More signs the ATR is going away.

[TOOL CRIB]

I agree with this statement. We won't get it because our ATR rate is very high compared to the industry, ans introducing any other t-prop would force a renegotiation on the rate. ALPA doesn't negotiate rates until the airplane is on property, so ASA couldn't make a competitive bid in an RFP.

Then why is Pinnacle flying CRJ-900s with rates that are still being negotiated?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Then why is Pinnacle flying CRJ-900s with rates that are still being negotiated?

I should have said the ASA MEC, not just "ALPA".

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Ummm maybe because we're f***ing cheap?!!! In this industry $$$ talks and BS walks. They don't care as much about performance as they do about money. It's just lip service.

Respectfully, I disagree. Yes, our total costs are cheaper than other carriers, but if Mesa is known for being cheap, and has even worse on time performance, then why are carriers like United looking to get rid of them. On time performance and operating costs are not mutually exclusive.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Respectfully, I disagree. Yes, our total costs are cheaper than other carriers, but if Mesa is known for being cheap, and has even worse on time performance, then why are carriers like United looking to get rid of them. On time performance and operating costs are not mutually exclusive.

Because they're unstable. They will most likely be gone within a year, and everyone knows it. ASA will be around for a long time.

 

[gator_hater]

"More signs the ATR is going away."

Was there not a memo about this a couple months ago that spelled out there departure or did I just dream that up?

 

[John Pennekamp]

"More signs the ATR is going away."

Was there not a memo about this a couple months ago that spelled out there departure or did I just dream that up?

We've been hearing "they will be gone this year" for two years now...

 

[centralpilot]

Oh well, when will we officially know about FOs being denied class on the jet who have it awarded? Sounds like a good time to get bypass pay, if it's still in the new contract....

I'm fairly certain that bypass pay is still in the new contract for those who are bypassed for the CR7. However, with so many ATR FOs already awarded jet positions, I'm not sure who would be left that has more than a year with the company to make it matter. Also, the vast majority of ATR FOs with jet awards have been receiving bypass pay for some time, so it won't affect pay if the company decides to cancel their classes.

One thing I'm curious about is how the company goes about seat locking people when they start retiring ATRs from the fleet. I don't recall seeing any language on this in the contract. Is that usually negotiated with the union in a LOA?

 

[kf4amu]

ALPA doesn't negotiate rates until the airplane is on property,

So why did PDT set LTP rates for the Q400/ATR, when neither is on the property or even ordered?

 

[John Pennekamp]

So why did PDT set LTP rates for the Q400/ATR, when neither is on the property or even ordered?

If you read carefully, you'd see I clarified my statement. by "ALPA" I was referring to the ASA MEC, who has a strict policy of not bidding on "phantom aircraft".

 

[John Pennekamp]

One thing I'm curious about is how the company goes about seat locking people when they start retiring ATRs from the fleet. I don't recall seeing any language on this in the contract. Is that usually negotiated with the union in a LOA?

The way they did it on the Brasilia was not to officially seat lock anyone, but rather, just not let anyone off (bypass). That covered all the FOs since FOs can be legally bypassed indefinitely, as long as they're paid the higher rate. Since Captains can't be bypassed, they awarded them positions, but never sent them to training. This eventually led to a grievance because they were sending people not on the Brasilia (jet FOs upgrading for example) to class before the Brasilia Captains holding an award. They are required to send everyone from a previous award before they send anyone from a later award.

ASA eventually settled, but it bought them the 3-6 months they needed to retire the airplane and still have pilots. "Fly now, grieve later" is a great thing if you're in management. Expect to see it happen again.