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Mesaba has [blank]... Does Pinnacle and Colgan?

Butters

Keepin' it real...
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Aug 7, 2005
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A few of us were talking in the crewroom today and I realized we know a lot about Pinnacle and Colgan but there is quite a bit we don't know. Specifically what kind of training, safety, and other programs each other has.

So, I thought I'd make a list of what Mesaba has and I'd appreciate it if some Pinnacle and Colgan pilots could comment on what you have. This will help us get an idea of what each other does. Please add to the list if there is anything I missed.

Thanks!

Mesaba has:

ASAP - Yes
FOQA - Yes (in development; LOA is signed)
PBS - Yes
LOSA - No (we have a poor man's version called "FOSA")
AQP - Yes (in development; trials underway)
SMS - No
Seniority list check airmen/APDs - Yes
Seniority list sim instructors - Yes (no contract training at all)
Seniority list ground instructors - Some (most are not but they do a good job)
Simulator location - Currently all in our training base of MSP
 

LearLove

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yahoo article today stated Joe Williams said Pinnacle will drop the Colgan name and be 2 airlines. Pinnacle w/ jets and Mesaba with Props.
 

kellwolf

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5000
Mesaba has:

ASAP - Yes
FOQA - Yes (in development; LOA is signed)
PBS - Yes
LOSA - No (we have a poor man's version called "FOSA")
AQP - Yes (in development; trials underway)
SMS - No
Seniority list check airmen/APDs - Yes
Seniority list sim instructors - Yes (no contract training at all)
Seniority list ground instructors - Some (most are not but they do a good job)
Simulator location - Currently all in our training base of MSP


ASAP - Yes
FOQA - Yes
PBS - Yes (but this is only as good as your contract language, which we don't have any in our current agreement)
LOSA - Not sure
AQP - No. That would take away from the threatening nature of our training program. FOs did just recently start a 6 month rotation for sim training instead of 12, though
SMS - I don't even know what this is, so probably not
Seniority list check airmen/ADP - Yes
Seniority list sim instructors - Only the check airmen. We have non-seniority list sim instructors as well
Seniority list ground instructors - Re-current (which is the only thing we'd need a ground instructor for) was being taught by a seniority list guy the past couple of years, however he's now in management. When we were hiring like gang busters, we also had non-seniority list ground instructors. They only bought guys off if they didn't have anyone else to teach.
Sim location - -200 sims are in MEM. I believe -900 training is in STL with the occasional YUL.
 

higney85

Property of Scheduling
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9E has LOSA. It caused us to not be allowed to read USA Today while flying. I'm sure it did more but that was the "immediate" safety change.
 

Flyer1015

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Moola
SMS - I don't even know what this is, so probably not

Yes, we have plenty of text-ers (SMS) at Pinnacle. Just make sure to look up once in a while when you taxi. Or when you approach MSP.
 

Flyer1015

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Moola
9E has LOSA. It caused us to not be allowed to read USA Today while flying. I'm sure it did more but that was the "immediate" safety change.
Didn't that change come when some idiot pulled a USA Today with a fed in the jumpseat? Either a fed or a Pinnacle APD.
 

higney85

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Didn't that change come when some idiot pulled a USA Today with a fed in the jumpseat? Either a fed or a Pinnacle APD.

Whichever... You still can't fix stupid. As soon as you are told "this is non-jeopardy" the senses should heighten. Evidently being sick is a non-jeopardy event, yet could lead up to and including termination.
 

Kaman

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Colgan has:

ASAP - Yes
FOQA - Yes (in development; LOA is signed)
PBS - No (We were told it was "funded", but hasn't been implemented yet.)
LOSA - Yes, completed but the data hasn't been released yet.
AQP - No
SMS - No, but it is mentioned in the strategic plan for creating a just culture here at 9L
Seniority list check airmen/APDs - Yes
Seniority list sim instructors - Yes, but also non-seniority as well.
Seniority list ground instructors - Yes, but also non-seniority as well.
Simulator location - SAAB STL and IAH, Q-400 STL
Recurrent training is held at IAH, IAD, and EWR...Pay for your accomodations and typically scheduled during your days off with no compensation.
 

WMUSIGPI

The $100,000,000 Question
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Colgan has:

ASAP - Yes
FOQA - Yes (in development; LOA is signed)
PBS - No (We were told it was "funded", but hasn't been implemented yet.)
LOSA - Yes, completed but the data hasn't been released yet.
AQP - No
SMS - No, but it is mentioned in the strategic plan for creating a just culture here at 9L
Seniority list check airmen/APDs - Yes
Seniority list sim instructors - Yes, but also non-seniority as well.
Seniority list ground instructors - Yes, but also non-seniority as well.
Simulator location - SAAB STL and IAH, Q-400 STL
Recurrent training is held at IAH, IAD, and EWR...Pay for your accomodations and typically scheduled during your days off with no compensation.[/QUOTE]

Are you F-ing kidding me? Why the hell does anyone show up for that crap?
 

Raskal

big member, little pay
Joined
Aug 22, 2002
Posts
926
Total Time
*sigh*
A few of us were talking in the crewroom today and I realized we know a lot about Pinnacle and Colgan but there is quite a bit we don't know. Specifically what kind of training, safety, and other programs each other has.

So, I thought I'd make a list of what Mesaba has and I'd appreciate it if some Pinnacle and Colgan pilots could comment on what you have. This will help us get an idea of what each other does. Please add to the list if there is anything I missed.

Thanks!

