Multi time building post

[MAS]

imacdog... how are you going to get paid 3,500 to fly that twin if you dont have the minimum flight time to get the job in the first place.... ... ohhhhhhh thats right.... you paid 14,000 k to rent that duchess.... out of indianapolis....

 

[imacdog]

There are many operators who hire pilots to fly twins with little more than their multi or MEI ticket. I understand this might mean actually paying your dues, which no one seems to be interested in doing any more, but believe it or not 100 hours of straight and level VFR twin flying isn't the magical answer to getting a multi job. More power to those who are dumb enough to pay for a job.

 

[MarineGrunt]

answer me this...
ANYONE......

would you rather pay $3,500.... OR $12,500 for 100 hours of multi time?

I'll take option C. Get an MEI and a JOB. (you know they pay you money for those right?)

And yes, airlines DO look at the quality of your flight time. Don't kid yourself.

 

[MAS]

as i have stated before... you have to have 100 hours of twin time to put your mei ticket to use at my old school...

so...you pay 3,500 for the 100 hours of multi time rather than 10,000... then pay your dues as an mei...

 

[MarineGrunt]

Then find another school..... geez man.

 

[drinkduff77]

Seriously...go to a different flight school if they require you to have 100 hrs multi before instructing. They are just trying to improve the revenue on their own airplanes.

Or go to a reputable cargo company like airnet or ameriflight and fly for a year. They don't require all that much multi time. At the end of your year you'll have 1000 hrs multi PIC for a 135 operator, be as sharp a pilot as anyone out there, and be paid fairly well to do it.

Anyone that is looking to be a professional pilot and pays for hours beyond what is needed for a certificate or rating is either ignorant or lazy.

 

[wt219200]

Multi-time

How many companies will hire you to fly there planes after you get your multi rating. You have we'll say 15 hours average multi time when you get your rating with 1 hour PIC from your checkride. Then you need 14 more hours PIC to be an MEI with at least 5 hours in the model you will be teaching in. Its not the company's or flight school's decision to require 100 hours multi to instruct it is the INSURANCE COMPANIES, the devils that run this industry. I agree it sucks, but so if I split 30 hours with a fellow CFI to get my PIC time is this considered PFT to some of you guys who would rather die than pay for a couple hours. Show me one company that will hire me to fly there twin with 17 hours multi. If you do I will pay you for getting me a job that does not exist.

 

[MarineGrunt]

How many companies will hire you to fly there planes after you get your multi rating. You have we'll say 15 hours average multi time when you get your rating with 1 hour PIC from your checkride. Then you need 14 more hours PIC to be an MEI with at least 5 hours in the model you will be teaching in. Its not the company's or flight school's decision to require 100 hours multi to instruct it is the INSURANCE COMPANIES, the devils that run this industry. I agree it sucks, but so if I split 30 hours with a fellow CFI to get my PIC time is this considered PFT to some of you guys who would rather die than pay for a couple hours. Show me one company that will hire me to fly there twin with 17 hours multi. If you do I will pay you for getting me a job that does not exist.

I will agree with you that the 15hrs multi PIC is a big hurdle to get over to get your MEI. I got lucky that the school I was a CFI with flew a Cessna 401 under part 91, so when I could, I went along and flew the empty legs. Didn't pay a dime and they actually paid me for doing it. I have no problem with people paying for their time, if you got the cash, go for it. What I do have a problem with is people filling a pilot seat on an aircraft, for free or for sickening wages, that would otherwise go to a qualified commercial pilot that is trying to make a living. I don't know if thats the particular with the company in question, but it sorta smells like it.

There are plenty of schools out there that will start instructing you right away as a newly minted MEI. I went to UND, and their new MEI's start getting multi students almost right away. You can find a flight school like that just as easy as you can find a place to buy time for $35/hr. Sure, pay for you 15ME PIC if you have to, but if you're paying for 100s of hours of time, you either have WAY more money than I do (which isn't much), or you're just plain lazy.

