Message From UAL MEC Chariman

[Dirk Diggler]

User Name?

Looks like CAL is protecting the over 60 pilots again.

How many over 60 pilots did CAL have in the training department and in fake management positions waiting for the over 60 rule to change? 100, 200 over 60 pilots prior to Dec. 13, 2007!

Talk about a seniority grab. 200 guys are on the list today who should not be and the EWR LEC rep is protecting them again while hurting everyone in the process on both sides!

The protection of 200 at the expense of 11,000!

And all while the EWR rep plays a love triangle with the IAH sec. treasury against the IAH reps. running to his buddy the CAL MEC chairman to tell him the latest gossip. Outrageous!

Perhaps you should read your User Name a few times! This is not the same United of years past. You guys need to get over that and try to move forward to achieve an industry leading contract. CAL has done much better than UAL in recent time, so yes you should be "luckytohaveajob".

FWIW, before this merger was official, there was a very small amount of CAL employees who were very excited about it. UAL employees on the other hand were glowing with excitement.

Grow up and get over it!

 

[Ben Franklin]

It will be a cold day in hell when this CAL REP Goes To Management!
Will never happen!

Jayson Baron
EWR CAL CA Rep

It's forecast to be 39F in Houston on Friday...




Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Hvy]

What is written above is 100% accurate.

Jayson Baron
EWR CAL CA Rep

I did ask my rep. Someone that I know and trust. Here is his reply:

"Jayson has his own view or reality. He is pretty much alone there. We, too, accepted the pay proposal with the caveat of it not being used against us in the seniority integration. They never agreed to it. They wanted it all. Negotiations are about compromise. We did—they continue to refuse. It’s like dealing with a first grader…"

Jayson....I have several CAL buddies...they all seem to have the same opinion about you. Why is that? Word is that YOU single-handedly derailed the last meeting with your threats and ultimatums. You alone. And that is from the CAL side. Hmmm.....

We have to work together. There has to be compromise from BOTH sides. I certainly do not want to screw anyone out of anything. I want us ALL to be better off a year from now. But we have to work TOGETHER or we will follow the same exact path the USAirways has taken.

 

[jonjuan]

I did ask my rep. Someone that I know and trust. Here is his reply:

"Jayson has his own view or reality. He is pretty much alone there. We, too, accepted the pay proposal with the caveat of it not being used against us in the seniority integration. They never agreed to it. They wanted it all. Negotiations are about compromise. We did—they continue to refuse. It’s like dealing with a first grader…"

Jayson....I have several CAL buddies...they all seem to have the same opinion about you. Why is that?
We have to work together. There has to be compromise from BOTH sides. I certainly do not want to screw anyone out of anything. I want us ALL to be better off a year from now. But we have to work TOGETHER or we will follow the same exact path the USAirways has taken.

he's doing exactly what Obama is doing by referring to his enemy, ualmec, as the enemy. He's playing right into the hand of management by creating mistrust and long term divisiveness. Smisek is like McDonalds, he's luvin it.

How quickly to issue an emergency recall?

 

[waveflyer]

I find it amazing that a rep in this situation has the time to post on FI-

This is a big deal- and one that I'm unimpressed with- our contracts are not to be used for your entertainment- and the drama is exactly that- there are so many in ALPAs everywhere that have been fighting for so long- they do not know any other way-

Note- UPS has it right- same pay for all- let each pilot do the type of flying they want, not what they financially have to do- while avoiding petty fractures within the group.ALPA is nothing without unity and pay is just one other way to divide us. Which costs us all much more in the long run.

I do believe that there are many in ALPA that wouldn't care if they made $50k/year and long as that was a dollar more than the other pilots they know-

Two quotes I wish would stop being true- pilots are our own worst enemies- and pilots are the stupidest smart people you'll ever see.

One pay- for all.

 

[EWR_FO]

"Jayson has his own view or reality. He is pretty much alone there. We, too, accepted the pay proposal with the caveat of it not being used against us in the seniority integration. They never agreed to it. They wanted it all. Negotiations are about compromise. We did—they continue to refuse. It’s like dealing with a first grader…"

Ask your buddy why the entire UAL side, including the MEC Chairman agreed to it, and then reneged. There was no caveat, that is bs.

 

[AWACoff]

No actually you make my point.

I stated that arguments were made by both sides on pay rates, but that that the pay rates both pre merger and JCBA were inconsequential to the construction of the list.

