Mesaba Mgmt "Pleas for Sacrifice"

[Whataboutbob]

As of right now the average seniority is probably up, but if and when they possibly grow to say 1000 pilots every pilot they have to hire at year one will bring the average seniority down. I think that most of the guys and gals furloughed in the first round have moved on, but the latest round of furloughs are probably going to wait it out and see what happens. Most F.O's can really only do a lateral move and whats the point of getting yourself wet jumping from one sinking log to another. Plus if your furloughed why would you resign your number unless you are asked to by another airline. So most of the resignations Im guessing are from the 4-10 year range

Im sure a lot of the resignations are coming from guys that can move to greener fields, maybe not the most senior of the group but those that have the quals to go to say Southwest, Fedex, Airtran. The 7-10 year range seniority which makes a difference on the bottom line. Even if senior F.O's are leaving management is cheering. Thats one less guy that will upgrade to the 6year payscale verses a newby that would upgrade on the 2year or 3rd year payscale. I obviously don't agree with this style of management and hope that we can reach a deal that is beneficial to all XJ drivers but Im just saying that this whole campaign has been designed to force guys out. Maybe after they reach there quotas they will just say OK, current book thanks for playing. Spanjers will finally put his reading glasses on and say "Oh ya I guess that is black ink we have been making money this whole time"

 

[n32jk]

Actually, I believe that with increased resignations the average seniority will increase. It's not the top guys who are leaving this company, it's the middle of the pack and semi-junior guys who are moving out. With fewer pilots, mainly super senior and low seniority guys the average will increase. I hope this back fires on our SLT. The only way Spanjiers will get the message is for our pilot group to deliver it to him.

-Spartacus

Take a look at history. NW shrunk 9e to about 230 pilots before growing them out to over 1200. What does that mean?? Other than about 200 or so pesky experienced pilots at PCL, the majority are in the 0-3 year range. That equals pretty darn low pay even with a good regional contract. I can't imagine that this situation is much different from 1998 at Express Airlines I, Inc. (now PCL)

Same crap
different day....
different property....

 

[Hulk Hogan]

How long was 9E beat down before growth started again? Was it 97 with crj's in 00? I wonder what the plan is for planes. 70+ seat jets/props or both? Plus how does Compass play into the game now?

 

[CubanSmoker]

Maybe after they reach there quotas they will just say OK, current book thanks for playing.

Yeah, but the whole pilot group is so pissed off that even if Spanky offered current book, we'd probably still strike and shut the place down.

 

[Monster Buck]

Take a look at history. NW shrunk 9e to about 230 pilots before growing them out to over 1200. I can't imagine that this situation is much different from 1998 at Express Airlines I, Inc. (now PCL)

...

Express didn't start out with 1000 pilots when the shrinking by NWA started.
So shrinking to 200 pilots at express doesn't equel the same number at Xj.
But I do agree that the idea by nwa is the same.

 

[n32jk]

Express didn't start out with 1000 pilots when the shrinking by NWA started.
So shrinking to 200 pilots at express doesn't equel the same number at Xj.
But I do agree that the idea by nwa is the same.

I believe it had been at around 400 though......

 

[redflyer65]

I just heard a rumor today that Mesaba management is going to impose their 19% paycuts within a ten day time frame. Is there any truth to that?

If that were true, I see it as management committing suicide, plane and simple.

 

[airmasn]

[.....

 

[Mesabi Miner]

I just heard a rumor today that Mesaba management is going to impose their 19% paycuts within a ten day time frame. Is there any truth to that?

I think a little judge that just landed on my shoulder may not allow that to happen...

MM

 

[Whataboutbob]

I wonder what managements next move will be? Im guessing they will use this as a chance to save face and ask the union to talk. Soon after meeting they will work toward a middle ground and they will continue to say they need 19.4% but they are willing to give a little since they really need to secure that financing. Soon a T.A will be reached. And NWA will give the green light to XJ management since they know that after they call back all the furloughed flight attendants under the imposed terms and only a quarter come back they are going to reach a T.A with that union. Everything will finally be in place and a/c orders will be announced. Just one mans perspective, you have to remember I only majored in basket weaving with a minor in raquetball.

 

[redflyer65]

Really glad a judge put the brakes on this sham of a bankruptcy. The SLT should be brought up on fraud charges along with Foley et al. There is no morality with these jokers. Keep on fighting the good fight.

 

[DoinTime]

Express didn't start out with 1000 pilots when the shrinking by NWA started.
So shrinking to 200 pilots at express doesn't equel the same number at Xj.
But I do agree that the idea by nwa is the same.

Express I & II Airlines pilot ranks were cut about in half when NWA decided to dismantle the Express II operation and hand it over to Mesaba. The retirement of several more Saabs and all the Jetstreams amplified the shrinkage from the core MEM operation.

Mesaba now finds themselves in the position of being nearly half of their peak size. A strange coincidence? I don't think so.

The critical difference between Express Airlines circa 1998 and modern day Mesaba is that Express pilots were enjoying the fattest Legacy carrier hiring boom ever. Throughout the halving of Express Airlines nobody was ever furloughed and very few hearts were broken.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Is that some fraying I see in the cords of this traveshamockruptcy?

Heres your ticket pack your bag: time for jumpin overboard
The transportation is here
Close enough but not too far, maybe you know where you are
Fightin fire with fire

All wet
Hey you might need a raincoat
Shakedown
Dreams walking in broad daylight
Three hun-dred six-ty five de-grees
Burning down the house

 

[xjlifer]

He Crunk,

Not a bad pic there of Jinglepants...but as I recall he was more of a pencil neck geek.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

He went on an eating binge after his last bonus.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Speaking of bonuses, Wild Bill's bonus amounts to 40% of his base pay. (He told us this the other day - and he compares this to our per-diem) Exactly how many times a year are they awarded this?