 

[gfvalvo]

What I do have a problem with is people filling a pilot seat on an aircraft, for free or for sickening wages, that would otherwise go to a qualified commercial pilot that is trying to make a living.

It's called Supply and Demand.

 

[imacdog]

How many companies will hire you to fly there planes after you get your multi rating. You have we'll say 15 hours average multi time when you get your rating with 1 hour PIC from your checkride. Then you need 14 more hours PIC to be an MEI with at least 5 hours in the model you will be teaching in. Its not the company's or flight school's decision to require 100 hours multi to instruct it is the INSURANCE COMPANIES, the devils that run this industry. I agree it sucks, but so if I split 30 hours with a fellow CFI to get my PIC time is this considered PFT to some of you guys who would rather die than pay for a couple hours. Show me one company that will hire me to fly there twin with 17 hours multi. If you do I will pay you for getting me a job that does not exist.

I have not worked for them, but people here have said that Ram Air Freight, Flight Express, and Air Now (to name a few) have transitioned to their multis with a fresh multi ticket. Central Air Southwest is currently advertising for pilots that meet 135 minimums. Another option is to go instruct at a school that will give you a break on training for your MEI rating where you can begin giving instruction once you get it.

Renting a plane to build time is sometimes necessary, but renting ususally means you get to decide what to do with the aircraft. The FBO makes money by letting you take their plane. Paying to work for a company is far different. You are providing a service to a company to help them make money, in addition to giving them your money for the priviledge to do so.

 

[ePilot22]

if TIS tells me there is a clear cut line between the two.. ill back off... otherwise...fo...

MAS, check this link:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=67741


If you what to hear from TIS, you'll have to go where the weather is better.


:uzi: PFW

I think (my feeling here) that the difference is when I buy my BE76, PA44 whatever multi time, I fly where and when I want. These guys here put you to WORK. You fly their schedule and their routes. Try taking their twin to XZY airport or something, I'll bet they won't let you. Are you "pay for training"? Not training, but you're paying to work hence PFW, just as bad as PFT! NO-GO!

eP.

 

[aeronautic1]

If it was an Astec, then that would be a pretty good a/c to learn in. The website says they fly twin comanchee... weeeeee!!!!!

Slick airplane! I did my multiengine training in a B.

If I didn't had anything to do for a couple of months, had the do-ray-me and I was light on twin time, then I would go fly the PA30. $35 an hour sounds pretty good to me.

Just like mom and pop flight schools instead of prredatory flight academies, no one cares where you build your time.

It's your money. Spend it wisely.

 

[Lilah]

I have something to contribute here. A couple of years ago I participated in the program.

Here’s a little backround. It was less than a year since 9/11, and jobs were hard to come by.. I was flight instructing at a small school that didn’t have a twin. I also pumped gas and flew traffic, as well as ferry flights whenever the chance offered itself. My TT was a little under 1000 with 18 multi. Although I knew my chances of finding a 135 VFR job were slim, I nevertheless had sent out more than a few resumes. My chances of finding a multi job were slim indeed.

I called two buddies who lived in Texas and were familiar with the program. They both endorsed it and it seemed like the most reasonable way to increase my multi experience. For a little less than a month in Texas I could raise my TT close to IFR 135 times and make myself more attractive to any employer multi wise.

The flying was actually pretty fun. It’s not a whole lot different than flying traffic, but the scenery was a little different. It was an interesting balance of flying high for safety and efficiency reasons, and flying low when the weather required it. It was also my first time in an ADIZ. I had previously assumed it was a line and not an area. Anyway, my “can do” attitude seemed to be a good fit.

As luck would have it, within two months of my return from Texas, two freight jobs were offered to me simultaneously. The first was in a Metro, the other in a small jet. I took the latter job, but there was certainly no SJS, other factors played a bigger role in decision. Neither job would have been offered if my logbook didn’t reflect my time in Galveston.