Mesaba has:

ASAP - Yes
FOQA - Yes (in development; LOA is signed)
PBS - Yes
LOSA - No (we have a poor man's version called "FOSA")
AQP - Yes (in development; trials underway)
SMS - No
Seniority list check airmen/APDs - Yes
Seniority list sim instructors - Yes (no contract training at all)
Seniority list ground instructors - Some (most are not but they do a good job)
Simulator location - Currently all in our training base of MSP

This is only true when we are not actually training, I had some training in STL by contract instructors in 07. The only reason we don't use them right now is because we have a light training load, if that changed we would go right back to contract.
 

Terry Hunter

Silence!
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Nov 22, 2004
Posts
297
Total Time
<0>
Colgan has:

ASAP - Yes
FOQA - Yes (in development; LOA is signed)
PBS - No (We were told it was "funded", but hasn't been implemented yet.)
LOSA - Yes, completed but the data hasn't been released yet.
AQP - No
SMS - No, but it is mentioned in the strategic plan for creating a just culture here at 9L
Seniority list check airmen/APDs - Yes
Seniority list sim instructors - Yes, but also non-seniority as well.
Seniority list ground instructors - Yes, but also non-seniority as well.
Simulator location - SAAB STL and IAH, Q-400 STL
Recurrent training is held at IAH, IAD, and EWR...Pay for your accomodations and typically scheduled during your days off with no compensation.[/QUOTE]

Are you F-ing kidding me? Why the hell does anyone show up for that crap?

I noticed that too.... That will be no more.
 

xjgearbtch

Living the dream
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Posts
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Yes, we have plenty of text-ers (SMS) at Pinnacle. Just make sure to look up once in a while when you taxi. Or when you approach MSP.

SMS is a ICAO Standard that all US Airlines will soon be held to. 9E is already Level 2 which is pretty good and ahead of the game. Mesaba hasn't begun the procedure.
 

vtchaz

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Posts
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Colgan has:

ASAP - Yes
FOQA - Yes (in development; LOA is signed)
PBS - No (We were told it was "funded", but hasn't been implemented yet.)
LOSA - Yes, completed but the data hasn't been released yet.
AQP - No
SMS - No, but it is mentioned in the strategic plan for creating a just culture here at 9L
Seniority list check airmen/APDs - Yes
Seniority list sim instructors - Yes, but also non-seniority as well.
Seniority list ground instructors - Yes, but also non-seniority as well.

Simulator location - SAAB STL and IAH, Q-400 STL
Recurrent training is held at IAH, IAD, and EWR...Pay for your accomodations and typically scheduled during your days off with no compensation.


PBS is something CJC ALPA has explored while prepping for our negotiations and have commented they don't think it would work well for the pilots. At least not as we are currently structured. In the future, with structural and base changes, it might be something to look at.

After a long development process our AQP was just approved and we will begin utilizing it by the end of August. SIM still every 6 months for everyone (yes FOs too), but one will be a non-jeopardy Training Event (PT) and one will be a regular PC.

SMS is actually being utilized by the Safety Department already. To what extent, who knows.

We utilize both seniority list and contract SIM instructors and ground instructors. Right now mainly on the Q400 (Bombardier entitlement training from aircraft orders) but only during heavy training pushes. I know CJC ALPA has been holding the line on this, though. The company does want the ability to do checking with contractors as well. Something that is a BAD idea and the pilot group will never agree to.
 

higney85

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Posts
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What is LOSA?

Line Operations Safety Audit is I believe what the acronym stands for... basically folks in the jumpseat on revenue flights simply evaluating areas that can be improved. All pilots are told to do things as if he/she wasn't there. The company found some things they wanted to change in the culture (such as reading the paper and changing the language on electronics in the cockpit). The data is much like FOQA in that it is de-identified and used to find changes to make that help the safety aspect as a whole.
 

say again

I love her ARSE!!!!
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Line Operations Safety Audit is I believe what the acronym stands for... basically folks in the jumpseat on revenue flights simply evaluating areas that can be improved. All pilots are told to do things as if he/she wasn't there. The company found some things they wanted to change in the culture (such as reading the paper and changing the language on electronics in the cockpit). The data is much like FOQA in that it is de-identified and used to find changes to make that help the safety aspect as a whole.


Thanks for the info. :beer:
 

1.3XVso

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I don't foking get it. 9E performance showing 80 percent. This just blows my mind....
 

suupah

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Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Posts
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Colgan has:

ASAP - Yes
FOQA - Yes (in development; LOA is signed)
PBS - No (We were told it was "funded", but hasn't been implemented yet.)
LOSA - Yes, completed but the data hasn't been released yet.
AQP - No
SMS - No, but it is mentioned in the strategic plan for creating a just culture here at 9L
Seniority list check airmen/APDs - Yes
Seniority list sim instructors - Yes, but also non-seniority as well.
Seniority list ground instructors - Yes, but also non-seniority as well.
Simulator location - SAAB STL and IAH, Q-400 STL
Recurrent training is held at IAH, IAD, and EWR...Pay for your accomodations and typically scheduled during your days off with no compensation.[/QUOTE]

Are you F-ing kidding me? Why the hell does anyone show up for that crap?

because you'll be fired if you don't
 

kellwolf

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Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Posts
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Line Operations Safety Audit is I believe what the acronym stands for... basically folks in the jumpseat on revenue flights simply evaluating areas that can be improved. All pilots are told to do things as if he/she wasn't there. The company found some things they wanted to change in the culture (such as reading the paper and changing the language on electronics in the cockpit). The data is much like FOQA in that it is de-identified and used to find changes to make that help the safety aspect as a whole.


Do we still have that, or is that just something that was done when the Sabitini safety audit was going on? I haven't seen or heard of anyone riding the jumpseat to observe things from a safety standpoint since that was over. Nice job jumping right on the recommendations from the firm, too, management. Have we even implemented ANY of the stuff they suggested?
 
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