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Mica trying to fast-track Age 65 - 12/6/07

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Disregard everything Caveman says. He lists himself as a NEOCON.

That means he was a liberal Democrat turned conservative Republican so he could use the patriotism of the country to dominate foreign affairs beyond American interests prior to 911.

Caveman is a flip flopper. He is for opposite ends of the spectrum at different times.

Caveman has been opposed to changing age 60 and now is for changing age 60.

Caveman is a NEOCON!

What is a NEOCON? http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_196286.html

Based on their definitions I guess I'm not a neocon. I use the term to mean ultraconservative in the same way the liberal media likes to use it as a pejorative when referring to far right wing thinking people. Actually I'm a libertarian.

The rest of your post is nonsense.
 
Who do you think gets the clearance, about 30 seconds...maybe 2 minutes if the freq is busy. Less than 30 seconds with ACARS. loads the box, about 1 1/2 minutes for an average flight does the weight and balance, shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes produces the performance numbers maybe 30 seconds and sets up the entire cockpit for the flight 2 1/2 minutes with no distractions ?

Those tasks are not done by airport operations. And those tasks are vital for the flight to block out on time.

Lets see some over the hill geezer try to load an ATC clearance with two intersecting airways without a named intersection. Let's see...OOD070/DPK228 and enter It will take ten minutes for the geezer just to get the right chart out of his bag.

The SWA FO have a lot of control over the system and will react badly should this law change. All they have to do is drag their feet for five extra minutes and when the captain blows up on them look over and say," You do it," while think about how old he is!!

I think you are overstating the difficulty of your job. You can BS the general public, but everyone here knows that you can turn the cockpit and get a Starbucks faster than the ground crew can turn a jet. If you have problems doing that, maybe you should pay more attention during recurrent. I can't think of any "geezers" I've flown with who've had any problems completing any of the tasks you mentioned. The great majority of "geezers" have been more than willing to spilt up duties between flights. If you find yourself relegated to performing all the preflight duties for all the captains you fly with all of the time, it may be an indication of a problem on your side of the cockpit.
 
You lost me on this. I read it several times and I don't understand what you are saying. Seriously, I'm not flaming you. I don't understand. Explain please.

I'm saying that wages post age 60 should get a haircut in favor of the guy leaving at 60.
 
Based on their definitions I guess I'm not a neocon. I use the term to mean ultraconservative in the same way the liberal media likes to use it as a pejorative when referring to far right wing thinking people. Actually I'm a libertarian.

The rest of your post is nonsense.

Then you should change your profile because a NEOCON is a very bad word and it doesn't mean ultraconservative. NEOCONs are corporate fascists who wish to take the power of the government out of the elected officials hands and control it from their elite inner circles. NEOCON's are war mongers who want one world government, martial law, and the end of the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and any freedom a free society possess.

NEOCON's are the enemy of America just like Jihadist terrorist.

Being ultraconservative and a libertarian do not agree with being a NEOCON. Your Marine insignia also does not agree with being a NEOCON. I know of no Marines that advocate and promote war. Marines only become involved as a last resort serving with duty and honor.

You should change your profile because NEOCONs are disgusting slime controlled by power and greed.

Put down ultraconservative/libertarian which would be accurate and admirable.
 
Wow, that's a little bit over the top.
 
Neocons aren't fascists. There's a happy medium somewhere between fascism and libertarianism. I'm not sure that the neocons have found it, but claiming that anything other than libertarian belief is fascism is ridiculous.
 
Latest update from ALPA

Here´s the latest from ALPA:

ALPA FastRead said:
Transportation Appropriations Likely to Be Part of Omnibus Spending Bill

Change to pilot age limit depends on bill’s passage.

With the end of the year quickly approaching, U.S. Senate leaders have decided against bringing the Transportation Appropriations conference report to the floor for a vote and instead have agreed to expedite the process by rolling it into an omnibus spending package with 10 other unfinished Fiscal 2008 spending bills. The measure would require approval by both the House and the Senate.

The Transportation Appropriations conference report that includes language increasing the mandatory retirement age of airline pilots to 65 was approved by the House of Representatives on November 14 by a 270-147vote. The Senate scuttled plans to vote on the conference report before the Thanksgiving recess after President Bush threatened to veto the bill.

Bush is making similar threats to veto any omnibus spending bill that does not meet his overall funding level. Democrats have proposed spending $23 billion more than Bush but have shaved $10.6 billion from their original plan in an effort to either win over the president or to lure enough congressional Republicans to trump a veto threat.

Much of the federal government is currently operating under a stopgap spending bill known as a continuing resolution (CR), which expires December 14. Congress will probably enact another short-term CR, lasting about a week, to December 21, if the appropriations work is not completed by December 14.

Negotiations between the White House and Congress will ultimately decide whether an agreement on an omnibus spending package can be reached before the end of the year. If a deal can be completed and the president signs the legislation, it will trigger a change to the upper age limit. If a deal cannot be reached, Congress will be forced to pass another CR—funding the government through the early part of next year while allowing negotiations to resume when Congress reconvenes in mid-January 2008.
 