IOW, you are wasting your breath and wasting an opportunity. Don't let it derail your merger.

Sign a seniority list process agreement that excludes JCBA pay rates from the discusion if it makes you feel better and then get on with it.

FDJ2, no, the section below does not prove your point since the pre-merger and JCBA pay rates were absolutely used in arbitration:

Please see Section XI, Paragraph C.1 through C.4 of the Ground Rules For The Northwest-Delta Pilot Seniority Integration Arbitration:XI. Joint Exhibits and Stipulations.

The following documents shall be considered Joint Exhibits and shall be submitted to the Board prior to the commencement of the arbitration:

C. 1., 2., 3 and 4. Northwest and Delta Pre-Merger and Combined Collective Bargaining and Delta LOA19.



They specifically DID use them for the SLI. You are correct in one thing, though. I am wasting my breath since you can't understand the section I quoted. What part of "Ground rules for the Delta/Northwest pilot seniority integration" do you NOT understand?

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2, no, the section below does not prove your point since the pre-merger and JCBA pay rates were absolutely used in arbitration:

Please see Section XI, Paragraph C.1 through C.4 of the Ground Rules For The Northwest-Delta Pilot Seniority Integration Arbitration:XI. Joint Exhibits and Stipulations.

The following documents shall be considered Joint Exhibits and shall be submitted to the Board prior to the commencement of the arbitration:

C. 1., 2., 3 and 4. Northwest and Delta Pre-Merger and Combined Collective Bargaining and Delta LOA19.



They specifically DID use them for the SLI. You are correct in one thing, though. I am wasting my breath since you can't understand the section I quoted. What part of "Ground rules for the Delta/Northwest pilot seniority integration" do you NOT understand?

Please read more slowly.

I'll try this again.

The arguments made over pay rates were inconsequential to the final award in arbitration.

The award simply had four categories. Wide bodied Captain (B757-B767-400), narrow bodied Captain (DC-9-30- B737-800), wide bodied First Officer and narrow bodied First Officer.

The pay rates both pre merger and under the JCBA varied wildly inside of each of those categories. It mattered not. In fact the premerger DAL 737 pay rate was greater than the NWA 757 pay rate, yet when the lists werte constructed it was not relevant. A 757 pays significantly less under the JCBA than a 747-400, yet each position carried the same weight.

Now do us all proud,and get a JCBA.

 

[St. Nic]

As far as CAL ALPA being worthless, I cant argue there. But I am sure glad they are digging there heals in on your cheep seniority grab with the 744. I will sit on the 767 making more money than your 744 guys for as long as it takes for you to pull your collective heads out of your butts.

Just remember over the next few years CAL has a greater percentage of pilots retiring and CAL has yearly deliveries of mid and widebody airplanes. UAL's airplanes don't show up for another 5 years.

As far as I'm concerned you can keep all your 744's, crappy pay rates, 70 seat RJ's, aging airplanes, and Air Lingus JV. Wow with that list it looks like UAL ALPA has been worthless too.
Ciao

I would check that kind of attitude at the door- remember which group is larger and which group brought the widebodies which CAL doesn't have. An independent union drive can fold your minority group into UALs- this has already happened to one (cocky) group and it can certainly happen again. Your post comes across as non cooperative- you all have a lot at stake and you need to focus on management. This thing can go south quickly if your not careful.

 

[ChrisJT6]

This reminds me of the UAL MEC Video with Herb starting by commenting that we really need to do everything we can to get our Furloughed pilots back on the property but immediately follows up with "but we really have to get the widebody international pay fixed", seems like the only real concern for the rulers of the UAL MEC. It's kinda like, "we will work for a fair SLI, but traditionally furloughees not on the property will be placed on the bottom" comments followed by fighting to the death over 400 pay/SLI while trying to convince the bottom 2000 of us, that will never see the 400, that this is in everyones (UAL) best interest.

The 400 was what won Delta a second slot to Haneda over United which bid a 777. The 400 has value on across both oceans but to use it in such an arrogance manner with 1400 pilots on furlough is crap.

Forget about EWR LEC Chair/bigmouth, Even if you don't agree with CAL MEC, apologize and get back to work privately and stop this I am taking the High Road Public Negociating tactic while so many of us are paying a high price (massive cuts/furloughs to allow your books to look better) to allow this Merger to exist, which I doubt either party would be anytime soon be getting any contractural progress from management w/o.