Message From UAL MEC Chariman

[chppr5]

There won't be any new 744s in the future, and we probably won't keep the ones we have. It would be totally different if we had some of these on order. There is only one reason to try and single these airplanes out and that is to try and affect SLI. I don't even like this idea if we knew 100% it wouldn't affect SLI. It's dragging down pay on the other airplanes....

UAL has 26 744's, Cal has 48 wide bodies. Who's to say the 744 won't be replaced with the 748? If we set a precedent of paying the 777/744 the same with seating of 283/374 respectively, whats next? paying the 733 the same as the 753? Banding the 320/319, 735/733 is acceptable but to band totally different size aircraft is not a good precedent for future negotiations. Just because DAL does it doesn't make it right! In the long run this will benefit the WHOLE pilot group.

 

[bluefin]

November 1, 2010

Pilots of Council 11 and 34,

Many of you have contacted your council officers asking what the hold-up in negotiations is. You have expressed outrage at the company, as well as the ineffectiveness of our MEC in reaching agreement on a contract, and we have heard you loud and clear. Unfortunately, your anger is misdirected, and the purpose of this update is to finally communicate what the problem has been.

To put it simply, the problem is that the Continental MEC has for months insisted on structuring Section 3 of our contract (Compensation) in such a manner as to give them an advantage in the integration of the seniority list (ISL), and they have refused to allow negotiations to progress beyond this point until we capitulate and give them their way.

To illustrate exactly what the Continental MEC is attempting to do, let us first quickly review ALPA merger policy. There are three “cornerstones” of ALPA merger policy¾career expectations, longevity, and current position¾which must all be considered in arriving at an ISL.

The joint collective bargaining agreement process should be separate and distinct from the integrated seniority list process so that one does not advantage or disadvantage either party, this in the name of transparency and fairness to all parties. At this time, it is our strong and firm belief that while the United MEC has been taking the high road in moving toward trying to achieve an industry-leading JCBA, and is doing the same regarding ISL, the Continental MEC has taken action after action to attempt to stack the deck in their favor for the ISL.

The Continental MEC has dug their heels in and refused to allow any form of compensation proposal to be passed to the company unless it is their proposal. We assure you that the UAL MEC has made good-faith gestures to the CAL MEC to keep the process moving toward what will benefit, to the maximum extent, our collective pilot groups. Many of us are saddened and frustrated by the childish tack taken by the CAL MEC. Many of us have read the rhetoric being spewed by the CAL EWR chairman, Jayson Baron, in the Magenta Line, their council publication. Captain Baron describes himself as being the one man who is single-handedly taking on the United MEC in our attempts to oppress the pilots of Continental. While such blather is counterproductive and does nothing to move the issues forward, and in fact serves to foment the seeds of disharmony and antagonism between our two pilot groups (who by the way, are going to live together for a very long time), we categorically reject Captain Baron’s assertion. We believe that the United pilots (old and new) will be proud of the way they are being represented in this matter by the UAL MEC.

We are further compelled to ask why Captain Baron points the finger at the United MEC as being the root of the problem, but fails to publish in his Magenta Line his statement¾made during a joint session of the UAL and CAL MECs in September 2010¾that if the United pilots don’t give him what he wants, he will hold up negotiations for years, forcing the United pilots to work under our current draconian pay and working conditions until we capitulate to his demands. Where we come from, these words would be more of a management tack than those of a trusted unionist brother. Captain Baron’s threatening and offensive outburst led to the UAL MEC walking out of the meeting.

There are other complicating factors that include childish behavior by the Continental master chairman, but a significant reason that we do not yet have a contract can be attributed to the refusal of the Continental MEC to allow a compensation proposal to be passed until and unless the United MEC agrees to conditions that will advantage Continental pilots in an ISL. Your seniority is not for sale at any price, and we will not succumb to conditions grounded in amateurish scare tactics and rhetoric. We believe that the United pilots, including our new brothers and sisters at Continental, expect and deserve better than this type of behavior.

