More Competition in Milwaukee for Midwest

[PCL_128]

Max, I would not take that bet. It is way too likely that TPG/NW drops its offer before the 31 and we end up with Midwest anyway. But for MUCH cheaper.

I hope so. I think that would be best for both groups.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Not slamming anyone here, but how did MEH do in Q4 and year over year. If they were way off projections from when the deal was made, I wonder if TPG/NWA are having second thoughts, especially at $90 oil.

There are a couple things. TPG/NWA is probably realizing they paid WAY too much and NWA now has other things on their plate to worry about. I bet they back out of the deal before the DOJ rules on the deal.

 

[Eagle757shark]

I believe this expansion out of Milwaukee is not about Midwest but AirTran establishing a good base for its east-west network. Before ATA went into Ch. 11, they had good loads from BOS, LGA, DCA connecting through Midway to SEA, SFO, LAX, PHX, and LAS. But ATA was using larger aircraft (757 and 737-800) and AirTran will be flying the same routes with smaller 737-700 aircraft. Why MKE and not MDW? I believe not having to go head to head with Southwest was a big factor. The only aircraft at the moment that can compete with AirTran on those west coast routes out of Milwaukee are Midwest MD-80s. The head to head competition between the MD-80 and 737-700 at high energy prices, well the 737-700 will win everytime. AirTran is testing these new markets during the busy summer season. If they do well, the routes will become year round. More cities will be added...DFW, DEN, PHL, and probable DCA or IAD. You may even see the launch of Salt Lake city as well. AirTran will attempt to maximize the use of the gates they have in Milwaukee. More JOBS for Milwaukee to come via AirTran.

 

[Propsync]

There are a couple things. TPG/NWA is probably realizing they paid WAY too much and NWA now has other things on their plate to worry about. I bet they back out of the deal before the DOJ rules on the deal.

Hey, weren't you the guy that started the post about Skyway shutting down? Either you are wired or have a great crystal ball. Anyway, my thoughts exactly. I can't imagine TPG/NW has the time for this with bigger and better opportunities out there.

CL- Everyone else is right. There is not a shot of you guys inking ANYTHING this year but concessions. Somebody said 2009, I'll put it in for 2010. That's for the sale. All bets are off if you guys get dumped. Then I'd bet on a staple.

 

[GOULET!]

I still believe most locals in MKE will chose Midwest over AirTran if the prices are close. What I was refering to Kharma with the 4 gates is they need to start new non-stop destinations out of MKE that aren't already offered by Midwest. There is no question that they will steal passengers away with the routes announced today but I agree with others that this is more of AirTran's own expansion now than just them out to spite Midwest.

 

[CitationLover]

Max, I would not take that bet. It is way too likely that TPG/NW drops its offer before the 31 and we end up with Midwest anyway. But for MUCH cheaper.

ahhh the tranny nostradamii are out (sorry that midwestern schooling kharma). didn't you say the AAI deal was a slam dunk? then stated TPG was simply driving the price up for AAI and JL? and now it's this?

 

[CitationLover]

CL- Everyone else is right. There is not a shot of you guys inking ANYTHING this year but concessions. Somebody said 2009, I'll put it in for 2010. That's for the sale. All bets are off if you guys get dumped. Then I'd bet on a staple.

It's funny to see the AAI guys (the usual "i told you so" fellas) rooting for us to take concessions. WE WANT THEM TO GET 50% RAISES BEFORE US SO WE CAN SHOW THE COMPANY WHAT THE GOING 717 RATES ARE. is it our fault they have been negotiating forever? we aren't rooting for the demise or concessions here. i want ALL companies to get raises, imbecile.

glad to hear you're so full of cheer though. i've been saying we'll get stapled (by AAI) from day one when the announced their intentions. federal law beat the deal though, so i guess now binding arbitration will happen if AAI buys us. as far as NWA, binding arbitration it will be there. so you see propsync, there ain't any more staples per se thanks to the TWA FA's lobbying their Mizzou congresspersons.

