Message From UAL MEC Chariman

[chppr5]

Dude you must be 4 foot 0h. UAL is negotiating toward contract 2000 and beyond. CAL (at least the objectionist on here) are just simply happy to get their loan back as long as their 26 aging 767s stay banded. You're not the only one dying to get back on the property but by any means necessary? A solid contract (Section 1 thru Section 2X) that is separate and independent of SLI is what UALMEC is determine to achieve. Seem like they'll have to carry Jay along the way but in the end he won't regret it. Jayson Baron does want the 747 unbanded but in the followup contract to JCBA. What does that tell you?

Section III: Unband and significantly raise the rates for each aircraft in the inventory, PERIOD. That simple!!

AMEN! This is NOT just about the 744, its about the whole fleet. Banding promotes stagnation.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Like I said I will be talking to my rep and get the straight scoop so I can get the facts. I apologize perhaps I got too upset. Just sick of looking at the teens flying our routes with pathetic quality given to the UAL customer and sick of the C11 contract. I'm not against anybody at CAL and especially UAL. We are now one big family and I do realize family feuds can be ugly.

 

[General Lee]

AMEN! This is NOT just about the 744, its about the whole fleet. Banding promotes stagnation.

Hey, how about you get the same rates for 777 and 744, and then people won't move from aircraft to aircraft for pay reasons. Sure, there may be a 5 year fence for CAL people on the 744, but UAL pilots may just stay on the 777 if the pay is the same. It makes a lot of sense, and isn't unfair to CAL pilots since they don't have 744s anyway. Their top people deserve the same pay as the top UAL people, and that is how DL did it. If you disagree, you are a greedy jerk with an ego. Sad but true.

But, MOST OF YOU ARE COOL REGARDLESS. HAVE A FUN NIGHT!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[EWR_FO]

A buddy that has flown both at UA points out that on the 744, the freight forwarder would just buy the freight space and then let you fill the seats. This seriously should not be a johnson-measuring contest, but saying the 777>744 is flawed.

The 744 cannot go from HKG-EWR fully loaded, that was my point.

 

[EWR_FO]

The DOT of transportation cited Delta's bid to the coveted Haneda Airport using the 744 vice UAL / CAL bids w a 777 as the reason why they choose Delta to get 2 slots and CAL or UAL none. They wanted max compacity on the new routes and the 400 gives it to them. Apparently regulators disagree with you...so do the cargo haulers who have brought in a lot of rev in good and bad times.

I guess the fact that UAL has twice as many 777's as 744's has nothing to do with efficiency. If it is so efficient, why not buy more?

 

[EWR_FO]

CAL (at least the objectionist on here) are just simply happy to get their loan back as long as their 26 aging 767s stay banded.

That's laughable, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go talk to someone involved in the process and you will see how foolish this statement is.

 

[densoo]

United Chairman Glenn Tilton also "warns of catastrophe should the merger fail." --Aviation Week

What else can be said to an SLI arbitrator about "career expectations" than what UAL's own CEO has said himself.

 

[rumrunner300]

Jesus, really?

What else can be said to an SLI arbitrator about "career expectations" than what UAL's own CEO has said himself.

Think harder, you can do it! I believe in you.....after all, idiots are people too.

rr

 

[General Lee]

The 744 cannot go from HKG-EWR fully loaded, that was my point.

777s and 744s BOTH make money in good times, but 744s lose more money in bad times. (777s can cover for them) Regardless, they should be paid the SAME if one company has 744s as the largest, and the other company has 777s as the largest on their side. It is only fair. It allows a lot more people to have top scale pay. This is ridiculous.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[densoo]

they should be paid the SAME if one company has 744s as the largest, and the other company has 777s as the largest on their side. It is only fair.

So if American merges with Great Lakes, then the 777 and the Embraer 120 should be paid this same? Each is the largest at each airline.

 

[waveflyer]

One payrate for all a/c

 

[chppr5]

777s and 744s BOTH make money in good times, but 744s lose more money in bad times. (777s can cover for them) Regardless, they should be paid the SAME if one company has 744s as the largest, and the other company has 777s as the largest on their side. It is only fair. It allows a lot more people to have top scale pay. This is ridiculous.


Bye Bye--General Lee

CAL is trying to keep the 764 banded with the 777 and wants the 738 to have its own scale. Again, this is not JUST about the 744. Call your reps and get ALL the info before spouting off! Ask them what they want to band and un-band.

 

[EWR_FO]

The DOT of transportation cited Delta's bid to the coveted Haneda Airport using the 744 vice UAL / CAL bids w a 777 as the reason why they choose Delta to get 2 slots and CAL or UAL none. They wanted max compacity on the new routes and the 400 gives it to them. Apparently regulators disagree with you...so do the cargo haulers who have brought in a lot of rev in good and bad times.

The DOT doesn't award anything, the DOJ does- but you knew that. The DOJ does not give a rat's a** about profitability. Flying a 744 out of Haneda, in the bogus time slots they were awarding, will most likely not work. Make your case, get in the door, petition for change- that's the game and I understand that.