We are currently employing several strategies to help resolve this conundrum, and are prepared to utilize all resources under ALPA merger policy, including appealing to the president of the Association and the ALPA National Executive Council to help move the process forward, as provided for in ALPA merger policy. Even so, the Continental MEC and master chairman have publicly stated that they will refuse to abide by ALPA merger policy if the decision goes against them. With this kind of attitude we are not optimistic about the future as it relates to our two pilot groups’ chances for making United Airlines the premier, world-class airline we believe it can and should be.

Brothers and sisters, when the Continental MEC decides to come sit at the adult table, we will welcome them with open arms and put this silly nonsense behind us.

Fraternally,

Marco Salazar, Vice Chairman, Council 11
Mike Holman, Vice Chairman, Council 34



Dear United pilots,

With rhetoric like this, I hope you enjoy living under your current contract for years to come. Name calling and mindless blather only further management's fight.

If this really played out this way we are both screwed!! Did this conversation get recoreded or transcribed? if so play it or print! now its just he said/she said. Do it so the membership can determine who to believe!!

 

[nimtz]

UAL has 26 744's, Cal has 48 wide bodies. Who's to say the 744 won't be replaced with the 748? If we set a precedent of paying the 777/744 the same with seating of 283/374 respectively, whats next? paying the 733 the same as the 753? Banding the 320/319, 735/733 is acceptable but to band totally different size aircraft is not a good precedent for future negotiations. Just because DAL does it doesn't make it right! In the long run this will benefit the WHOLE pilot group.

I doubt it. The Whales are headed for the desert within 5 years. How much Atlantic flying does the 400 do these days? Open skies will cause the A350/787/777 to replace the whale with frequency. But I guess my retro and need for a real contract is far smaller then enhancing the earnings of a whale captain that is working past 60...

 

[EWR_FO]

If this really played out this way we are both screwed!! Did this conversation get recoreded or transcribed? if so play it or print! now its just he said/she said. Do it so the membership can determine who to believe!!

This is NOT the whole story, of course if he told the whole story it wouldn't play as well.

 

[EWR_FO]

If we set a precedent of paying the 777/744 the same with seating of 283/374 respectively, whats next?

The precedent was set when UAL signed the contract they are currently working under.

 

[captbert]

UAL has 26 744's, Cal has 48 wide bodies. Who's to say the 744 won't be replaced with the 748? If we set a precedent of paying the 777/744 the same with seating of 283/374 respectively, whats next? paying the 733 the same as the 753? Banding the 320/319, 735/733 is acceptable but to band totally different size aircraft is not a good precedent for future negotiations. Just because DAL does it doesn't make it right! In the long run this will benefit the WHOLE pilot group.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/delta.html

Here is a link that will shows how Delta/NWA banded the 777/744 together.

If UAL wants to drag this JCBA out forever that is fine with me. I am making more money flying the 767 at CAL than I would flying a UAL 744 now.

 

[chppr5]

I doubt it. The Whales are headed for the desert within 5 years. How much Atlantic flying does the 400 do these days? Open skies will cause the A350/787/777 to replace the whale with frequency. But I guess my retro and need for a real contract is far smaller then enhancing the earnings of a whale captain that is working past 60...

And what about the Pacific. UAL doesn't use the 744 much in Europe. Is your need for a contract bigger for the over 60 guys at CAL on the 777?

 

[chppr5]

The precedent was set when UAL signed the contract they are currently working under.

So with your logic the 70 seaters should be allowed at CAL?

 

[nimtz]

And what about the Pacific. UAL doesn't use the 744 much in Europe. Is your need for a contract bigger for the over 60 guys at CAL on the 777?

That's exactly what I was hinting at. Doubt Jeffery plans on 747-800 capacity in the years ahead as open skies comes. Besides that thing isn't exactly selling like hot cakes for some reason. As for the over 60 guys at CAL, can't wait to finish this stupid contract so they can stop using the 'I am waiting for buyout/retro before I retire' excuse...

 

[EWR_FO]

So with your logic the 70 seaters should be allowed at CAL?

Apples and oranges, the 747 issue will fail for the same reason it did for NW- it has NO merit to stand on.