More Competition in Milwaukee for Midwest

[CitationLover]

I say staple CL, that boy have been nothing but trouble since we hired him, haha lol, I am kidding

Best of luck to the Airtran guys and us here at Midwest, after all, we are just pilots doing what they ask us to do.

CL, can scheduling make us airport reserve for 4 to 5 hours? I don't have my contract with me.

nope. they can assign you a flight or release you for rest.

here is section 15(D)(3)(d):
d. A pilot scheduled for reserve duty will not be required to perform any duty other than a flight assignment (e.g. no airport reserve).


now if you're a lineholder and they are reassigning you, you are subject to the reassignment provisions:

P. Reassignment/Reroute
1. For purposes of this Agreement, Reassignment/Reroute means a change in
the pilot’s duty assignment as provided herein on the same day(s) of work as originally scheduled. A change in flight number but not city pairing
does not constitute a reassignment/reroute.
2. In Domicile
A pilot may be reassigned or rerouted to alternate flights while he is in domicile, provided:
a. The new assignment is for the same day(s) originally scheduled; and
b. He is not required to report more than two (2) hours earlier than the scheduled report time of the original trip pairing; and
c. He is scheduled to be released from duty at his domicile no later than four (4) hours after the scheduled release time of the original
trip pairing.
d. The pilot will be reassigned/rerouted within two (2) hours of being informed of a change in his original trip pairing or he will be released.

that last one tells me they can screw around with you for a maximum of 2hrs before having to release you. and of course,they can always beg and plead.

good luck.

 

[FlyWolf]

Thanks CL, I think they are using the beg and plead provision in the contract

 

[FlyWolf]

On another note, I hear NWA have asked for our 717 training programe already, the rumor is the 717 to replace their 9's, and maybe get some of Airtran's 17.

 

[easydoesit]

On another note, I hear NWA have asked for our 717 training programe already, the rumor is the 717 to replace their 9's, and maybe get some of Airtran's 17.

What Wolf? You smokin?

 

[Propsync]

I think it's mainline denial about the 717's. Call it a training dept. dream. Look at it from their perspective- the 9's are slowly going. Without them, those training dept. guys may have to go back to the line. If I were them, I'd be dreaming of something to save me from going back to the line. And here we are.

Fact is there's no way NW would want those airplanes unless AAI offered theirs up for a song. Mainline gave up scope, now they are grasping for replacement straws. NW would be crazy to want to integrate 25 inflexible short-range aircraft. But I have been wrong before.

 

[CitationLover]

I think it's mainline denial about the 717's. Call it a training dept. dream. Look at it from their perspective- the 9's are slowly going. Without them, those training dept. guys may have to go back to the line. If I were them, I'd be dreaming of something to save me from going back to the line. And here we are.

Fact is there's no way NW would want those airplanes unless AAI offered theirs up for a song. Mainline gave up scope, now they are grasping for replacement straws. NW would be crazy to want to integrate 25 inflexible short-range aircraft. But I have been wrong before.

25 a/c with a lease option if AAI trades theirs in for 73's for up to 80 more with differences training (ie the cheapest replacement out there in terms of training costs) as the only training event. NWA could even buy the sims at Alteon and ship them up to MSP.

 

[gt1900]

You guys are dreaming... AAI isn't getting rid of any 717's any time soon. Boeing would have to give AAI 737's for 717 lease rates. Grant it, AAI didn't pay a heck of a lot for the 737's, but Boeing isn't going to give 737's away right now. Especially with the big back log of orders for 737's. I don't believe there are any delivery spots available until 2011. Unless AAI gets 737's from a leasing company, there just isn't any available except on the used market. Besides, AAI has learned what can happen when 1 company gives or sells airplanes to another company. I bet DAL is still pissed about that one. There is no way in he!! AAI is going to get rid of 717's just so they can turn around and compete with those same 717's in NWA colors.. You guys are grasping for straws now. Heck, if AAI could get more 717's right now they would. That was a big part of the reason they wanted to buy MEH...

