Most Junior UAL Pilot?

[pilotyip]

Dare Consumers

This is why we pilots continue to get screwed by our management. .

Aren't you really being screwed by those terrible consumers of air travel who demand such rock bottom prices so that no one can make a profit.

 

[Caveman]

I'd like to check on an acquaintence I knew a few years ago who is at UAL. Would someone mind PMing me and I'll give you his name. I just want to know whether or not he survived the furloughs. Thanks.

 

[BornAgainPagan]

Aren't you really being screwed by those terrible consumers of air travel who demand such rock bottom prices so that no one can make a profit.

Well. no. You don't understand the airline business. The consumers' effect on ticket prices only goes so far. After all, passengers can demand to pay a $1 airfare all they want but it won't happen. It is the airlines that undercut each other to fill seats in a race to the bottom. If airlines actually charged what it would cost plus a profit, then the industry wouldn't be in such a dismal state. Instead, they would rather corner the market on certain routes and lose money on specific flights. Then they roll the dice to see if they can make up for it in other routes and/or other times, cut labor costs by declaring bankruptcy to get out of a union contracts (including scope), lowering quality of service, reducing service, operating/outsourcing understaffed call centers by folks that barely speak English etc. etc. etc....one could go on and on. Wal Mart Airways, here we come.

Kugelblitz is correct. The problem is management.

 

[pilotyip]

you are so right

Well. no. You don't understand the airline business. The consumers' effect on ticket prices only goes so far. After all, passengers can demand to pay a $1 airfare all they want but it won't happen. It is the airlines that undercut each other to fill seats in a race to the bottom. If airlines actually charged what it would cost plus a profit, then the industry wouldn't be in such a dismal state. Instead, they would rather corner the market on certain routes and lose money on specific flights. Then they roll the dice to see if they can make up for it in other routes and/or other times, cut labor costs by declaring bankruptcy to get out of a union contracts (including scope), lowering quality of service, reducing service, operating/outsourcing understaffed call centers by folks that barely speak English etc. etc. etc....one could go on and on. Wal Mart Airways, here we come.

Kugelblitz is correct. The problem is management.

you are so right, lets go back to 1976 and hte regulated airlines business
Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. There are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. Dereg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed. This is still a great way to make a living, pilots are not doctor's, if you want to be treated like a doctor finish med school, pilots are not wall street CEO's, if you want ot be a wall street CEO, get into one the top 10 MBA's school. You are pilot you fly airplanes, if you like doing that you are probably happy. If not you are in the wrong line of work.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

you are so right, lets go back to 1976 and hte regulated airlines business
Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. There are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. Dereg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed. This is still a great way to make a living, pilots are not doctor's, if you want to be treated like a doctor finish med school, pilots are not wall street CEO's, if you want ot be a wall street CEO, get into one the top 10 MBA's school. You are pilot you fly airplanes, if you like doing that you are probably happy. If not you are in the wrong line of work.

It is truly amazing how this dip******************** holds on to a medical!
This is the same moron you follow doing 55 in the left lane with his turn signal on.
It's ok old man. No one could possibly think any less of you. Go retire, and enjoy the shuffleboard court.

 

[IAHERJ]

you are so right, lets go back to 1976 and hte regulated airlines business
Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. There are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. Dereg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed. This is still a great way to make a living, pilots are not doctor's, if you want to be treated like a doctor finish med school, pilots are not wall street CEO's, if you want ot be a wall street CEO, get into one the top 10 MBA's school. You are pilot you fly airplanes, if you like doing that you are probably happy. If not you are in the wrong line of work.

