Mesaba VS. Pinnacle

[Terry Hunter]

MAIR sues Mesaba and its creditors

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/724509.html

Now they're suing each other. What a mickey-fricking circus. Probably all just a ploy (if they are that smart) to have a stake in Mesaba if a shutdown occurs.

 

[NuGuy]

How do you figure? If any of these aircraft come to Mesaba or Pinnacle you can bet your *ss we won't be giving away seats. If NWA pilots want those seats they can put them on their certificate.

Uh, its called the NWA Pilot's Working Agreement, such as it is: To quote:

• If NWA purchases, leases, or finances these aircraft for
the [FONT=TimesNewRoman,BoldItalic]nonaffiliate [/FONT](non-SJet) feeder carrier, then 50
percent of all captain and first officer positions
associated with these financed aircraft go to laid-off
NWA pilots.

So, really, you have a choice, provide %50 of the seats, or no jets. Take your pick. And read closely, %50 of those seats are PIC positions. So you can bet YOUR a$$ that either you accept the pilots with the aircraft, or you can pass. They're not your seats to "give away", NWA pilots already own them.

Nu





​

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Uh, its called the NWA Pilot's Working Agreement, such as it is: To quote:

• If NWA purchases, leases, or finances these aircraft for
the [FONT=TimesNewRoman,BoldItalic]nonaffiliate [/FONT](non-SJet) feeder carrier, then 50
percent of all captain and first officer positions
associated with these financed aircraft go to laid-off
NWA pilots.

So, really, you have a choice, provide %50 of the seats, or no jets. Take your pick. And read closely, %50 of those seats are PIC positions. So you can bet YOUR a$$ that either you accept the pilots with the aircraft, or you can pass. They're not your seats to "give away", NWA pilots already own them.

Nu





​

Thats only if you exceed the avro replacement at mesaba. If mesaba gets the jets than the first 36 are not for NWA. If they go to another carrier we get the captain/FO slots.

 

[SEVEN]

Thats only if you exceed the avro replacement at mesaba. If mesaba gets the jets than the first 36 are not for NWA. If they go to another carrier we get the captain/FO slots.

YPF you are right again. As I have been saying for 8 months now. Mesaba will get 70 seaters to replace the Avro's. The only thing I was surprised by was the announcement of the CRJ900. That will be with the First Class/ Coach configuration with 76 seats. I predict ONCE a last minute TA is agreed upon (and unfortunately will most likely be passed by the pilot group) Mesaba will begin recalling pilots early next year to start ramping up for the airplanes coming online.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Okay, so NW can't fill a class for their own airline, who knows who would staff CompASS, and now we're not sure who has "rights" to the left and right seats of the "unamed Airlink" planes.

MAIR and Mesaba are suing each other.

This is really just getting more ludicrous by the day.

I hope all these lawsuits shed some light on all the cockroaches the are running the Redtails right now.

 

[ReverseSensing]

This is really just getting more ludicrous by the day.

"Alice was beginning to get very tired of sitting by her sister on the bank, and of having nothing to do: once or twice she had peeped into the book her sister was reading, but it had no pictures or conversations in it, `and what is the use of a book,' thought Alice `without pictures or conversation?'

So she was considering in her own mind (as well as she could, for the hot day made her feel very sleepy and stupid), whether the pleasure of making a daisy-chain would be worth the trouble of getting up and picking the daisies, when suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by her.

There was nothing so VERY remarkable in that; nor did Alice think it so VERY much out of the way to hear the Rabbit say to itself, `Oh dear! Oh dear! I shall be late!' (when she thought it over afterwards, it occurred to her that she ought to have wondered at this, but at the time it all seemed quite natural); but when the Rabbit actually TOOK A WATCH OUT OF ITS WAISTCOAT- POCKET, and looked at it, and then hurried on, Alice started to her feet, for it flashed across her mind that she had never before seen a rabbit with either a waistcoat-pocket, or a watch to take out of it, and burning with curiosity, she ran across the field after it, and fortunately was just in time to see it pop down a large rabbit-hole under the hedge.

In another moment down went Alice after it, never once considering how in the world she was to get out again."

Good luck to everyone at Mesaba.

 

[XJohXJ]

And pass the mushrooms, please...

