More signs the ATR is going away.

[TOOL CRIB]

double post

 

[CFI2766]

Yet another pilot with a head too big for himself. You ever happen to look in the ramp, FA or ops areas around the airport? Guess what? They have all those D-0 posters all over the place too!! Your sense of reality is a bit skewed.

I would politely suggest that you and your own personal 'sense of reality' should commence an act of anatomical impossibility. Nah, I take it back: I won't be polite.

Pilots generally display a 'type A' personality as a group. It is this personality that greatly assists any success that we've had with getting flights out on time. It is this personality trait that is making the operation work, not a three color poster tacked to the wall in the various lounges.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe that it is a team concept that gets planes moving. Clearly, no flights would leave without the efforts of several groups at KATL. That being said, D-0 was clearly aimed at the pilots in an effort to improve our operational statistics. Fine, we'll do our part, but the true challenges on the ramp for ASA/Delta can not be solved from the cockpit.
Get us power carts that work, and, have hot or cold air as the situation warrants. Hire, train, and retain quality people to accomplish the tasks of ground servicing, from rampers, to fuel, to blue juice. Have some sort of a semblance of a professional air transportation environment for our customers. (The new gates on C are great. I live on D. I watched a lady walk up a swinging gate ramp and wait for nearly 10 minutes for her flight, an ATR flight, before she was discovered by a ramper.)
The ONLY change I've seen from the ramp folks is to take even longer to park us because they have to delay marshalling every single flight to the gate for a 'huddle' to discuss the same thing they've already done several times that day. If Delta would pay for and get the right folks to do this job, they would require less supervision, be more effective, and ultimatetly, more efficient.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I don't think CFI has an over inflated sense of his worth, but I believe we as pilots (and management knows this) that if you are going to entrust one employee group on the front lines to coordinate things, the pilots are a logical choice.

From my seat in the cockpit, I can see if the passengers are boarding. I can see if the fueler is hooked up to the airplane. I can see if the cargo door is open and baggage being loaded. I can see if the MX is squared away.

Looking at all of the front line groups, the Gate Agents are busy pulling tickets upstairs and can't see the whole picture. The Flight Attendants are busy greeting passengers, and can't see the whole picture. The Rampers are busy loading baggage, and can't see the whole picture. The Dispatchers, especially the SKW ones, are too busy posting on Flightinfo, and can't see the whole picture. (I know, there will be hell to pay for that one )

Brad was smart in my opinion. He knew what front line group would do the most for him in the case of correcting ASA's poor past performance.

PS It takes every single employee group working in unison to make these flights operate safely and ontime. Nobody is more important than another, but we make a good IAPS (systems knowledge alert :nuts: ) for the operation.

 

[PositionandHold]

How is the staffing on the ATR? I thought it was overstaffed, but there is 150% open time available now?

There are reserve guys who flew one trip this whole month on the FO side of the ATR.

Staffing is as it has always been the past few months: nonsensical

 

[John Pennekamp]

Yet another pilot with a head too big for himself. You ever happen to look in the ramp, FA or ops areas around the airport? Guess what? They have all those D-0 posters all over the place too!! Your sense of reality is a bit skewed.

What an idiot. This post didn't even make any sense. Hey, they have a cubicle waiting for you up on the 8th floor.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

I would politely suggest that you and your own personal 'sense of reality' should commence an act of anatomical impossibility. Nah, I take it back: I won't be polite.

Pilots generally display a 'type A' personality as a group. It is this personality that greatly assists any success that we've had with getting flights out on time. It is this personality trait that is making the operation work, not a three color poster tacked to the wall in the various lounges.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe that it is a team concept that gets planes moving. Clearly, no flights would leave without the efforts of several groups at KATL. That being said, D-0 was clearly aimed at the pilots in an effort to improve our operational statistics. Fine, we'll do our part, but the true challenges on the ramp for ASA/Delta can not be solved from the cockpit.
Get us power carts that work, and, have hot or cold air as the situation warrants. Hire, train, and retain quality people to accomplish the tasks of ground servicing, from rampers, to fuel, to blue juice. Have some sort of a semblance of a professional air transportation environment for our customers. (The new gates on C are great. I live on D. I watched a lady walk up a swinging gate ramp and wait for nearly 10 minutes for her flight, an ATR flight, before she was discovered by a ramper.)
The ONLY change I've seen from the ramp folks is to take even longer to park us because they have to delay marshalling every single flight to the gate for a 'huddle' to discuss the same thing they've already done several times that day. If Delta would pay for and get the right folks to do this job, they would require less supervision, be more effective, and ultimatetly, more efficient.

