Message From UAL MEC Chariman

[mbd]

This is the same crap the UAL-MEC have been doing for years. All they care about is the -400 pilots. DO NOT LET THEM DO THIS TO YOU AGAIN.

 

[captbert]

I would check that kind of attitude at the door- remember which group is larger and which group brought the widebodies which CAL doesn't have. An independent union drive can fold your minority group into UALs- this has already happened to one (cocky) group and it can certainly happen again. Your post comes across as non cooperative- you all have a lot at stake and you need to focus on management. This thing can go south quickly if your not careful.

The majority of CAL and UAL pilots are on the same page in regards to the JCBA and the SLI. My post was directed at a small minority of pilots that are looking for a special carve-out for their own gains at the expense of the other 11000+ pilots.

Don't worry St. Nic your pilot group is still be the most dysfunctional in the industry.

 

[nimtz]

THE 570 group is trying to cover their ass again. I'm sick and tired of em. There are only 25 747-400's and you are holding the furloughed pilots and narrowbody pilots hostage for you greed and potential seniority grab. Don't you get it? the 400s are gone in 2016...all of em. Too much energy for 4% of the fleet. GET THE CONTRACT DONE DO THE NECESSARY APOLOGIZING (BOTH SIDES) AND STOP WASTING TIME!

After a few days of confusion, I'm beginning to think that is what this is all about. I know how bad UAL narrowbody guys have taken it over the last 9 years. Like it or not they were shafted harder in order to give a softer landing to the widebody guys. Sorry prestigious whale drivers, this is a waste of a lot of good people's time.

 

[densoo]

After a few days of confusion, I'm beginning to think that is what this is all about. I know how bad UAL narrowbody guys have taken it over the last 9 years. Like it or not they were shafted harder in order to give a softer landing to the widebody guys. Sorry prestigious whale drivers, this is a waste of a lot of good people's time.

No different at CAL, although not the wholesale selling out of 1500 guys right to the street like at UAL. That's brutal. But CAL's B-scale, no medical for new hires, and inhumane reserve rules pretty much trashed the life of the bottom third.

 

[Jetjockey]

Call your reps, both airlines. Tell them to end this minor impasse that would benefit so few, it's blocking the road to progress.

 

[nimtz]

No different at CAL, although not the wholesale selling out of 1500 guys right to the street like at UAL. That's brutal. But CAL's B-scale, no medical for new hires, and inhumane reserve rules pretty much trashed the life of the bottom third.

Believe it or not, UAL's initial bankruptcy contract was worse then Goat Boy's Contract '02 IF you were a narrowbody guy.

 

[johnsonrod]

Call your reps, both airlines. Tell them to end this minor impasse that would benefit so few, it's blocking the road to progress.

I don't understand why UAL guys wouldn't want the 777 and 744 at the same payscale since they have a lot of both? That would be top scale for MORE pilots. Come on now!

 

[Jetjockey]

I agree with the CAL MEC position. Separate 747-400 pay rates benefits so few at the very top. Like age 65 didn't help the senior guys enough!

 

[jonjuan]

I don't understand why UAL guys wouldn't want the 777 and 744 at the same payscale since they have a lot of both? That would be top scale for MORE pilots. Come on now!

............................................

 

["TheBigPicture"]

Management:

Laughing all the way to the bank since 1903.

questions??

 

[waveflyer]

Why do you all put up with such disparity of pay between types?
Why do you not blend the rates?
I can't count how many pilots I know flying widebodies around at ages that they would rather not fly long haul routes- most would rather run turns and be home-
One scale rids you of the divisiveness and let's each of you perform the type of flying that you WANT to, not the type you financially have to do.

 

[Vref+10]

Wendy’s spin was nice. But the reality is that it is 180 degrees from the real truth.

I’m writing this as a CAL pilot who has talked to my reps.

We asked the UAL MEC what they wanted for B747 pay. Then we simply requested that the B777 be included in that same pay category, thus providing more pay for everyone. But the UAL MEC wanted the B777 to be paid LESS. Why would the UAL MEC want the B777 paid lower? That is less money for everyone. Simple answer – seniority grab. Yet they try to hide behind some resolution. Give me a break.

For any United pilot that wants to get on here and go on about “concessionary contract pay rate banding BS”… please spare me the crap. Look at the UPS pilot contract. All equipment is paid in the same band. Is that a concessionary contract? http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/ups.html A UPS First Officer on any equipment makes more than a United B767 Captain. Whether certain equipment is paid the same or not has no bearing on it being concessionary. The actual pay rate has more to do with it.