MM

 

[Whataboutbob]

Is the employee profit sharing program they want to sign us up for going to be similiar to B.P's bonus plan?

 

[YourPilotFriend]

They need to liquidate mesaba, compass will buy it then MAIR can buy compass next year. That way you have a trained staff and everyone is back to first year pay.

 

[xjlifer]

They need to liquidate mesaba, compass will buy it then MAIR can buy compass next year. That way you have a trained staff and everyone is back to first year pay.

The office drone speaks.

 

[saabservant]

I believe that if not for the letter signed by alpa and mair(the holdings company) this would have happened already.
They cannot replace us.
And how quick can compass get up and running, under a contract which has no substantial savings over the current mesaba alpa cba?

 

[Whataboutbob]

Compass will happen but its a grey area. I imagine it will grow to its minimum size agreed upon with NWA pilots. Some NWA furloughs will show up and fly there until they are called back otherwise they will hire off the street. There A/C order will be announced before XJ or 9E find out what they are getting. It will be another chance to try to get guys to run over to Compass and start at year one. Eventually in the future though I bet MAIR buys compass and the guys that went to Compass from XJ will wish they would have stayed at XJ. (this is all speculation)

 

[fieldinsight]

Speaking of bonuses, Wild Bill's bonus amounts to 40% of his base pay. (He told us this the other day - and he compares this to our per-diem) Exactly how many times a year are they awarded this?

MM

Once a year, usually around June/July (its when SK buys a new white shirt... lol)

Supv level is eligible for up to 10%
Manager level for up to 20%
Director level up to 30%
VP and up eligible for up to 40%

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

They need to liquidate mesaba, compass will buy it then MAIR can buy compass next year. That way you have a trained staff and everyone is back to first year pay.

Uh, what about the shareholders?

 

[kmox29]

They need to liquidate mesaba, compass will buy it then MAIR can buy compass next year. That way you have a trained staff and everyone is back to first year pay.

And just think boys and girls...none of that would be possible without your good friends at NWA!

 

[vtchaz]

Not anymore...

I just heard a rumor today that Mesaba management is going to impose their 19% paycuts within a ten day time frame. Is there any truth to that?

If that were true, I see it as management committing suicide, plane and simple.

Mesaba Can't Reject Labor Pacts Under Federal Crt Ruling
[FONT=times new roman,times,serif][FONT=times new roman,times,serif]
DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
September 14, 2006 2:02 p.m.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
A bankruptcy court ruling that had enabled Mesaba Airlines to reject its labor contracts under bankruptcy law was overturned Wednesday by a federal court in Minneapolis, according to a labor union representing flight attendants.
The Association of Flight Attendants said Mesaba, the operating unit of Mair Holding Inc., (MAIR) had contemplated a 19.4% wage and benefit cut.
Mesaba said earlier this week, prior to the court ruling, that it will soon have to choose between imposing pay cuts or shutting down, unless its unions agree to concessions.
-John Seward; 201-938-5400; [email protected]

 

[eaglefly]

Uh, what about the shareholders?

Actually, the employees need to liquidate management.

Then, and ONLY then will NWA have a chance.

The management clowns have REPEATEDLY proven themselves not only ethically bankrupt, but totally incompetent.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

They need to liquidate mesaba, compass will buy it then MAIR can buy compass next year. That way you have a trained staff and everyone is back to first year pay.

................ Keep swinging son, eventually you'll hit something.

 

[DoinTime]

They need to liquidate mesaba, compass will buy it then MAIR can buy compass next year. That way you have a trained staff and everyone is back to first year pay.

If you had a clue you'd be dangerous.

 

[n32jk]

Mesaba Can't Reject Labor Pacts Under Federal Crt Ruling
[FONT=times new roman,times,serif][FONT=times new roman,times,serif]
DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
September 14, 2006 2:02 p.m.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
A bankruptcy court ruling that had enabled Mesaba Airlines to reject its labor contracts under bankruptcy law was overturned Wednesday by a federal court in Minneapolis, according to a labor union representing flight attendants.
The Association of Flight Attendants said Mesaba, the operating unit of Mair Holding Inc., (MAIR) had contemplated a 19.4% wage and benefit cut.
Mesaba said earlier this week, prior to the court ruling, that it will soon have to choose between imposing pay cuts or shutting down, unless its unions agree to concessions.
-John Seward; 201-938-5400; [email protected]

This may be the only positive thing I have heard in the news lately. This is a victory for the Mesaba pilots and I hope this deflates the MAIR management's belief that there are no laws or rules to follow against thier liking. This will also turn up the heat for the executives negotiating at PCL.

There may possibly be a sour outcome for the Mesaba pilots. Mair may be wanting to liquidate and start a new operation. But if I were a betting man, I would think the tables are turning. It is a great victory for the industry as a whole. I hope it turns out to be a good things for the Mesaba pilots as well.

My favorite reading during negotiations follows........

Pardon me, thou bleeding piece of earth
​

That I am meek and gentle with these butchers!Thou art the ruins of the noblest manThat ever lived in the tide of times.Woe to the hand that shed this costly blood!Over thy wounds now do I prophesy,--- Which, like dumb mouths, do ope their ruby lips,To beg the voice and utterance of my tongue ---A curse shall light upon the limbs of men;Domestic fury and fierce civil strifeShall cumber all the parts of Italy;Blood and destruction shall be so in useAnd dreadful objects so familiarThat mothers shall but smile when they beholdTheir infants quarter'd with the hands of war;All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,With Ate by his side come hot from hell,Shall in these confines with a monarch's voiceCry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;That this foul deed shall smell above the earthWith carrion men, groaning for burial. -- William Shakespeare