More Competition in Milwaukee for Midwest

[CitationLover]

CL, you appeared to have seen the light over the last few months (I believe one of your posts mentioned that), but now your posts seem to indicate you've bellied up to the Kool Aid bar again. It would be nice if the Midwest concept worked, but with the current leadership it has not. The decisions about the fleet, destinations, Cat II/III (finally), advertising at the out stations (specifically the complete lack of it) -- all of these factors fuel my dislike for the Palace Guard. If the financial world believed current leadership could have been successful with their current business plan, then financing would not have been a problem.

It's because Midwest is managed by corporate flight managers and not airline managers. They have promoted from within and not gotten outside opinions. Lots of airlines these days have poor credit ratings and relaying that imparts no "wisdom" on our management's part. The concept of Midwest is not the sole property of one TH, but you feel it is and thus any defense of it is simply a defense of him: it's not.

all that being said, TH has run the airline for 23 years and has accomplished quite a bit. we are one of the few post deregulation airlines to survive and i hope we do last. if that's drinking koolaid, then i guess i'm guilty.

Personally I feel our value is tied up in those seats on the 717. I do not buy the koolaid of its the "people" of midwest. Our problem, as you mentioned, is a lack of advertising and differentiating our product. we shall see what TPG does in the future as their actions will dictate to me what their intention is. if they shrink us, shame on me, but you know what it's my butt on the line and that's fine. skyway was gone AAI or TPG (do not fool yourself), the timing of the announcement was clearly made to make TH the bud guy and not TPG. TPG now has their fresh start.

Last year, we were told that the websites, such as travelocity, hurt sales because people could plug in Points A and B and get a list of fares. People would choose the lowest price ticket, and some airline called "Midwest" is charging $50 more for the same flight. This is why they couldn't just add $10 to each ticket and give everybody a meal. It all adds up. This leads to the advertising issue. There is no advertising outside of Milwaukee. None. Ok, I did hear a radio ad in the UP and saw a billboard in northern IL, but it wasn't on I94. So how can Midwest expect somebody to buy a ticket on an airline that is suppose to offer a better product if nobody knows about it?

advertising is a weird issue though. the last air tran radio ad was the wendy's promotion. JetBlue has very little within the area yet their flights at ORD are doing well. Our advertising is usually tied into: a) usatoday; b) zagat awards. Every other year we do get free advertising with the Zagat award (and all the other awards).

in my area in the NW 'burbs i have seen 3 midwest billboards, but again the message is (imo) bad.
it's simply, "my airline is in MKE, no more ORD delays". it imparts none of the positive service that we seem to have so much pride in, but don't seem to sell to well.

since you all know so much about how midwest should be run here you go. put your money where your mouth is.

Financial Analyst III

Job Requisition Number: 19382
Job Title: Financial Analyst III
Employment Status: Full-Time
Location:
6744 S. Howell Ave
Oak Creek, Wisconsin 53154-0000

External Description:
Assist in managing the development and implementation of the company�s business
plans, strategic plans and recommend processes to improve effectiveness.
Evaluate capital projects and recommend projects that will contribute to the
organization�s profitability.

Evaluate the profitability and variances of existing business operations and
provide explanations of changes. Complete special projects as requested.

Budget through the entire planning process which includes development,
implementation and revision as necessary to help guide the company into making
correct business decisions in the future and the monitoring of business results.

Act as liaison with assigned departments throughout the organization in
assessing financial results and projects.

Develop and maintain rolling forecasted financial statements, by which one can
update for known operational, industry and market changes.

Participate in the identification, development and evaluation of new
business/program opportunities. Identify critical factors affecting the
profitability and evaluate the potential of proposed ventures to achieve profit
results consistent with Company goals.

Analyze the on-going profitability of all businesses, programs, and agreements
entered into by the Company.

Analyze capital project requests and complete as appropriate, which includes a
post completion report to ensure it achieved its financial objectives.

Analyze the profitability and variances of existing business operations and
provide explanations of changes.