 

[FlyWolf]

grasping for straws!!! No I won't go that far gt

 

[gt1900]

To think that AAI is going to get rid of 717's to NWA is ludicrous. It ain't going to happen. At least not for the next 5 years..

 

[fam62c]

On another note, I hear NWA have asked for our 717 training programe already, the rumor is the 717 to replace their 9's, and maybe get some of Airtran's 17.

Anything is possible in this crazy business but I don't see AAI participating in any deals that help NWA become more efficient. I think that AAI will sit tight and slowly apply increasing pressure in MKE (to the extent possible with only 4 gates) while waiting to see what happens with NWA/DAL. At some point AAI will start making noises about wanting to grow more in MKE but being constrained by lack of available gates. AAI is smart and I'm sure if DAL/NWA gets underway they will go to the DOJ and cry foul over the combined MEH/NWA/DAL presence in MKE and push for some divestment of MKE holdings that could come AAI's way. AAI has already said that a DAL/NWA combination could require some spinoff that could help AAI. Mark my words, if DAL/NWA ever really gets rolling MEH becomes small potatos and if it needs to get divested it gets divested. AAI is the most likely customer for all or part of MEH. TPG doesn't give a rip who owns MEH as long as they get their money. AAI can still end up the dominant player in MKE a few years from now.

 

[CitationLover]

Anything is possible in this crazy business but I don't see AAI participating in any deals that help NWA become more efficient. I think that AAI will sit tight and slowly apply increasing pressure in MKE (to the extent possible with only 4 gates) while waiting to see what happens with NWA/DAL. At some point AAI will start making noises about wanting to grow more in MKE but being constrained by lack of available gates. AAI is smart and I'm sure if DAL/NWA gets underway they will go to the DOJ and cry foul over the combined MEH/NWA/DAL presence in MKE and push for some divestment of MKE holdings that could come AAI's way. AAI has already said that a DAL/NWA combination could require some spinoff that could help AAI. Mark my words, if DAL/NWA ever really gets rolling MEH becomes small potatos and if it needs to get divested it gets divested. AAI is the most likely customer for all or part of MEH. TPG doesn't give a rip who owns MEH as long as they get their money. AAI can still end up the dominant player in MKE a few years from now.

if MEH is bought by NWA before a DAL merger, which a DAL merger is unlikely to occur, then there is no divestiture.

then who is better prepared to fight a two front (hub) war: NWA or AAI? if AAI goes after MKE, then NWA will hammer them there and in IND. AAI whining for more gate space is the grand strategy I guess.

 

[gt1900]

Citation.... AAI management has made it perfectly clear that they aren't afraid to go head to head with anyone. It would be different if AAI was trying to get into MSP or DTW where NWA has a huge presence. But, NWA doesn't have a huge presence in MKE, unless they buy MEH outright. With AAI's cost structure, and the fact that NWA doesn't have an airplane that can compete with the 717, AAI would have no problem competing in MKE or IND. AAI can probably do 50 flights a day with 4 gates. You can bet if AAI gets up to 50 flights and they need more gates, the city of MKE will find them..... Besides, AAI growth out of IND has slowed way down. NWA may indeed buy MEH and start MKE as a hub. But the only reason they would do that is to keep AAI out. In the grand scheme of things, NWA having a base in MSP, MKE, DTW, and IND will ultimatly hurt them. They would begin to compete with themselves. Heck, theyd be doing that with bases in MSP, MKE, and DTW...

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

I see a lot of Airline CEO potential on this board.