It was a positive experience for me. To those that would damn my choice, I strongly support your right to have your opinion, but it was my choice to make. My alternatives? Ditch my employer, go to another flight school, and instruct at (maybe) 50 hours/year. Two other choices were economically not available to me…spend $15,000 on aircraft rental, or buying a plane. I have known people to do each of these.

It was my choice to make, and I have been forthcoming during interviews with respect to my multi time and it hasn’t been a problem. I no longer fly freight, but my 900 hours in the trade was something I’m glad I had the chance to do.

Lilah

PS. Not that it makes any difference, but I did interview with Mesa for the practice and turned the job offer down…

 

[MAS]

good post

 

[ePilot22]

It’s not a whole lot different than flying traffic

Did you pay to fly traffic too?

 

[agpilot34]

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Did you pay to fly traffic too?

SO, how'd you build your multi time? $200 hamburger trips in a rented twin? Squeaking by for several years trying to build enough multi time for 135 IFR mins. by instructing? Seems to me that YOU guys are the ONLY ones that care where someone gets their time at... most employers I know sure dont, as long as you've got it. You know, the majority of students don't have Mommy and Daddy to wipe their a$$es and fork out cash for training every time they wimper like some others do. I know several guys I went through flight school with that struggled as instructors for 2 or 3 YEARS before they got to 100 multi. What did they learn? flying around the practice area in the right seat and instructing. Not saying it's not a good way to build time IF you are in a position that has the capacity to get you that time. $3500 for 100 hours of multi is unheard of in ANY twin, much less a Twin Comanche. If I were at a point that I needed to build some multi time quick, I would jump on this in a heartbeat. It's one thing to call someone a "PFT Whore" on an internet website... it's a bit different to call them that to their face.

 

[PilotB]

You people are freaking dense. This is PFT/PFW. They fly this operation out of Houston and they are REQUIRED to have two pilots by their employers. Attitudes like this are the reason that pilots are making $17,000 a year to fly jets. Nobody is saying have Mommy and Daddy pay for it but don't be a little whore and go pay for a seat someone should be earning wages to fill.

Hey I gotta an idea agpilot, I know this great place where you can pay $35,000 and sit in the right seat of a B1900. If I wanted some 121 time quick, I would jump all over this deal. Quit screwing the rest of us and paying for a job.

 

[ePilot22]

PFT what?

It's one thing to call someone a "PFT Whore" on an internet website... it's a bit different to call them that to their face.

When and where did I say that? And calm down tough guy....deep breaths!

I think (my feeling here) that the difference is when I buy my BE76, PA44 whatever multi time, I fly where and when I want. These guys here put you to WORK. You fly their schedule and their routes. Try taking their twin to XZY airport or something, I'll bet they won't let you. Are you "pay for training"? Not training, but you're paying to work hence PFW, just as bad as PFT! NO-GO!

Nowhere in that post do I see or read the words "PFT Whore"?

You know, the majority of students don't have Mommy and Daddy to wipe their a$$es and fork out cash for training every time they wimper like some others do.

Hey Dad, I need some money so I can go pay to work!

SO, how'd you build your multi time? $200 hamburger trips in a rented twin? Squeaking by for several years trying to build enough multi time for 135 IFR mins. by instructing?

Yes, yes and yes. It's called paying MY dues! If fact I just EARNED my MEI yesterday! And I WILL be instructing in it, thanks.

Oh, and I WORK for every dollar and minute of flight time, but I don't say that because YOU judge how people build their time.

All I asked was if they paid to fly traffic.

But here ya go: http://www.keylimeair.com/sic.asp. Spend it wisely!

eP.

 

[NYCPilot]

I just watched the "SIC program" video...hilarious footage and narration. What a ridiculous program.

 

[gfvalvo]

Yes, yes and yes. It's called paying MY dues!

So where is it written that everyone has to build time in the same way?

Oh, and I WORK for every dollar and minute of flight time, but I don't say that because YOU judge how people build their time.

Seems like you're the one doing the judging.