 

[CitationLover]

I still believe most locals in MKE will chose Midwest over AirTran if the prices are close. What I was refering to Kharma with the 4 gates is they need to start new non-stop destinations out of MKE that aren't already offered by Midwest. There is no question that they will steal passengers away with the routes announced today but I agree with others that this is more of AirTran's own expansion now than just them out to spite Midwest.

yeah, where is that twice daily CAK route they promised MKE?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

ahhh the tranny nostradamii are out (sorry that midwestern schooling kharma). didn't you say the AAI deal was a slam dunk? then stated TPG was simply driving the price up for AAI and JL? and now it's this?

Nope, not me. I only turned my crystal ball to AAI's future in the last couple months. The MEH deal was before my time.

 

[gt1900]

yeah, where is that twice daily CAK route they promised MKE?

Comments like that are the reason AAI guys keep saying I told you so. Your like a little kid grasping for straws. Don't be suprised to see CAK added in the future.... BTW. What happened to all the profits and growth Timmy promised you guys? Rumors of furlough at MEH, Skyway guys getting hosed, and continued losses for MEH doesn't sound to promising.. None of those things would have happened with an AAI buyout. Yet you still try and bash AAI every chance you get.. Hate to tell you this, but, AAI will eventually go into CAK from MKE, the pilots of AAI will eventually have mutually agreeable contract from the company, and the pilots of MEH will take concessions unless you are merged with another company. Trust me, when it comes to losing your job or a concession, you will vote for a concession..

 

[Kharma Police]

It's funny to see the AAI guys (the usual "i told you so" fellas) rooting for us to take concessions. WE WANT THEM TO GET 50% RAISES BEFORE US SO WE CAN SHOW THE COMPANY WHAT THE GOING 717 RATES ARE. is it our fault they have been negotiating forever? we aren't rooting for the demise or concessions here. i want ALL companies to get raises, imbecile.

glad to hear you're so full of cheer though. i've been saying we'll get stapled (by AAI) from day one when the announced their intentions. federal law beat the deal though, so i guess now binding arbitration will happen if AAI buys us. as far as NWA, binding arbitration it will be there. so you see propsync, there ain't any more staples per se thanks to the TWA FA's lobbying their Mizzou congresspersons.

None of my co-workers advocated a staple. It was the MEH ALPA who demanded DOH then acted surprised when our union said "no thanks". They then proceeded to back Timmy’s wonderful RJ growth plan, all the while Skyway gets the shaft, you might get an extended un-paid vacation, and Fly Wolf spends another ten years in the right seat, but hey, TPG saved the cookie, right?!?!

 

[PCL_128]

i want ALL companies to get raises

Amen to that. I hope both of us are able to get big improvements. I'm certainly not hoping for concessions for anyone, much less an airline that flies the exact same equipment that we do.

i've been saying we'll get stapled (by AAI) from day one when the announced their intentions. federal law beat the deal though, so i guess now binding arbitration will happen if AAI buys us.

A staple was never an option, and you should know better. Both of our agreements have M & A language that requires the ALG/Mohawk LPPs to be used in the case of a merger between carriers that aren't represented by the same union. It didn't take a fancy new bill in congress to make sure of that, because it was already in our contracts.

as far as NWA, binding arbitration it will be there

Actually, it will be ALPA merger policy that dictates a merger between MEH and NWA, if such a thing ever takes place (highly unlikely). And if I know Captain Snedorf, he's not stupid enough to let it go to arbitration. I'm sure there would be a settlement, per ALPA merger policy.

 

[CitationLover]

Trust me, when it comes to losing your job or a concession, you will vote for a concession..

you have that 100% wrong on my part. and you really believe AAI would have kept skyway, you're high.

