who can't distinguish between paying to work and renting a plane probably shouldn't be in charge of people's lives anyway.