Time to start making phone calls to the white house to remind President Bush about how important it is to keep spending levels down.
 
Caveman, I have a 7% B-plan at my airline, and a C-plan currently at 4% for my age group that's supposed to go to 12% in 2012. We lost our A-plan in bankruptcy.

These percentages are based on Age 60 retirement.

Airlines with retirement packages use life expectancy formulas. It stands to reason that simply by being able to work 5 more years, some bean counter will argue that I won't need as much in retirement benefits since my life expectancy from my retirement date is now reduced by 5 years.

Can you honestly tell me that you think that the management bean counters will ignore that and allow me to keep my B-plan and C-plan in status quo thereby allowing me to retire at 60?
 
Then you should change your profile because a NEOCON is a very bad word and it doesn't mean ultraconservative. NEOCONs are corporate fascists who wish to take the power of the government out of the elected officials hands and control it from their elite inner circles. NEOCON's are war mongers who want one world government, martial law, and the end of the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and any freedom a free society possess.

NEOCON's are the enemy of America just like Jihadist terrorist.

Being ultraconservative and a libertarian do not agree with being a NEOCON. Your Marine insignia also does not agree with being a NEOCON. I know of no Marines that advocate and promote war. Marines only become involved as a last resort serving with duty and honor.

You should change your profile because NEOCONs are disgusting slime controlled by power and greed.

Put down ultraconservative/libertarian which would be accurate and admirable.

Looks like somebody is off their meds! I think you should lighten up Francis and clean the spit off your monitor.
 
Neocons aren't fascists...
Of course not. I also think it's much better to be labeled a neocon rather than a neocom. In other words neo-conservative (Limbaugh, etc.) vs. neo-communist (Pelosi, Boxer, etc)...
Neocons are annoying, neocoms are dangerous!

That's just my opinion of course...
 
Of course not. I also think it's much better to be labeled a neocon rather than a neocom. In other words neo-conservative (Limbaugh, etc.) vs. neo-communist (Pelosi, Boxer, etc)...
Neocons are annoying, neocoms are dangerous!

That's just my opinion of course...
neo-conservative (abbreviated as neo-con or neocon) is part of a U.S. based political movement rooted in liberal Cold War anticommunism and a backlash to the social liberation movements of the 1960s and 1970s. These liberals drifted toward conservatism: thus they are new (neo) conservatives. They favor an aggressive unilateral U.S. foreign policy. They generally believe that elites protect democracy from mob rule. Sometimes the spelling is "neoconservative."
Rush used to be a liberal?
 
Hi!

I heard that Rush WAS a liberal. His radio show, at first, was liberal. But, he didn't have high enough ratings, so he changed it to a conservative to become more popular and make more money.

cliff
YIP
 
Hi!

I heard that Rush WAS a liberal. His radio show, at first, was liberal. But, he didn't have high enough ratings, so he changed it to a conservative to become more popular and make more money.

cliff
YIP

You heard wrong.
 
Then you should change your profile because a NEOCON is a very bad word and it doesn't mean ultraconservative. NEOCONs are corporate fascists who wish to take the power of the government out of the elected officials hands and control it from their elite inner circles. NEOCON's are war mongers who want one world government, martial law, and the end of the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and any freedom a free society possess.

NEOCON's are the enemy of America just like Jihadist terrorist.
Being ultraconservative and a libertarian do not agree with being a NEOCON. Your Marine insignia also does not agree with being a NEOCON. I know of no Marines that advocate and promote war. Marines only become involved as a last resort serving with duty and honor.

You should change your profile because NEOCONs are disgusting slime controlled by power and greed.

Put down ultraconservative/libertarian which would be accurate and admirable.

Let me start of by saying that we agree in one area - you are indeed lucky-to-have-a-job... ;)

Neocon "are the enemy of America just like Jihadist terrorist"?

Wow, maybe you need to educate yourself on the meaning of the prefix “neo” which simply means 'new' or 'new beginning' – in other words neo-conservative means new-conservative NOT a conservative 'formerly known' as a liberal.
What amazes me is that you seem to spew out all this hate toward “corporate fascists” “war mongers” who want “one world government.” To me it sounds like something I’ve read about in the past. There used to be another leftist party not too long ago that tried just that; they wanted a one-world government and they used ‘martial law’ to speed up their “revolution”; they also defined the term “war monger" for many generations to come, if not forever.

Initially they called themselves the German Workers Party (DAP) however they wanted to emphasize their socialist roots and changed the name of their organization to the National Socialist German Workers Party, or Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei - NSDAP from which the acronym Nazi was born. We all know how that socialist experiment worked out and even though the leftist massmedia of the world succeded in turning a true leftist organization (that even had “Socialist” as part of their name) into a “rightist” party – the truth is the nazis, the neo-nazis, the communists etc. all hate eachother and will do their best in killing each other off, yet deep inside they are all members of the very same gang – a leftist mob whose members will do whatever takes to cling to power.