 

[CitationLover]

None of my co-workers advocated a staple. It was the MEH ALPA who demanded DOH then acted surprised when our union said "no thanks". They then proceeded to back Timmy’s wonderful RJ growth plan, all the while Skyway gets the shaft, you might get an extended un-paid vacation, and Fly Wolf spends another ten years in the right seat, but hey, TPG saved the cookie, right?!?!

actually gt1900 advocated it, saying my posts would cause it.

MEH ALPA better have demanded DOH, if not they ain't doing their job. our mec got played and they know it. it's ok, we have 6 letters in 6 days ready to fight for us. :uzi:

 

[CitationLover]

....per ALPA merger policy.

if it happens, they play hardball, we play hardball and soon you have binding arbitration (per ALPA merger policy).

 

[Kharma Police]

actually gt1900 advocated it, saying my posts would cause it.

MEH ALPA better have demanded DOH, if not they ain't doing their job. our mec got played and they know it. it's ok, we have 6 letters in 6 days ready to fight for us. :uzi:

What is the significance of the "six letters", some kind of Dungeons and Dragons thing? "Ain't", come on man, did they not teach you grammar in Gary?

 

[CitationLover]

What is the significance of the "six letters", some kind of Dungeons and Dragons thing? "Ain't", come on man, did they not teach you grammar in Gary?

the six letters is an inside joke.

Gary is quite the tourist attraction. Oh don't mind the boarded up windows, they're expecting a hurricane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ROnN59R6MY&feature=related

 

[gt1900]

Nice try Citation.. What I said was if you keep bashing AAI on your posts, it would make guys want to staple you.. I never advocated stapling the MEH guys.... OK.. Maybe just you, but thats it. Besides, your so junior at MEH you would have been on the bottom anyways. It would have been a wash.

 

[CitationLover]

Nice try Citation.. What I said was if you keep bashing AAI on your posts, it would make guys want to staple you.. I never advocated stapling the MEH guys.... OK.. Maybe just you, but thats it. Besides, your so junior at MEH you would have been on the bottom anyways. It would have been a wash.

Staple me, puh leaze. Commuting to the A-T-L is not in my future. There's no water. One concern of mine would be saying "Citrus" on the radio. How effeminate is that? Ok, it's no "Spirit Wings" (that sounds like a maxipad), but it's close.

 

[flying zephyr]

I can't believe what I am reading

Aren't we all in this together???? Of course our MEC backed the company's business plan. I don't know what they were told, but I am POSITIVE that it included growth and new A/C. What makes pilots happy? Growth, Money, Time Off. Period.... We are all in this together. AAI and MEH pilots. What do you think is going to happen when one group settles on pay rates. The other will follow suit. I will admit that I was against a merger with AAI in the beginning, but as my friends there started to say stuff, I bought into it more. I don't think that we ever DEMANDED DOH as someone said. I heard that everyone said % placement on the list. Also, AAI pilots never said no thanks. TPG came in and closed the deal b-4 anything was even truly negotiated between groups.

I just hope for all our sakes that AAI gets an industry leading contract. The failure of your mngmnt to hedge has hurt, but I would keep pointing out to mngment. Seven years profits on your backs!!!!!!!!!!. God's speed and good luck. As for our future at MEH/TPG/NWA/DAL whatever, you never know, SWA may come calling on you someday, if I were you, I'd be wishing us the best possible outcome too. I have a lot of great friends at AAI and I wish them all the best.

Why does it matter if one or two at each company have bad blood. Yeah, it scares me a little to see AAI come after MKE, but we'll see what happens.

MY predicition FWIW is TPG sale goes through on the first. In the next six months you may see a transition over a period of time sale of some if not all of aai's 717 to TPG or NWA, or maybe even the other way, maybe 717 from meh go to aai. One way or the other there will be further movement of a/c. One to two years for MEH to be absorbed or sold in one form or another. I don't know where it will leave me, but I pray the best for all of us. Airline flying "aint" what it once was and with age 65, corporate raiders, shoddy mngment, and merger city on the horizon. Let's hope we all have jobs when the dust settles.