A long haul widebody aircraft's economics are based on a lot of factors, the BIG one being the cost of fuel. With oil at $30 a barrel the 744 is a monster, with oil at $85 a barrel it is a moneypit most (not all) of the time.

In the mid-nineties 90+% of the airplanes on the ground at NRT were 747's, today it's probably in the 20+% range -there is a reason for that.

 

[Crucianpilot]

After reading the last 9 pages of this thread, I have to say there are so many different viewpoints on this that it is going to be impossible for us to agree. However, what I do know is that management must be having a ball watching us bitch and moan about what each side deserves in this contract. May I suggest we stop all of this and work as a collective unit to secure a lucrative contract for our futures. Company is making money hand and fist, trying to exploit ways around scope which will ultimately result in furloughs of mainline pilots and dragging contract negotiations along. Quite all of this bull******************** arguing and focus on what is important. We are the biggest airline in the country, lets get paid for it!

 

[Yuppyguppy]

After reading the last 9 pages of this thread, I have to say there are so many different viewpoints on this that it is going to be impossible for us to agree. However, what I do know is that management must be having a ball watching us bitch and moan about what each side deserves in this contract. May I suggest we stop all of this and work as a collective unit to secure a lucrative contract for our futures. Company is making money hand and fist, trying to exploit ways around scope which will ultimately result in furloughs of mainline pilots and dragging contract negotiations along. Quite all of this bull******************** arguing and focus on what is important. We are the biggest airline in the country, lets get paid for it!

F$$k YEAH!

 

[ChrisJT6]

I guess the fact that UAL has twice as many 777's as 744's has nothing to do with efficiency. If it is so efficient, why not buy more?

Both airlines utilize twice as many Narrowbody/RJs, not sure about the point you made...it is not just about your definition of efficiency...on 14+hr flights in which foreign ports are limited in slots...DOT wanted max pax and cargo capacity and the 744 wins. You don't buy more because you don't need more to do the few trips fitting this need.
Oh by the way, I witnessed a UAL 744 coming out of the Desert last month in Victorville CA; heading back to service w UAL when I asked the Airport Manager. There are a lot of premium seats on a 744 and when times are okay they make a lot of money.

 

[ChrisJT6]

The DOT doesn't award anything, the DOJ does- but you knew that. The DOJ does not give a rat's a** about profitability. Flying a 744 out of Haneda, in the bogus time slots they were awarding, will most likely not work. Make your case, get in the door, petition for change- that's the game and I understand that.

A long haul widebody aircraft's economics are based on a lot of factors, the BIG one being the cost of fuel. With oil at $30 a barrel the 744 is a monster, with oil at $85 a barrel it is a moneypit most (not all) of the time.

In the mid-nineties 90+% of the airplanes on the ground at NRT were 747's, today it's probably in the 20+% range -there is a reason for that.

Genius,

Done. Oh fuel efficiency guru...UPS!!!

DOT 134-10
Contact: Bill Mosley
Tel.: (202) 366-4570 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (202) 366-4570 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Tuesday, July 6, 2010

DOT Announces Final Decision to Award Four Routes
at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport​

The U.S. Department of Transportation today awarded four routes to Tokyo’s downtown Haneda Airport to American Airlines at New York, Delta Air Lines at Los Angeles and Detroit, and Hawaiian Airlines at Honolulu, with service to begin when the airport’s fourth runway becomes operational later this year. Today’s action makes final the tentative decision of May 7.

 

[EWR_FO]

Both airlines utilize twice as many Narrowbody/RJs, not sure about the point you made...it is not just about your definition of efficiency...on 14+hr flights in which foreign ports are limited in slots...DOT wanted max pax and cargo capacity and the 744 wins. You don't buy more because you don't need more to do the few trips fitting this need.
Oh by the way, I witnessed a UAL 744 coming out of the Desert last month in Victorville CA; heading back to service w UAL when I asked the Airport Manager. There are a lot of premium seats on a 744 and when times are okay they make a lot of money.

What 14+ hour flights do UAL 747's do? What is the definition of "ok."

 

[EWR_FO]

Both airlines utilize twice as many Narrowbody/RJs, not sure about the point you made...it is not just about your definition of efficiency...on 14+hr flights in which foreign ports are limited in slots...DOT wanted max pax and cargo capacity and the 744 wins. You don't buy more because you don't need more to do the few trips fitting this need.
Oh by the way, I witnessed a UAL 744 coming out of the Desert last month in Victorville CA; heading back to service w UAL when I asked the Airport Manager. There are a lot of premium seats on a 744 and when times are okay they make a lot of money.

Again, the government does not give a s**t about profitability. We'll see how long they fly that route with a 747. Departing at o' dark thirty could probably be covered with a 767, premium passengers don't want to get to their destination in the middle of the night.

 

[johnsonrod]

What 14+ hour flights do UAL 747's do? What is the definition of "ok."

LAX and SFO to SYD.