 

[DoinTime]

Uh, its called the NWA Pilot's Working Agreement, such as it is: To quote:

• If NWA purchases, leases, or finances these aircraft for
the [FONT=TimesNewRoman,BoldItalic]nonaffiliate [/FONT](non-SJet) feeder carrier, then 50
percent of all captain and first officer positions
associated with these financed aircraft go to laid-off
NWA pilots.​

So, really, you have a choice, provide %50 of the seats, or no jets. Take your pick. And read closely, %50 of those seats are PIC positions. So you can bet YOUR a$$ that either you accept the pilots with the aircraft, or you can pass. They're not your seats to "give away", NWA pilots already own them.​

Nu

Just because it says it in your contract doesn't mean it will ever come true. You see we have this thing call a "contract" too and we in fact OWN every last pilot seat in our house. Giving away captain seats in our house is not negotiable. If that means you have shove that oversized crj up your *ss then sobeit.
​

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Remember what the Dormouse said.
Keep your head, Keep your head!

 

[NuGuy]

Just because it says it in your contract doesn't mean it will ever come true. You see we have this thing call a "contract" too and we in fact OWN every last pilot seat in our house. Giving away captain seats in our house is not negotiable. If that means you have shove that oversized crj up your *ss than sobeit.[/left]

If you guys want to pass on the 70 seaters, then there is no problemo. No seats, no jets. The shiney new jets come with strings attached, and if you don't want them fine...BUT consider this, those jets, no matter WHERE they go, still have scope limits attached to them, so for every 51-76 seater flying somewhere else, that is one less for your crew.


Nu

 

[YourPilotFriend]

In 2 years NWA has signed on for the purchase rights to over $20 billion dollars in aircraft; 68 787's + 132 CRJ's + 108 ERJ's.

 

[Terry Hunter]

Great Article!

Check it out...

In-Flight Peanuts

In free market free fall, pilots compete to stock shelves at Costco
Broadly speaking, there are two categories of people we don't want making minimum wage: Public servants who should not be so hungry they are susceptible to bribery (Dean Zimmerman, anyone? Brian Herron? Joe Biernat?) and those whose skills are essential to public safety. Building inspectors, for instance, shouldn't be too dimwitted to spot the brittle concrete in a sports arena or too amoral to look past it. So what about the wisdom of paying airline pilots less than Wal-Mart pays greeters?

Figuring out how pilots are paid makes deciphering how much each seat on an airplane can fetch seem like child's play. But according to the Air Line Pilots Association, if Mesaba gets the wage concessions it wants from its pilots, new hires could end up taking home $11,000-$13,000 a year. With wages like that, do you think the folks flying the planes are going to be the sharpest knives in the drawer?

Rest of article here...
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2006/10/in-flight_peanu.asp#more

 

[Northern Lights]

That was great - in a sad sort of way. I wish that we could get something like that published in the StarTrib, or Freep. Maybe Don Shelby could do one of his "Good Question" segments on the number 4.

 

[Schwanker]

If you guys want to pass on the 70 seaters, then there is no problemo. No seats, no jets. The shiney new jets come with strings attached, and if you don't want them fine...BUT consider this, those jets, no matter WHERE they go, still have scope limits attached to them, so for every 51-76 seater flying somewhere else, that is one less for your crew.


Nu

NuGuy,

You said it exactly right.

Mesaba can operate up to 36 76 seaters without giving up 1/2 Capt and 1/2 FO seats. Pinnacle would have to give up the seats to get any of these jets.

The choice is quite simple. Either Mesaba and/or Pinnacle give up super seniority rights to NWA pilots for these jets in the event of a flowback, or the jets simply go to Compass where mainline furloughees have rights to 100% of the seats in the event of future furloughs.

I believe Compass was created due to the current Airlinks not being remotely interested in giving up super seniority rights to furloughed NWA pilots in exchange for these jets. NWA mainline wouldn't give up the scope relief if there weren't jobs for current and future furloughs. Compass was the answer.

The decision remains the same. If Pinnacle / Mesaba ever want to see anything over 50 seats, they will need to give super seniority rights to furloughed NWA pilots (with the exception of possibly placing 36 aircraft at Mesaba). I would think NWA management would rather place these with Compass as well for 2 reasons. 1- it will lower the longevity rates on the equipment and 2- it will keep the 36 jet option open at Mesaba for future "pilot whipping" actions by management. If either Mesaba or Pinnacle agree to super seniority rights in the event of future mainline furloughs, the jets will come with it. The choice is theirs.

Before some of you go off the handle, I couldn't care less either way. I don't have any desire to flow back to either Mesaba or Pinnacle. Just providing some info.

 

[easydoesit]

Don't be so quick to say Mesaba can only get 36 more airplanes without giving up seats. Q400's are very efficient are not included in any NWA scope. I believe this will be the trump card...