Bachelor's degree in Business, Finance, Accounting, Economics, or related field;
an MBA is desirable. Five (5) to eight (8) years of experience in
management/budget planning and analysis. Strong data computation, technical and
analytical capabilities as well as excellent organizational, communication, and
interpersonal skills are required. Proficiency in the use of computer software
for planning, statistical and management analysis work are required.

Salary Range: $47,376-$78,156

 

[hyperboy]

Midwest

One Pilot legacy is not defined by his/her interaction on flightinfo.com but what they do in ground effect. Whoa! That was deep!

 

[Thunderchief]

I'm not sure why Citationluvr keeps saying Skyway was doomed no matter what. I have a good source that said the SYX operating certificate would have been used to fly Ejets for AAI. Whether it would have been SYX or Airtran pilots flying them who knows...
Now that SYX is not around to subsidize Timmy's poor decisions (there have been a shameful number of them), how will Midex make a profit? For years SYX has helped 'carry' the mainline operation, who will pay now? NWA? TPG? I think not.
-TC

 

[PCL_128]

I'm not sure why Citationluvr keeps saying Skyway was doomed no matter what. I have a good source that said the SYX operating certificate would have been used to fly Ejets for AAI. Whether it would have been SYX or Airtran pilots flying them who knows...

I don't think Skyway would have been doomed if our merger had gone through, but there's not a chance that we would have given up scope for E-jets, and there's no need for a separate cert for us to fly them.

 

[hyperboy]

We are JUST Pilots

Quit the Monday Morning quarterbacking and acting like we the pilots have any say. We don't....It's that simple. Don't be ignorant to think we do. The only say we have is if we are GONNA side step to the center runway. OK. Nough said. Hate the game not the Players!

 

[CitationLover]

I'm not sure why Citationluvr keeps saying Skyway was doomed no matter what. I have a good source that said the SYX operating certificate would have been used to fly Ejets for AAI. Whether it would have been SYX or Airtran pilots flying them who knows...
Now that SYX is not around to subsidize Timmy's poor decisions (there have been a shameful number of them), how will Midex make a profit? For years SYX has helped 'carry' the mainline operation, who will pay now? NWA? TPG? I think not.
-TC

are you high? who is your good source?

the SYX op certificate is still there. come buy it.

 

[FlyWolf]

I'm not sure why Citationluvr keeps saying Skyway was doomed no matter what. I have a good source that said the SYX operating certificate would have been used to fly Ejets for AAI. Whether it would have been SYX or Airtran pilots flying them who knows...
Now that SYX is not around to subsidize Timmy's poor decisions (there have been a shameful number of them), how will Midex make a profit? For years SYX has helped 'carry' the mainline operation, who will pay now? NWA? TPG? I think not.
-TC

Obviously you don't know anything about the history of Midwest or Skyway (even if you worked here once), I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Thunderchief]

are you high? who is your good source?

the SYX op certificate is still there. come buy it.

I knew you would ask me that, my source is deep in both organizations... maybe my source is more than one person...maybe it's just my intuition?
A good source would never be revealed, especially on a forum...nice try.

You seem to know so much, you tell me what they're going to do with the certificate.

Who is YOUR source? Or are you just shooting off your mouth? Of course a real good source could never be revealed

Do you have a inkling of what it means to be sold to a 'private investor'? The squeezing of the 'margins', that's what your investor will do. The 'investor' put up WAY too much money in todays climate to write it off. Your investor paid for MEH at $61/barrel, not todays $91+... I don't know what will happen, nor does anyone here. That includes those of us that sit on the 'board'...

You have said many times SlowtationLuvr that Skyway was 'doomed' anyway in numerous posts. I ask you that you think of the pilots that currently work there of how you cavalierly write them off as if they are nothing but a 'doomed' airline. You have no clue of the past financials of Skyway in their subsidy of Midwest, few people do because Skyway is a wholly owned company and can be reported 'imaginatively' in financial reports or not at all....Skyway people with dreams, families....Shame on you. I digress.