Very, Very Impressive.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Citation.... AAI management has made it perfectly clear that they aren't afraid to go head to head with anyone. It would be different if AAI was trying to get into MSP or DTW where NWA has a huge presence. But, NWA doesn't have a huge presence in MKE, unless they buy MEH outright. With AAI's cost structure, and the fact that NWA doesn't have an airplane that can compete with the 717, AAI would have no problem competing in MKE or IND. AAI can probably do 50 flights a day with 4 gates. You can bet if AAI gets up to 50 flights and they need more gates, the city of MKE will find them..... Besides, AAI growth out of IND has slowed way down. NWA may indeed buy MEH and start MKE as a hub. But the only reason they would do that is to keep AAI out. In the grand scheme of things, NWA having a base in MSP, MKE, DTW, and IND will ultimatly hurt them. They would begin to compete with themselves. Heck, theyd be doing that with bases in MSP, MKE, and DTW...

gt1900 no need to argue with citation. AirTran management knows what MKE has to offer. They have begun to put their plan into motion. The announcement of the additional flights out of MKE is proof that AirTran is not afraid of Midwest or Northwest in MKE. AirTran is looking to establish a base for East-West traffic flow. Meaning MKE will become the bridge between the East and West for AirTran and that is what management wants right now. MKE is the best city to connect the two coast right now. AirTran for the last couple of years looked at Midway and would have a huge fight with Southwest to make this work. Midwest is no Southwest and currently does not have an aircraft that can compete economically with AirTran. Southwest does out of Midway. So AirTran will try to make MKE their connector between the East and West for their network. AirTran has to establish a midwest city. They chose a city where they felt they could develop and grow and face the weakest of the carriers out there. Go to Midway and go head to head with Southwest, Go to Indy and go head to head with Southwest and Northwest, go to STL and go head to head with American and Southwest. Kansas City HAS NEVER worked for any airline as a midwest hub. MKE makes the most since given who AirTran will be going head to head with, a weaker Midwest. Northwest can buy Midwest straight up in the future, but AirTran may be well entrenched in MKE by then. So citation get over it, AirTran is in MKE and will be building a gateway for their East-West network. You will in the future see more expansion to the MKE market. By the end of 2009 you will probable see AirTran flying non-stop from MKE to: DEN, SLC, HOU, DFW, DCA, PHL, MONTREAL, CLT, AND MSY. Just to name a few. These are cities that were projected in AirTran's SEC filing during their attempt to buy Midwest. With or without Midwest, Airtran will continue to expand in MKE. It makes the most economical sense right now.

 

[CitationLover]

I see a lot of Airline CEO potential on this board.

Very, Very Impressive.

holy vodka batman, are you drinking again? imp:

 

[CitationLover]

So citation get over it, AirTran is in MKE and will be building a gateway for their East-West network. You will in the future see more expansion to the MKE market. By the end of 2009 you will probable see AirTran flying non-stop from MKE to: DEN, SLC, HOU, DFW, DCA, PHL, MONTREAL, CLT, AND MSY. Just to name a few. These are cities that were projected in AirTran's SEC filing during their attempt to buy Midwest. With or without Midwest, Airtran will continue to expand in MKE. It makes the most economical sense right now.

I'm not stuck on anything, you're the one posting all these articles and announcing it. Does Air Tran have a mental health plan?

 

[fam62c]

I see a lot of Airline CEO potential on this board.

Very, Very Impressive.

More potential than T.H. at MEH has, that's for sure. If it wasn't for AAI putting MEH in play you would have a $6/share stock right now. Don't kid yourself, most airline CEO's aren't that good, they basically lose money and blame it all on external factors prior to filing for Chapter 11........I'm as qualified as anyone to run a company into bankruptcy

 

[CitationLover]

More potential than T.H. at MEH has, that's for sure. If it wasn't for AAI putting MEH in play you would have a $6/share stock right now. Don't kid yourself, most airline CEO's aren't that good, they basically lose money and blame it all on external factors prior to filing for Chapter 11........I'm as qualified as anyone to run a company into bankruptcy

We got it, you hate Timmmay. Did he rape your momma or something? Go eat some grits.

