Message From UAL MEC Chariman

[ChrisJT6]

I guess the fact that UAL has twice as many 777's as 744's has nothing to do with efficiency. If it is so efficient, why not buy more?

Both airlines utilize twice as many Narrowbody/RJs, not sure about the point you made...it is not just about your definition of efficiency...on 14+hr flights in which foreign ports are limited in slots...DOT wanted max pax and cargo capacity and the 744 wins. You don't buy more because you don't need more to do the few trips fitting this need.
Oh by the way, I witnessed a UAL 744 coming out of the Desert last month in Victorville CA; heading back to service w UAL when I asked the Airport Manager. There are a lot of premium seats on a 744 and when times are okay they make a lot of money.

 

[ChrisJT6]

The DOT doesn't award anything, the DOJ does- but you knew that. The DOJ does not give a rat's a** about profitability. Flying a 744 out of Haneda, in the bogus time slots they were awarding, will most likely not work. Make your case, get in the door, petition for change- that's the game and I understand that.

A long haul widebody aircraft's economics are based on a lot of factors, the BIG one being the cost of fuel. With oil at $30 a barrel the 744 is a monster, with oil at $85 a barrel it is a moneypit most (not all) of the time.

In the mid-nineties 90+% of the airplanes on the ground at NRT were 747's, today it's probably in the 20+% range -there is a reason for that.

Genius,

Done. Oh fuel efficiency guru...UPS!!!

DOT 134-10
Contact: Bill Mosley
Tel.: (202) 366-4570 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (202) 366-4570 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Tuesday, July 6, 2010

DOT Announces Final Decision to Award Four Routes
at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport​

The U.S. Department of Transportation today awarded four routes to Tokyo’s downtown Haneda Airport to American Airlines at New York, Delta Air Lines at Los Angeles and Detroit, and Hawaiian Airlines at Honolulu, with service to begin when the airport’s fourth runway becomes operational later this year. Today’s action makes final the tentative decision of May 7.

 

[EWR_FO]

Both airlines utilize twice as many Narrowbody/RJs, not sure about the point you made...it is not just about your definition of efficiency...on 14+hr flights in which foreign ports are limited in slots...DOT wanted max pax and cargo capacity and the 744 wins. You don't buy more because you don't need more to do the few trips fitting this need.
Oh by the way, I witnessed a UAL 744 coming out of the Desert last month in Victorville CA; heading back to service w UAL when I asked the Airport Manager. There are a lot of premium seats on a 744 and when times are okay they make a lot of money.

What 14+ hour flights do UAL 747's do? What is the definition of "ok."

 

[EWR_FO]

Both airlines utilize twice as many Narrowbody/RJs, not sure about the point you made...it is not just about your definition of efficiency...on 14+hr flights in which foreign ports are limited in slots...DOT wanted max pax and cargo capacity and the 744 wins. You don't buy more because you don't need more to do the few trips fitting this need.
Oh by the way, I witnessed a UAL 744 coming out of the Desert last month in Victorville CA; heading back to service w UAL when I asked the Airport Manager. There are a lot of premium seats on a 744 and when times are okay they make a lot of money.

Again, the government does not give a s**t about profitability. We'll see how long they fly that route with a 747. Departing at o' dark thirty could probably be covered with a 767, premium passengers don't want to get to their destination in the middle of the night.

 

[johnsonrod]

What 14+ hour flights do UAL 747's do? What is the definition of "ok."

LAX and SFO to SYD.

 

[eaglesview]

what 14+ hour flights do ual 747's do? What is the definition of "ok."

ord hkg

 

[EWR_FO]

So a whole fleet of 25+ airplanes for two flights? Makes sense to me.

 

[ChrisJT6]

So a whole fleet of 25+ airplanes for two flights? Makes sense to me.

When your product is designed around business customers and the 25 aircraft can carry many of them to Bahrain, Africa, Hong Kong, Australia and bet on India again...the small 25 airplane fleet is a profitable fleet...I guess okay times would be when you are making a profit.

Never said the Government cared about profitibility, but the companies that bid the 777 instead of the 744 lost a bunch of high dollar Japanese $10K/ticket customers.

I fly 707s all over the world while I am furloughed and will never see the 744, so I know about inefficiency but don't understand why a CAL pilot would be so adversarial about a plane that has and is again making big $$ for UAL. I leave for Sydney on UAL this week and the plane is sold out as always w/ a 11pm departure (what the customer wants)...checked yesterday and the last few business seats sold for $15k. When you have twice as many premium seats as a 777 and the times are profitable....you can make a lot of $$ in the 744.

Also, I try and make a habit of getting my facts mostly straight before I bust someone's marbles ie. your DOJ v DOT inaccuracy. Try it...you'll feel better.

 

[EWR_FO]

When your product is designed around business customers and the 25 aircraft can carry many of them to Bahrain, Africa, Hong Kong, Australia and bet on India again...the small 25 airplane fleet is a profitable fleet...I guess okay times would be when you are making a profit.

Never said the Government cared about profitibility, but the companies that bid the 777 instead of the 744 lost a bunch of high dollar Japanese $10K/ticket customers.

I fly 707s all over the world while I am furloughed and will never see the 744, so I know about inefficiency but don't understand why a CAL pilot would be so adversarial about a plane that has and is again making big $$ for UAL. I leave for Sydney on UAL this week and the plane is sold out as always w/ a 11pm departure (what the customer wants)...checked yesterday and the last few business seats sold for $15k. When you have twice as many premium seats as a 777 and the times are profitable....you can make a lot of $$ in the 744.

Also, I try and make a habit of getting my facts mostly straight before I bust someone's marbles ie. your DOJ v DOT inaccuracy. Try it...you'll feel better.

The fact that the airplane is full doesn't mean it's profitable, although LA-SYD almost assuredly is. My contention is the 744 is NOT the profit machine some think, if it was the worldwide fleet of them would not be shrinking. A DC-9 can be profitable when times are good, unfortunately "times" change daily.

 

[chppr5]

Hey, how about you get the same rates for 777 and 744, and then people won't move from aircraft to aircraft for pay reasons. Sure, there may be a 5 year fence for CAL people on the 744, but UAL pilots may just stay on the 777 if the pay is the same. It makes a lot of sense, and isn't unfair to CAL pilots since they don't have 744s anyway. Their top people deserve the same pay as the top UAL people, and that is how DL did it. If you disagree, you are a greedy jerk with an ego. Sad but true.

But, MOST OF YOU ARE COOL REGARDLESS. HAVE A FUN NIGHT!


Bye Bye--General Lee

You should get some more facts before you start your childish name calling. The CAL MEC wants to band the 764 with the 777/744 and they want to band the 319/320 with the 735/733. There are two sides to every story. Just because the mighty D does something does not make it right. IMHO each aircraft type should have its own pay scale. Banding is a concession being rolled over from the BK decade and we all seem to have accepted it as normal practice.

 

[waveflyer]

If you want to help the industry- blend all rates to one- let pilots do the type of flying they want to instead of what they financially ought to do-
Recognize the equal contribution of all pilots and show mgmt how unified you are-

Sadly- there is an enormous contingent of ALPa major airline pilots that don't care what they make- as long as it's more than the next guy- this is one root cause for every paycut you've experienced

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