My question remains... How will Midwest replace that income lost by Skyway? Per departure fees with Skywest? Ask Delta how that is working...Any major airline that has per departure fee based regional flying for that matter. The 50 seat business model does not work in this financial climate. Period.

Every airline from the almighty LUV to the little MEH are trying to boost the REVENUE side of financials even in a unstable economy, why? Because there is no way to cut the COST side appreciatively to make enough of a difference to offset the rise in fuel.

Enlighten me, airway plug lover....
-TC

 

[Thunderchief]

Obviously you don't know anything about the history of Midwest or Skyway (even if you worked here once), I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

I repect your (and Citationlvr's) opinion. Please enlighten my in my error in judgement. Are you saying SYX hastn't helped carry the burden?

-TC

 

[CitationLover]

i have worked in the corporate world and know how it operates. it also is prudent to list your sources (you know footnoting, etc.) that real reporters use.

but hey if you think a midwest connect (96.4 million in revenue) supports midwest airlines (491.8 million in revenue) then sobeit. who am i to argue with such stupidity. i take it eagle supports AMR. piedmont and psa supports US Airways.

all figures from the 2006 annual report.

EAS subsidies are:
Escanaba - 908,903
Iron Mtn - 602,761
Ironwood - 409,242
Manistee - 776,051

so without uncle sam midwest connect is lower by $2.7 million.

and no i am not writing them off cavalierly, it is the reality of the situation that aai would have done what tpg did. but alas you can wax nostalgic all you want, the REALITY is that they are shutting down and the pilots at Midwest Airlines will do everything in their power to help their Skyway brethren.

 

[Thunderchief]

i have worked in the corporate world and know how it operates. it also is prudent to list your sources (you know footnoting, etc.) that real reporters use.

but hey if you think a midwest connect (96.4 million in revenue) supports midwest airlines (491.8 million in revenue) then sobeit. who am i to argue with such stupidity. i take it eagle supports AMR. piedmont and psa supports US Airways.

all figures from the 2006 annual report.

EAS subsidies are:
Escanaba - 908,903
Iron Mtn - 602,761
Ironwood - 409,242
Manistee - 776,051

so without uncle sam midwest connect is lower by $2.7 million.

and no i am not writing them off cavalierly, it is the reality of the situation that aai would have done what tpg did. but alas you can wax nostalgic all you want, the REALITY is that they are shutting down and the pilots at Midwest Airlines will do everything in their power to help their Skyway brethren.

Again I don't agree with your opinion that AAI was going to shut down SYX. If we could sit over a beer I could say more. Meet at the Landmark?

My point exactly, take away the 96 mil. Subtract 96 mil from MEH's 2006 income. The point I am making it is very easy to SKEW the loss or gain of a wholly owned subsidiary. Quote me please the ACTUAL money used by MEH to operate SYX IN 2006? WELL? That number (IF you could find it) will be much less than the pay per departure going forward w Skywest. There is a difference between 'supporting' and subsidizing... never mind but please MAKE NO MISTAKE, I HOPE MIDEX SURVIVES AND THRIVES IN THE FUTURE...WE ARE ALL BROTHERS! I just took offence to the Skyway slander, forgive me.

Have you ever heard of confidentiality agreements, old corporate pro that you are I am sure...

By the way your EAS numbers don't mean much without an assoiciated cost per city, but you're an old pro...

I wish I could say more!

-TC

 

[FlyWolf]

I repect your (and Citationlvr's) opinion. Please enlighten my in my error in judgement. Are you saying SYX hastn't helped carry the burden?

-TC

TC, forgive my previous post, I just get frustrated with all the slamming we get here at Midwest. I totally understand the Skyway pilot frustration with the whole situation.

We worked hard to make Midwest interview and hire as many Skyway guys as possible and we are working hard now with our MEC to help all our brothers and sisters at Skyway.

I wish you the best at Airtran and also to all the Skyway pilots, I understand that a big % found jobs already through the ALPA job fair.

Cheers.