Allow me to translate this:

Basically, prior to deregulation, only a few pilots enjoyed the good life. Pilotyip was not one of those because he lacked whatever was needed to get on with a major airline. Deregulation to him has been a good thing as it has allowed multiple start up bottom feeders to spring up all over this country. Along with nonscheduled airlines(like the one he works for), the fly by night outfits that come and go continue to put downward pressure on the legacy airlines that offer the best pay packages but since he can't get a job at one of those carriers, who cares. It's like the difference between a British youth and an American kid. The American kid sees a luxury car pass him on the street and instantly thinks "wow, I want to be able to have one of those one day" while the British kid says "Who the bloody Hell does he think he is in that nice car? I'll show him!"
Now that pilotyip has worked in "management" at his little outfit he has something he can cling to and finally be "elite". He constantly reminds us that labor will only get what the market can afford etc. As if nobody gets that. Sad.

 

[pilotyip]

get out of my lane.

It is truly amazing how this dip******************** holds on to a medical!
This is the same moron you follow doing 55 in the left lane with his turn signal on.

not me I have the guy doin 80 inthe left lane blinking my lights at you for drving 70, that is when I am not out barn storming in the B-17 and C-47. BTW last 1 st class, BP110/70, rest pulse 60, did not need glasses. If things work out for you, you also may enjoy these years if you get here.

 

[pilotyip]

Who me?

Allow me to translate this:

Basically, prior to deregulation, only a few pilots enjoyed the good life. Pilotyip was not one of those because he lacked whatever was needed to get on with a major airline. .

Like many of the later Vietnam era pilots who I served with our timing to make it in this industry was not as good as some. There were so many guys with 1000's of hour of jet time from that era, that turbo prop guys were not in as big of a demand. A long list of ex EAL, Pam Am, Transamerica, Braniff guy fit in that same box. BTW I have had a ball and looking back would change little. I still have a lot of friends in this business, maybe if you tried you could also be one. Will you be my friend?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Allow me to translate this:

Basically, prior to deregulation, only a few pilots enjoyed the good life. Pilotyip was not one of those because he lacked whatever was needed to get on with a major airline. Deregulation to him has been a good thing as it has allowed multiple start up bottom feeders to spring up all over this country. Along with nonscheduled airlines(like the one he works for), the fly by night outfits that come and go continue to put downward pressure on the legacy airlines that offer the best pay packages but since he can't get a job at one of those carriers, who cares. It's like the difference between a British youth and an American kid. The American kid sees a luxury car pass him on the street and instantly thinks "wow, I want to be able to have one of those one day" while the British kid says "Who the bloody Hell does he think he is in that nice car? I'll show him!"
Now that pilotyip has worked in "management" at his little outfit he has something he can cling to and finally be "elite". He constantly reminds us that labor will only get what the market can afford etc. As if nobody gets that. Sad.

Too bad you didn't get one of this azzwipes 2 page PM's. pilotyip is one pathetic old man. At least he's where he's supposed to be, with the rest of the azzwipes. In airline management at some scumbag ********************hole operation.

 

[IAHERJ]

My post was pretty harsh and a shot at someone I don't even know(great thing to throw bombs while hiding behind a screen). What I find troubling is his continued "managing of expectations" for anyone who works for a legacy airline. I've never read a post by him where he wishes the pilots of a carrier in negotiations well. He complains as a consumer about airline pricing thus fostering the typical U.S. airline passenger "I have a right to travel coast to coast for $199.00" mentality(reference his posts months back about buying tickets for personal travel). I wish him well(as I wish for everyone in this industry, pilot or not). I just don't understand the 10% who always seem to feed on the negativity in this industry and thrive on watching others go through down cycles(aka United).

 

[Mr.B]

It is truly amazing how this dip******************** holds on to a medical!
This is the same moron you follow doing 55 in the left lane with his turn signal on.
It's ok old man. No one could possibly think any less of you. Go retire, and enjoy the shuffleboard court.

I think I'll just go back to watching the geezermeter thread.

 

[contrail67]

Just remember they are cycles...who is down today will be king of the hill tomorrow.