I agree with this post 100%. Forgive me if I insulted you before, but there are just too many uninformed pilots out there who will quickly shout out their opinion on a matter without trying to figure out why the matter is happening in the first place. A prime example of this at ASA is "why can't we have pure lines anymore?". I hear that complaint every week it seems.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Wheeeee my computer sucks today!

 

[TOOL CRIB]

What an idiot. This post didn't even make any sense. Hey, they have a cubicle waiting for you up on the 8th floor.

Hey why is your screen name red? You must be really special to have that honor!

 

[79%N1]

Called BM about that. He informed me it was just an extra prelim. There will be another prelim out with 200 capt vacancies next month.

What the heck do we need more 200 Capts for? There are about 130 reserves for 340 or so lines! One reserve for every three line holders? A bit excessive, huh?

 

[TOOL CRIB]

What the heck do we need more 200 Capts for? There are about 130 reserves for 340 or so lines! One reserve for every three line holders? A bit excessive, huh?

Well, people are leaving for other airlines. And most 200 Capt reserves have flown 80+ hours this month. Some have credited over 100 hours already.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Um, because it's never wise to price yourself out of the game? Unwise to make yourself a target by topping the industry? The best job security is to be competitive?

Weren't these your lines during negotiations? Either you're fishing or have Alzheimer's.

......hooked one....but I was trying to catch sweptback....

I was simply responding to sweptback who said pilots don't have anything to do with the equation of whether or not we get more flying....

The ALPA cheerleaders like to say that pilot costs don't matter.....but the evidence in this portfolio world doesn't support that....We are getting two more CMR airplanes in April....They pushed the envelope too far and are being punished for it....

The ALPA cheerleaders need to be pushing for brand scope....or accept the fact that we do have to compete with or fellow "brothers".....

 

[sweptback]

The ALPA cheerleaders like to say that pilot costs don't matter.....but the evidence in this portfolio world doesn't support that....We are getting two more CMR airplanes in April....They pushed the envelope too far and are being punished for it....

Really? Comair has lower 70-seat payrates and worse workrules than ASA, yet is giving ASA new airplanes because they are being punished for not being competitive?

We all know the real reason why the airplanes are being delivered here, and that is because Jerry negotiated that during the purchase of ASA.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Really? Comair has lower 70-seat payrates and worse workrules than ASA, yet is giving ASA new airplanes because they are being punished for not being competitive?

We all know the real reason why the airplanes are being delivered here, and that is because Jerry negotiated that during the purchase of ASA.

....OK then why didn't we get Horizon rates on the 700? Why didn't we extend the longevity for the 700 to match CHQ? You can't win this argument....Either costs do matter.....or our MEC/CNC screwed up on the 700 rates....

You cannot argue that costs don't matter and then justify a dollar an hour raise for the 700 folks.....Which is it sweptback??......

 

[sweptback]

....OK then why didn't we get Horizon rates on the 700? Why didn't we extend the longevity for the 700 to match CHQ? You can't win this argument....Either costs do matter.....or our MEC/CNC screwed up on the 700 rates....

You cannot argue that costs don't matter and then justify a dollar an hour raise for the 700 folks.....Which is it sweptback??......

I'm not going to argue with you. We got what we negotiated for and what the MEC thought the market would bear.

This is a weird line of questioning coming from someone who actively advocated accepting the company's offer and just "getting it done" anyway.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'm not going to argue with you. We got what we negotiated for and what the MEC thought the market would bear.

...."the market would bear"? I thought pilot pay didn't decide who got airplanes....Horizon makes money and they make significantly more than we do on the 700.....You're not going to argue because you can't win this one....