 

[deadstick]

My point exactly, take away the 96 mil. Subtract 96 mil from MEH's 2006 income. The point I am making it is very easy to SKEW the loss or gain of a wholly owned subsidiary. Quote me please the ACTUAL money used by MEH to operate SYX IN 2006? WELL? That number (IF you could find it) will be much less than the pay per departure going forward w Skywest.

It's the funny math of the last 6 months that really gets me. Skyway was a "loss" because it paid for all the ground equipment to get Skywest rolling. Skyway had a staffing problem because many people saw the light and moved on, but MEH had not allowed Skyway to keep the training system filled with pilots. Skyway is on-time numbers are low because they are always waiting for connects or rampers due to low staffing numbers. Skyway is had mx delays because the mx staff was dwendled to such a low number that contract mx had to be hired. Why did it get so low? Skywest moved in and offered them better paying jobs while MEH didn't do anything to keep them. At the same time, MEH would not take any Skyway pilots in the hiring pool to "stop the bleeding." Midwest kept hiring off the street and the Skyway pilots kept losing seniority sitting in the pool. A vicious cycle of because of freezing hiring at Skyway, then not hiring Skyway pilots out of the pool because they were too short staffed.

It's because Midwest is managed by corporate flight managers and not airline managers. They have promoted from within and not gotten outside opinions. Lots of airlines these days have poor credit ratings and relaying that imparts no "wisdom" on our management's part. The concept of Midwest is not the sole property of one TH, but you feel it is and thus any defense of it is simply a defense of him: it's not.

It’s his watch. Plain and simple. I agree with the rampant nepotism at MEH, just look at the cookie maker. An inner circle of “yes” men/women is safe for the ego, but that is about it.

Personally I feel our value is tied up in those seats on the 717. I do not buy the koolaid of its the "people" of midwest. Our problem, as you mentioned, is a lack of advertising and differentiating our product.

in my area in the NW 'burbs i have seen 3 midwest billboards, but again the message is (imo) bad. it's simply, "my airline is in MKE, no more ORD delays". it imparts none of the positive service that we seem to have so much pride in, but don't seem to sell to well.

I know the one. I was shocked and impressed when I finally saw it. They will get a better price per seat and higher loads if they get the word out, but 2x2 in a CRJ is not the Midwest product. Now, people can connect in MKE and never get on a YX plane.

 

[CitationLover]

I know the one. I was shocked and impressed when I finally saw it. They will get a better price per seat and higher loads if they get the word out, but 2x2 in a CRJ is not the Midwest product. Now, people can connect in MKE and never get on a YX plane.

you've got 400 people on the other side of D concourse who will shout amen to that. did you see the little "nudge" from the company on YXNet re: peter king from si?

 

[CitationLover]

Again I don't agree with your opinion that AAI was going to shut down SYX. If we could sit over a beer I could say more. Meet at the Landmark?

My point exactly, take away the 96 mil. Subtract 96 mil from MEH's 2006 income. The point I am making it is very easy to SKEW the loss or gain of a wholly owned subsidiary. Quote me please the ACTUAL money used by MEH to operate SYX IN 2006? WELL? That number (IF you could find it) will be much less than the pay per departure going forward w Skywest. There is a difference between 'supporting' and subsidizing... never mind but please MAKE NO MISTAKE, I HOPE MIDEX SURVIVES AND THRIVES IN THE FUTURE...WE ARE ALL BROTHERS! I just took offence to the Skyway slander, forgive me.

Have you ever heard of confidentiality agreements, old corporate pro that you are I am sure...

By the way your EAS numbers don't mean much without an assoiciated cost per city, but you're an old pro...

I wish I could say more!

-TC

well an "unofficial" source is unnamed and thus a corporate confidentiality agreement is kind of unenforceable. just like those washington insiders leaking information.

the ACTUAL money to operate skyway is a moot point as the stock or the new LLC is the sum of the parts. if skyway was cheaper than skywest, skyway would still be around. it's hard to beat an undercutter with cheap old ACA birds. you get no argument from me that skywest enabled TH to dump skyway, that's exactly what sadly happened. AMR is trying to do the same thing with Eagle right now, selling off or dumping and going to the lowest bidder.