 

[pilotyip]

thanks for the kind words

My post was pretty harsh and a shot at someone I don't even know(great thing to throw bombs while hiding behind a screen). What I find troubling is his continued "managing of expectations" for anyone who works for a legacy airline. I've never read a post by him where he wishes the pilots of a carrier in negotiations well. He complains as a consumer about airline pricing thus fostering the typical U.S. airline passenger "I have a right to travel coast to coast for $199.00" mentality(reference his posts months back about buying tickets for personal travel). I wish him well(as I wish for everyone in this industry, pilot or not). I just don't understand the 10% who always seem to feed on the negativity in this industry and thrive on watching others go through down cycles(aka United).

Unlike others on this site you seem to have a reasonable side. I wish no one ill will, but I see so much complaining from guys who have jobs flying airplanes. Anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can fly an airplane. Most pilots make a good living compared to the rest of the individuals in this country and to be able to do something you love to do and make a good living is like a dream. Many people will never experience that. Having seen my jobs disappear on a regular basis over my career, I am hesitate to endorse anything that would seem to upset the status qou, particularly at marginal operations. I’ll send you the PM, ignore if you like.

 

[ATRCA]

Unlike others on this site you seem to have a reasonable side. I wish no one ill will, but I see so much complaining from guys who have jobs flying airplanes. Anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can fly an airplane. Most pilots make a good living compared to the rest of the individuals in this country and to be able to do something you love to do and make a good living is like a dream. Many people will never experience that. Having seen my jobs disappear on a regular basis over my career, I am hesitate to endorse anything that would seem to upset the status qou, particularly at marginal operations. I’ll send you the PM, ignore if you like.

Without getting into a more protracted pissing contest, you seem to indicate in your post that you believe that "flying airplanes" is a form of compensation? Wether or not one enjoys the work being performed, compensations should be commensurate with the responsibility of said position. Implying that doing work you might happen to enjoy entitles you to lower pay is a BIG part of the problem this industry faces going forward.

Enjoying work that you have been trained to competently complete is not quantifiable in dollar terms. No price can be charged for the enjoyment a professional may take from performing their life's work. By your argument, the worst jobs in the world should demand the greatest financial compensation since clearly no value can be deducted for enjoyment.

Perhaps I'm understanding your point incorrectly but if I'm not, I think the logic is terribly flawed and greatly responsible for the destruction our industry has witness in the last 30 years.

 

[pilotyip]

read my tag line

Without getting into a more protracted pissing contest, you seem to indicate in your post that you believe that "flying airplanes" is a form of compensation? .

It is all in my tag line, it says it all. I consider myself one of the luckiest SOB's to ever walk the planet. Flying is a way to make a living, I have never made over $100K/yr in my life. I am still living my dream of a 5 yr old. I am very comfortable in my semi-retirement. I am happy, if what I have done would not make others happy then that is their choice. I do not ask anyone to be happy just because I am. If others are not happy then I do not believe there is much I can do for them. There are lots of people out here like me. They tend not to post, because one becomes such a lightening rod for being content with your career. As a gentelman, I respectfully accept your opinions and positions, I just ask that I be accepted under the same conditions. Blue skies and safe flying.

 

[ATRCA]

It is all in my tag line, it says it all. I consider myself one of the luckiest SOB's to ever walk the planet. Flying is a way to make a living, I have never made over $100K/yr in my life. I am still living my dream of a 5 yr old. I am very comfortable in my semi-retirement. I am happy, if what I have done would not make others happy then that is their choice. I do not ask anyone to be happy just because I am. If others are not happy then I do not believe there is much I can do for them. There are lots of people out here like me. They tend not to post, because one becomes such a lightening rod for being content with your career. As a gentelman, I respectfully accept your opinions and positions, I just ask that I be accepted under the same conditions. Blue skies and safe flying.