Once again.....either pilot pay does matter in the portfolio, OR we came up well short of what we should be making on the 700...Pick a side and stick with it.....

This is a weird line of questioning coming from someone who actively advocated accepting the company's offer and just "getting it done" anyway.

That's not exactly what I was advocating......My point was that there were 4 areas that we were holding out for up until 4+ years into negotiations that were not supported by the industry standard.

They were:

1. Large payraises on the 700
2. B fund retirement plan
3. 100% retro pay
4. Leaving the instructor section status quo

We didn't get them did we? Industry standard didn't support these 4 large ticket items.....and the MEC finally dropped these demands....That's why we have an agreement today.....

We are competing with PCL, Mesa, mainline, CMR, Skywest, and CHQ......Pilot pay does matter when you compete for flying within a brand.....Either prevent the competition within the brand, or accept it and deal with it.....

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Spoken like someone with a cubicle in the GO.

This "y'all suck, clean it up or we're out of business" lecture is sooooooo last year. We're over it.

All of you in management need to do YOUR jobs and go beat the bushes to get us some flying. WE ARE doing our part. ASA's performance is better than ever and still improving. Now it's up to YOU GO RATS to hold Delta's feet to the fire to improve ground servicing and make truthful delay codes.

BUT STOP BLAMING THE F***ING PILOTS FOR ASA'S PROBLEMS!!!!!!!

Uh....read my post again man. I wasn't blaming the pilots for anything. And I wasn't saying that the pilots suck at all. We, the pilots, do an excellent job, and I think that management realizes that. All I said was that we all play our part, and that we all need to join a team atmosphere to be successful.

Your post, and the attitude that goes along with it, is what will prevent us from reaching our full potential. The people in the G/O work hard too, and they want us to be as successful as you do. We all work for ASA, including those "G/O rats" you were talking about.

My point was that George and John are gone, and we need to get rid of this divisiveness, and give SkyWest a chance. Brad Holt has done good things for us already. Let's see where his leadership takes us, and stop calling people names.

Essentially.....Grow up.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Uh....read my post again man. I wasn't blaming the pilots for anything. And I wasn't saying that the pilots suck at all. We, the pilots, do an excellent job, and I think that management realizes that. All I said was that we all play our part, and that we all need to join a team atmosphere to be successful.

Your post, and the attitude that goes along with it, is what will prevent us from reaching our full potential. The people in the G/O work hard too, and they want us to be as successful as you do. We all work for ASA, including those "G/O rats" you were talking about.

My point was that George and John are gone, and we need to get rid of this divisiveness, and give SkyWest a chance. Brad Holt has done good things for us already. Let's see where his leadership takes us, and stop calling people names.

Essentially.....Grow up.

I second that. JP lives in his own world where he thinks that everyone in the ASA pilot group shares his beliefs. There's a good word that describes him, and that word is fanaticism.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree...positive changes are happening....some people just can't stand it.....

 

[Tarzan]

But whatever shall we do when the number of the things we can complain about, begin to dwindle?

 

[777forever]

...."the market would bear"? I thought pilot pay didn't decide who got airplanes....Horizon makes money and they make significantly more than we do on the 700.....You're not going to argue because you can't win this one....

Once again.....either pilot pay does matter in the portfolio, OR we came up well short of what we should be making on the 700...Pick a side and stick with it.....




That's not exactly what I was advocating......My point was that there were 4 areas that we were holding out for up until 4+ years into negotiations that were not supported by the industry standard.

They were:

1. Large payraises on the 700
2. B fund retirement plan
3. 100% retro pay
4. Leaving the instructor section status quo

We didn't get them did we? Industry standard didn't support these 4 large ticket items.....and the MEC finally dropped these demands....That's why we have an agreement today.....

We are competing with PCL, Mesa, mainline, CMR, Skywest, and CHQ......Pilot pay does matter when you compete for flying within a brand.....Either prevent the competition within the brand, or accept it and deal with it.....

I talked to an ALPA rep who has analyzed all regional pay including payrates and more importantly, WORK RULES. Horizon may have higher 700 pay than ASA but ASA's work rules are far superior. When all the soft pay is factored in, ASA 700 pays more.