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Mesaba MEC Conference Call Highlights

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SEVEN

SEVEN

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
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-Management wishes to put all jet flying on 9E certificate and all prop flying on XJ certificate, Colgan will no longer exist

-All 3 pilot groups want single seniority list

-MEC expects transition to be 2 years (based on NW DL merger)

-Contract is status quo for the transition time

-If XJ planes are moved around, XJ pilots will go with them per section 1

-DL and XJ to discuss flowthrough next week, remains unchanged for now

-Crappy 9E travel benefits start 2011
 
but so long as their scope gives them the right to those planes (which the post above indicates) they have no risk of losing anything - which is the typical use of the wipsaw. (i.e. agree to this or lose your flying - i.e. Trans States). As soon as you eliminate the ability to take away their flying they are better served on a separate certificate. It also forces Pinnacle to put all of the aircraft at one base to justify the maintenance expenses which prevents everyone from getting shuffled all over the place.
 
Raoul Duke said:
but so long as their scope gives them the right to those planes (which the post above indicates) they have no risk of losing anything - which is the typical use of the wipsaw. (i.e. agree to this or lose your flying - i.e. Trans States). As soon as you eliminate the ability to take away their flying they are better served on a separate certificate. It also forces Pinnacle to put all of the aircraft at one base to justify the maintenance expenses which prevents everyone from getting shuffled all over the place.
Click to expand...

That's short sighted. In a couple years when the CRJ9000XWB-400 or whatever new shiny jet is on order management will ask "who wants to fly these? We need a low rate to be competitive" and then each seniority list would face the moral hazard of underbidding to stay employed and/or upgrade.
 
Ditto to above. Remember Freedom A at Mesa? We need one list with a fair integration. Delta/NWA did it, so can we. Just don't let it be like US Airways / AWA.
 
Smart move! Definitely single carrier status or nothing! Hopefully the sell has the same mindset!
 
Our MEC and 9E is already on board with the single list like Republic did and will be pushing for it. The question is, will management want it?
 
Please let's not forget there are THREE pilot groups here!!!! We need to make doubly sure that Colgan pilots are well represented in these life/career changing decisions. I know our MEC understands this but everyone in the pilot groups need to understand this to.
 
xjgearbtch said:
Please let's not forget there are THREE pilot groups here!!!! We need to make doubly sure that Colgan pilots are well represented in these life/career changing decisions. I know our MEC understands this but everyone in the pilot groups need to understand this to.
Click to expand...

No one's forgetting that. I believe it will be one list with Relative Seniority Integration.....not Date of Hire. There is still a long road ahead for all 3 groups though.
 
Raoul Duke said:
why would the Mesaba pilots want to be on a single list - they would be much better off keeping separate lists.
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Its simple-Pinnacle holdings has said that all the jets (higher pay) will be at Pinnacle and all the Props will be at Mesaba. That being said it is obvious that is one reason why MEsaba would want to have one list. Mesabas contract language says that the pilots will go with the aircraft.

I would think since we are all ALPA carriers it would be the date of hire intergration. But that being said many here at Mesaba understand that the colgan pilot group is very junior and would end up at the bottom of the new company-this issue needs to be negotiated since that would be wrong. If I were a colgan pilot I would not want Date of hire. The major issue here is what Pinnacle Holdings will want and fight for.

I would think we as one future pilot group we would need work together on this one. Get all the best that each pilot group has to offer and come to some sort of agreement on one seniority list.
 
The sooner we're on one list the better, hopefully this will go smoothly, quickly and fairly.
 
Someone posted the XJ scope on another site, and while it does say the pilots go with the aircraft, it doesn't say they go in their current positions. It says the company acquiring the aircraft must "offer employment" to the XJ guys. A SLI would let most (if not all) the XJ guys keep their seats. I can guaran-damn-tee you if 9E management reads that scope and twists it like they did our scope when they bought Colgan, the "offer of employment" will be a first year FO slot even for the most senior XJ -900 CA.
 
i fly boxes said:
then me must fight to not allow that to happen to them.
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We ALL must fight to prevent any such practices by management.

We shall all hang together, or we shall surely all hang seperately. ~Ben Franklin
 
You, us and them....we well continue to be screwed by management. How we will all be screwed remains to be seen. Phil is probably sitting there right now, thinking, how can best screw them over.
 
skyguy40 said:
You, us and them....we well continue to be screwed by management. How we will all be screwed remains to be seen. Phil is probably sitting there right now, thinking, how can best screw them over.
Click to expand...


What He Said.....

It might sting a little, but considering all options, it could be much worse... and excruciating if we bicker amongst ourselves. Let's minimize the "sting" collectively or all suffer the "rash" of consequences....

V1
 
Mesaba MEC Conference call Highlights

Some times, (as your getting screwed by management) its better to just go to that happy place in your mind until its over. I've being hoping for it to hurray up and be over for a long time. Although it's getting harder to find that happy place now days.

Just something to think about as you enter the Pinnacle world soon.
 
Last edited:
SEVEN said:
-Management wishes to put all jet flying on 9E certificate and all prop flying on XJ certificate, Colgan will no longer exist
-All 3 pilot groups want single seniority list
Click to expand...

What is the BIG picture here?
Not to rattle anyone, but daddy DAL kicks the two wholly owned NWA to the curbs. Not that anyone was really surprised, to whom them were kicked to is! Regardless, you have Daddy DAL that has a bunch of regional flying, way too many 50 seaters, and not interested in props planning what?

9E inherits a bunch of -900's and more -200's (that they don't need), all while it is not any secret that DAL wants to trim the 50 seat flying.

XJ ends up with 9L's prop fleet.

9L is an open certificate for who or what?

So the question is, what is the big plan here? There were rumors that DAL wanted to build up 9E. The quickest way to a bunch of -900's is via XJ, okay I sort of see the reasoning behind giving XJ to 9E. I don't see the excess -200's though.

XJ will manage just the prop's and 9L becomes a memory? granted 9E got 9L for next to nothing.

I can see the big boys snickering over the respective pilot groups bickering over a SLI why they put into works what this is really all about. This is too simple to be JUST the merging of regional feeders into one now larger DAL feeder and a prop feeder. It is usually divide and conquer not the other way around. Unless you are RAH and assimilate everything and everyone :D

I guess we will see in the next year (if it takes that long) to see what the master plan is. I just don't get tossing a bunch of jets to 9E, especially with the chance that pilot group may get released one day. PNCL Corp mgmt does not hand the union anything, I wonder what the price will be for SLI.
 

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