So you keep spewing out your hate toward the neo-cons (and I’m not a fan of that “club” either) while I remind you of the roots of the organizations you’re so enfatuated with. Let’s not forget the “beacon” of American freedoms and liberties - the ACLU which I bet you’re an ardent supporter of – the two founders Roger Baldwin and Crystal Eastman founded the ACLU in 1920 along with three other organizations dedicated to the most leftist of causes. Both openly members of the Communist party sought to change the American society. If you goggle ‘ACLU and Baldwin’ you’ll find this statement...

Baldwin wrote:
I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself ... I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal.

How ironic that an in depth communist organization would claim the title of protector of American liberties some 80 years later.

My whole point is that you should not blindly accuse one side of the equation but rather look at both sides as the truth usually lies somewhere in-between.
 
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I read this in a open forum written to MICA

I appreciate what you are doing to extend the useful life of our most experienced aviators. There is nothing more useful than the experience and foresight gained from years in the left seat of a commercial 121 aircraft staying in the flight deck and not being put out to pasture. It is this life experience I want kept at close hand for safety issues caring for the safe journey of our passengers. I am 41 and as a 121 commercial passenger airline captain I don't want to lose these seasoned professionals to look up to, emulate and transport our most precious cargo, our passengers lives. People can say what they want about aggressive maneuvers and reflexes required in the flight deck but in my years as a flight crew member I have seen 6 engine failures, four operating as a flight crew member, two on the jump seat. I've experienced loss of hydraulics, loss of electric generators, fire in the flight deck as well as many other anomalies and experience and knowledge gained from these experiences is what makes an emergency situation end as just another experience to help train for future situations. I for one don't want to loose these experienced individuals to an archaic ruling that doesn't take into consideration a stipulation that would allow one crew member in the flight deck being younger and the other older crew member holding a wealth of experience and calmness would temper split second decisions which without that previous years of experience could result in exacerbating a situation. Please continue your effort to raise the age to 65 for commercial 121 pilots. I understand that this may take even a few more years but any work in this direction is better than no action taken to further protect and keep on line the wealth of knowledge we lose weekly. Those that act to turn down this direction of safety are those that are only looking to for their own self incentives.




How did this thread get so politically heated so quickly.​
 
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Still waiting for Caveman or any pro-65 guy to answer my question regarding retirement effects upon those who want to punch out at 60...

See the previous page for original post...
 
I have seen 6 engine failures, four operating as a flight crew member, two on the jump seat. I've experienced loss of hydraulics, loss of electric generators, fire in the flight deck as well as many other anomalies​

Do you fly for Aeroflot?
 
Who do you think gets the clearance, loads the box, does the weight and balance, produces the performance numbers and sets up the entire cockpit for the flight?

Those tasks are not done by airport operations. And those tasks are vital for the flight to block out on time.

Lets see some over the hill geezer try to load an ATC clearance with two intersecting airways without a named intersection. It will take ten minutes for the geezer just to get the right chart out of his bag.

The SWA FO have a lot of control over the system and will react badly should this law change. All they have to do is drag their feet for five extra minutes and when the captain blows up on them look over and say," You do it," while think about how old he is!!

Hey Lucky, if loading an FMS, either at the gate or enroute is your personal claim to fame aka, type faster or die" then so be it but I know for fact after watching a few hundred F/O's and Capts that this issue is spread evenly between the ranks. Airway to Airway....gimmee a break, piece of cake.
 
Do you fly for Aeroflot?

Do u know how to read..........

I said I saw that in an open forum.

I forgive you for I do not read or write good either if you were just perusing through all these posts.

I was googling who Mica is for unbiased opinions.


.
 
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If you have a contract it cannot be changed unilaterally. Period!

This is very short sighted.

We have contracts that speak to pilot retirement age. We're all going to go into negotiations wanting a raise, mgts are going to leverage the new age against our deserved raises, we're going to be working for status quo more than for a raise?!

Of course we know how you windfall types are going to vote. Thanks.
 
Thanks for the site...sent my message supporting the new legislation.

You guy's time would be better served by writing Congress for a change to the near criminal AMT tax situation.


AMT doesn't apply to us since our upgrade is being pushed back. I'll think I'll write for the AMT to stay for another five years............

That way they won't raise MY taxes to make up for the loss of your AMT taxation. I am allready going to lose money when age 65 passes, and then age 70, and age 75.....

Basic retirement investing teaches us about the time value of money invested. Money not saved early in the game makes a BIG difference that can not be made up.

You think YOU lost retirement? My defined benefit pension was supposed to be almost 2 million dollars. Now its gone. And all of my retirement is based on what I earn, which will now be reduced by those who get to keep more of their pension staying longer, and longer and longer.

There is a big cost for those who are hurt by a change to age 65, 70, 75.....retirement. In present earnings and future retirement. Sure we MAY be able to still retire at age 60 if we choose but with far less money. THANKS.
 
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Hi!

Last year, the floor for AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax) was $48K, before Congress raised it at the last minute.

It it's unchanged, the floor will be LESS than $48K this year.

cliff
YIP
 

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