mesaba flow up and down

[xjgearbtch]

2264J why do you care? Take your attitude elsewhere. We'll make it work, your potshots from the cheapseats do nothing productive. But I bet you feel so good expressing your emotions... right.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Can you explain how these two sentences aren't contradictory?

Yes...but thankfully, I don't have too. Everybody but you understands them.

Whether those CL-65-900s go to Mesaba or not depends on Mesaba taking the flow through - yes?

No. As I've posted...no. NO, nein, nyet, non, no, no, no, no.

Got it?

If Mesaba rejects the flow thru...the flow thru dies. At that point, the Northwest MEC must decide whether or not the remaining elements of the deal are "go" or "no go".

ALPA is therefore whipsawing Mesaba pilots with airframes to get furlough protection for the mainliners.

Nice try! The flow thru was negotiated over a year ago as part of the Compass arrangement. If your "furlough protection" motive was accurate, then it was done 14-months ago...and not required as part of this Mesaba deal.

The point is that those Eagle pilots at Northwest and Comair aren't at American and they're not waiting to flow to American.

Wait! You're telling me Eagle pilots had a choice? They were given options?

The horror!

How cruel of ALPA to be a party to an agreement that provided affiliated pilots a potential career pipeline!

Back in the day when Eagle and Continental Express both had flow through agreements, their attrition rates were greater than that of Comair. If flow through is the career advancement vehicle you want us to believe it is, how do you account for that?

"the career advancement vehicle"? Who said that? It's an option. A choice. An opportunity.

If you'll guarantee the future of the industry for the next several years and I'll give a value for it. Since you can't do that, I think it was a good idea for the Northwest MEC to insist on the option for Mesaba pilots.

From my understanding of the language, Mesaba pilots will not be kidnapped and pressed into service at the mainline as part of the flow thru. They'll actually have the option to decline and seek employment at Comair.

Turning junior pilots at another airline into your furlough fodder by witholding flying if they don't acquiesce has no place in a union. In other words, when mainline MECs conspire with management and start deriving a perceived benefit from alter egos, it's over - the union is mortally wounded.

Spare me! Your fundamental premise is wrong, hence your entire thesis.

Nobody is our "furlough fodder". Rejection of the flow thru doesn't preclude new jets at Mesaba. You're clueless.

All three of those statements are accurate and correct.

 

[FSIGRAD]

I know of a number of flow downs, but has a pilot ever flown up in the history of aviation?

 

[jetflier]

From what I understand there has been about one flowup in history that ever worked.

Do the current NWA furloughs go to XJ and Compass, or just Compass?

Pan/Pan Express flow through worked. 3 per month would flow up to mainline while Pan Am was hiring.
This was from Pan Am aquiring Ransome Airlines and initially was going to fly 727 on the Pan Am Shuttle.
Flight Engineers union FEIA rejected this which would have prevented their movement up into a pilots seat.
The Pan Am MEC agreed to then allow a flow through agreement with Ransome pilots. Pan Am had not hired for 20 years, and the Ransome, now Pan Am Express pilots, flowed over to Pan Am with the seniority of 20 years.
Some Ransome pilots went into the right seat of the 747. I personally know of one guy so young (26)to be typed in the 747 that the FA's said that they felt they had a need to nurse him!

The flow through agreement can work, if its done correctly, I'm not sure that the NWA MEC has done that, we'll see...

 

[PCL_128]

I know of a number of flow downs, but has a pilot ever flown up in the history of aviation?

Plenty of pilots flowed up to American and Continental from Eagle and CoEx.

 

[N2264J]

Yes...but thankfully, I don't have too. Everybody but you understands them.

Great - so can anybody here explain to me why the following two sentences are not contradictory?

1) How the Mesaba MEC rules on the issue of the flow thru has no impact on the status of the -900's. 2) The status of those jets depends on how the Northwest MEC would respond to a "veto" by the Mesaba MEC.

If Mesaba rejects the flow thru...the flow thru dies. At that point, the Northwest MEC must decide whether or not the remaining elements of the deal are "go" or "no go".

And the remaining elements of the deal include the placement of 900s - right?

 

[Occam's Razor]

Ok...now I think you're doing it on purpose.

 

[avrorj-85]

yawn...

Hey all you RJDC guys... why don't you start a new thread titled - "how to beat a dead horse". I am so sick of all your rhetoric. It seems like every other XJ thread gets hijacked by you guys. GET A LIFE!!!!

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Hey all you RJDC guys... why don't you start a new thread titled - "how to beat a dead horse". I am so sick of all your rhetoric. It seems like every other XJ thread gets hijacked by you guys. GET A LIFE!!!!

And watch out for slick floors! Piso Mojado!

I think a lot more people would consider flow- (trickle-?) through if we could at least get a weentsy bit of longevity. Maybe simply to avoid first-year pay.

One of my concerns is that Mesaba pilots will patiently wait their turns at flow-through while Pinnacle will fill the other seats of the class. Sadly, I might get on with Northwest more quickly if I quit Mesaba, get hired by Pinnacle, and then go to NWA. Not to say 9E guys shouldn't fill the other seats, but just that they are the likeliest candidates.

Someone might say, yeah, but then you won't have flow-back. I wouldn't? What about Compass? Aren't they basically an accumulator for mainline? Oops, too much pressure in the mainline actuator, shoot 'em back down to the Compass accumulator.

I thought part of the reason we didn't do flow about ten years ago was that we were more likely to get hired without a flow than with. In 2001, Mesaba was losing 20 a month at least to NWA.

Again, I'm no expert . . .

 

[PCL_128]

Great - so can anybody here explain to me why the following two sentences are not contradictory?

You must really be dense. The statements aren't contradictory in the slightest.

1. The MSA MEC can do whatever they want with this. Turn it down, accept it, ask the NWA MEC to modify it, etc... There's nothing requiring the MSA MEC to take this deal.

2. Without a flowthrough, the -900s may or may not come to MSA. It could go either way. The current scope clause has to be modified in some way to allow MSA to have these jets. If the MSA MEC doesn't take the first solution (the flowthrough), then the NWA MEC will have to come up with something else. There's nothing saying that the MSA pilots will lose the -900s if they reject the flowthrough deal.


Is that easy enough for your RJDC kool-aid soaked brain to comprehend?