 

[fam62c]

We got it, you hate Timmmay. Did he rape your momma or something? Go eat some grits.

Not exactly, but he put me and 400 others out of a job and if you work for MEH you'll probably be out of a job eventually too after T.H. walks off with his 10M. Enjoy your life under the thumb of a private equity outfit, they will squeeze your company for every penny and every ounce of productivity they can get out of it until there is nothing left. If you're lucky you end up on the bottom of the NWA and or NWA/DAL list. If you are unlucky they will just raid the gates/slots/pieces that they want without the employees and liquidate the rest of it. That way they get what they wanted, a buffer against a MKE LCC hub, without having to integrate a bunch of 10+ year employees and all of the hassles that go with a merger. We'll see how you feel in a few years when you're on the street and NWA/DAL/Compass/Mesaba/Comair/Skywest or whoever is flying the routes you used to fly. Maybe you'll get a preferential interview somewhere as a consolation prize. Bend over pal because bad things will be visiting you and all the good folks at MEH before too long. There's a lot of great people I know at MEH and I'm scared for them when I look at what's happening to us at Skyway before the NWA/TPG deal has even been signed. I hope I'm wrong. We all would have been way better off if AAI had bought MEH out, that was our chance to be part of a company with a future.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

very, very impressive, long paragraphs. I cannot write such long paragraphs about airlines, but here is what I know about Weird Al.

The only child of Nick Yankovic (June 4, 1917–April 9, 2004; an American of Serbian descent) and Mary Elizabeth (née Vivalda; February 7, 1923–April 9, 2004, an American of Italian and English descent), Alfred was born in Downey, California, and raised in the neighboring town of Lynwood.[6] Nick was born in Kansas City, Kansas, and began living in California after serving during World War II.[7][8] He believed "the key to success" was "doing for a living whatever makes you happy" and often reminded his son of this philosophy.[7] Nick married Mary Vivalda in 1949. Mary, who had come to California from Kentucky, gave birth to Alfred ten years later.[7]
Alfred's first accordion lesson was on October 22, 1966, a day before his seventh birthday. A door-to-door salesman traveling through Lynwood offered the Yankovic parents a choice of accordion or guitar lessons at a local music school. Yankovic claims the reason his parents chose accordion over guitar was "They figured there should be at least one more accordion-playing Yankovic in the world," referring to Frankie Yankovic, to whom he has no relation.[7] He continued lessons at the school for three years before continuing to learn on his own.[6] Yankovic's early accordion role models include Frankie Yankovic and Myron Floren (the accordionist on The Lawrence Welk Show). In the 1970s, Yankovic was a big fan of Elton John and claims John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road album "was partly how I learned to play rock 'n roll on the accordion."[7] He would repeatedly play the album and try to play along on his accordion. As for his influences in comedic and parody music, Yankovic lists artists including Tom Lehrer, Stan Freberg, Spike Jones, Allan Sherman, Shel Silverstein and Frank Zappa "and all the other wonderfully sick and twisted artists that he was exposed to through the Dr. Demento Radio Show."[9][6] Other sources of inspiration for his comedy come from Mad magazine,[7] Monty Python,[10] and the Zucker, Abrahams and Zucker parody movies.[11]
Yankovic began kindergarten a year earlier than most children, and he skipped the second grade. "My classmates seemed to think I was some kind of rocket scientist so I was labeled a nerd early on," he recalls.[7] As his unusual schooling left him two years younger than most of his classmates, Yankovic was not interested in sports or social events at school. He claims to have been a "straight A" student throughout high school, which earned him the honor of becoming valedictorian of his senior class.[7] Yankovic was fairly active in his school's extracurricular programs, including the National Forensic League (in which he "usually brought home some kind of trophy"), a play based upon Rebel Without a Cause, the yearbook program (for which he wrote most of the captions), and the Volcano Worshipper's Club, "which did absolutely nothing. We started the club just to get an extra picture of ourselves in the yearbook."[7]