Fair enough. I read your PM completely and I can certainly understand your sentiments. I can also say that I do not believe in this industry or profession enough to continue to perform work that I am not being appropriately compensated for. I do not enjoy flying more than I loath being taken advantage of. I'm attempting to take corrective action in that regard. I believe that if this industry is going to be populated with those who are willing to accept their position as professional pilots as "compensation" by itself, than this profession will see continued downward pressure that will eventually lead to working conditions that I would find intolerable. If there are others who disagree, I'm happy to leave the career to them.

I believe we are 55% of the way there.................

 

[chppr5]

fair enough. I read your pm completely and i can certainly understand your sentiments. I can also say that i do not believe in this industry or profession enough to continue to perform work that i am not being appropriately compensated for. I do not enjoy flying more than i loath being taken advantage of. I'm attempting to take corrective action in that regard. I believe that if this industry is going to be populated with those who are willing to accept their position as professional pilots as "compensation" by itself, than this profession will see continued downward pressure that will eventually lead to working conditions that i would find intolerable. If there are others who disagree, i'm happy to leave the career to them.

I believe we are 55% of the way there.................

amen!!!

 

[pilotyip]

fair compensation?

I can also say that I do not believe in this industry or profession enough to continue to perform work that I am not being appropriately compensated for. I do not enjoy flying more than I loath being taken advantage of.

What is fair compensation? No intent to flame, but I believe this isa fair question.

 

[Turtle21]

This post started out as a simple question by someone concerned about their friends at United and look where it has gone.

This is why we pilots continue to get screwed by our management. I cannot recall a single thread that has ever run more than one page on this forum where individuals haven't started fighting with one another. I could post that the new paint scheme for airline so and so looks good and sure enough some jack-#ss would have to make some snide remark about even that.

There are a lot of bitter people out there (and I must admit, sometimes it's me as well) who have invested a lot of time and energy to get into this profession only to besmirch everyone involved with it.

Pilots for other airlines are not the enemy, generally, management is. They are the opportunist who played on people's fears after 9-11 and who continue to try and convince pilots that we are equal in duties to FA's and the aircraft cleaning crew. They only way we can ever hope to regain some semblance of a profession that is desirable is to support one another and stop seeing everyone else as the competition out to put one over on you.

Arguing over everything one can think of only gives the coporate hegemony what they want. That isn't just true in the microcosm of pilot contracts, this is true for us as a nation as well. As long as we allow ourselves to be divided, or volunteer to do so as so many do on Flightinfo or as we do politically on a national level, we have absolutely no hope of improvement.

We must re-learn the art of living together in harmony and not being so cynical about everything. Trust me, I am the pot accusing the kettle here, but it is true nonetheless.

You're right, we need to all get along... let's unite by saying bad things about the ones who deserve it.. the mngmnt.. and ALPA.

 

[CessnaFan]

Boy did you hit the nail on the head with that one.

This post started out as a simple question by someone concerned about their friends at United and look where it has gone.

This is why we pilots continue to get screwed by our management. I cannot recall a single thread that has ever run more than one page on this forum where individuals haven't started fighting with one another. I could post that the new paint scheme for airline so and so looks good and sure enough some jack-#ss would have to make some snide remark about even that.

There are a lot of bitter people out there (and I must admit, sometimes it's me as well) who have invested a lot of time and energy to get into this profession only to besmirch everyone involved with it.

Pilots for other airlines are not the enemy, generally, management is. They are the opportunist who played on people's fears after 9-11 and who continue to try and convince pilots that we are equal in duties to FA's and the aircraft cleaning crew. They only way we can ever hope to regain some semblance of a profession that is desirable is to support one another and stop seeing everyone else as the competition out to put one over on you.

Arguing over everything one can think of only gives the coporate hegemony what they want. That isn't just true in the microcosm of pilot contracts, this is true for us as a nation as well. As long as we allow ourselves to be divided, or volunteer to do so as so many do on Flightinfo or as we do politically on a national level, we have absolutely no hope of improvement.

We must re-learn the art of living together in harmony and not being so cynical about everything. Trust me, I am the pot accusing the kettle here, but it is true nonetheless.