The ironic thing about this is that Jayson Baron has done more for the furloughed United pilots through the Transition Agreement in agreeing to hire all of the furloughed United pilots, than their own MEC has done for them in the past (selling them out on SCOPE). My understanding is that the UAL MEC sold the furloughed pilots down the river on the LOA that gave up scope further (whiteford?). Don’t get me wrong about hiring the furloughed United pilots - this is the right thing to do. But we could have played hard ball on the Transition Agreement and demanded certain things in return for hiring all of the furloughed United pilots. We did not do that. And for one of the UAL local council reps to come out and trash Jayson Baron in a blast mail is the unthinkable.

One more point worth mentioning. United’s contract had horrible language with regards to merger scope protection. Our contract did have merger scope protection. However, Smisek could have shrunk United way down and/or shifted flying to us. We also played nice on this issue in the Transition Agreement and made sure that United had the same level of protection to prevent whipsawing. If we were after some sort of seniority grab as the UAL MEC insinuates, then we could have played hardball on this issue, as this would have benefited us greatly on the seniority list integration.

Wendy owes the Continental pilots an apology. So does the entire UAL MEC. I trust that this issue will be resolved, but even after it is, I fear that the UAL MEC has created permanent damage in unity over this ridiculous issue. You have to choose your battles. This is certainly not one of them.

Some of you guys should think about emailing your United reps about this.

 

[Shrek]

Wendy’s spin was nice. But the reality is that it is 180 degrees from the real truth.

I’m writing this as a CAL pilot who has talked to my reps.

We asked the UAL MEC what they wanted for B747 pay. Then we simply requested that the B777 be included in that same pay category, thus providing more pay for everyone. But the UAL MEC wanted the B777 to be paid LESS. Why would the UAL MEC want the B777 paid lower? That is less money for everyone. Simple answer – seniority grab. Yet they try to hide behind some resolution. Give me a break.

For any United pilot that wants to get on here and go on about “concessionary contract pay rate banding BS”… please spare me the crap. Look at the UPS pilot contract. All equipment is paid in the same band. Is that a concessionary contract? http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/ups.html A UPS First Officer on any equipment makes more than a United B767 Captain. Whether certain equipment is paid the same or not has no bearing on it being concessionary. The actual pay rate has more to do with it.

The ironic thing about this is that Jayson Baron has done more for the furloughed United pilots through the Transition Agreement in agreeing to hire all of the furloughed United pilots, than their own MEC has done for them in the past (selling them out on SCOPE). My understanding is that the UAL MEC sold the furloughed pilots down the river on the LOA that gave up scope further (whiteford?). Don’t get me wrong about hiring the furloughed United pilots - this is the right thing to do. But we could have played hard ball on the Transition Agreement and demanded certain things in return for hiring all of the furloughed United pilots. We did not do that. And for one of the UAL local council reps to come out and trash Jayson Baron in a blast mail is the unthinkable.

One more point worth mentioning. United’s contract had horrible language with regards to merger scope protection. Our contract did have merger scope protection. However, Smisek could have shrunk United way down and/or shifted flying to us. We also played nice on this issue in the Transition Agreement and made sure that United had the same level of protection to prevent whipsawing. If we were after some sort of seniority grab as the UAL MEC insinuates, then we could have played hardball on this issue, as this would have benefited us greatly on the seniority list integration.

Wendy owes the Continental pilots an apology. So does the entire UAL MEC. I trust that this issue will be resolved, but even after it is, I fear that the UAL MEC has created permanent damage in unity over this ridiculous issue. You have to choose your battles. This is certainly not one of them.

Some of you guys should think about emailing your United reps about this.

All or nothing BAND EVERYTHING or band nothing. Since there doesn't seem to be a push for banding everything.....

Keep the JCBA and SLI apart - period.
ALPA merer policy states JCBA and SLI remain seperate processes.
Follow through on the agreement.

The UALMEC owes you NOTHING.

And please don't act like CAL was UALs savior.

Enough of the negotiating in public that BOTH of our MECs has apparently sunk to. See how well it has worked so far?!
Both MECs should be locked in a room until an agreement is reached. Give them food and water and bathroom facilities but no bed or shower. Then start a clock. In a week we would be beyond this issue.

 

[EWR_FO]

The UALMEC owes you NOTHING.

Trust me, we don't WANT anything. We are already having to expend resources to defend our scope section which is now under direct attack because of YOUR scope section. That is a fact.

If your MEC wants to play games and keep the furloughed guys out even longer, that's their business. They are f**king over a huge chunk of the seniority list in a futile attempt to advantage a tiny sliver- makes sense to me.

 

[whatitdoing?]

The UAL NC agreed to the 744 pay along with the 777 pay because it was a huge increase for all. The UAL MEC shot it down and is currently stalling the progress for a seniority grab. This is a fact and nothing more. Because of that, I can say our relationship with our UAL brothers and sisters is in a spiral. It's unfortunate that we have self serving people on both sides that will sacrifice the majority for their own benefits. We're talking about 11,000 pilots under substandard wages for a few hundred 744 drivers. The 744 will be gone in the next 5 years, so wtf is this all about then? A grab........don't kid yourself.