mesaba flow up and down

[WMUSIGPI]

There are skippy mcipods at every airline... even the majors... well maybe they aren't so skippy by that point but they are sporting their ipods.

 

[XJ-spartacus]

Let me explain how a flow thru can be restrictive. First, you aren't allowed to bypass the flow. So even if your a rock star in time and experience, the most senior guy goes first. That's ok because it's a seniority based system, but what about the other folks less qualified outside of the flow? Now you have a newhire class that will accept only a small % of the class from the flow and the remaining slots from other sources. Now you're no longer able to get hired in front of those "other" pilots, who might be less qualified, simply because you are bound by the flow thru. So in essence, it isn't the qualifications that will get the pinnacle pilot hired in front of the XJ pilot, it's a hiring quota issue. It all depends how bad you want to fly for NWA and how many years you are willing to wait.

-Spartacus

 

[~~~^~~~]

Glad to hear rumors of MECs working together for mutual benefit.

One List would be a whole lot better than a bi-directional flow through. Any news on if pass benefit changes, loss of longevity and probationary pay can be negotiated away?

NorthWest would not be many people's first choice for a mainline carrier, especially if they had a halfway bearable job at a small jet carrier. NorthWest may actually need some help in the future -or even right now....

By Ted Reed
TheStreet.com Staff Reporter
6/25/2007 3:18 PM EDT

Northwest (NWA - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr) has cancelled more than 500 flights over the past four days, apparently because of crew shortages.

The cancellations could be a precursor to problems that will plague travelers throughout the summer if airline pilots -- frustrated by reduced compensation and increased work hours -- are unwilling or unable to volunteer to fly beyond their normal scheduled hours.

According to FlightStats.com, Northwest called off 453 flights from Friday through Sunday. More than 125 additional flights were taken off the schedule by midday Monday. Minnesota-based Northwest operates about 1,400 daily departures.

"This staffing problem is something we have pointed out for a long time," said Wade Blaufuss, spokesman for the Northwest chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association. "The company wants to operate the airline at the red line. It looks great on paper, but intangibles like fatigue and morale and stress don't show up on a balance sheet."

A Northwest spokesman declined to immediately comment. The carrier is just weeks removed from its emergence from bankruptcy protection.

Federal regulations limit pilots to flying 1,000 hours a year and 100 hours a month. Normally, airlines fly heavier schedules in the summer, when travel surges, and rely at times on volunteers to enable them to operate a full schedule.

"It looks like Northwest got the short straw," said Meara McLaughlin, spokeswoman for FlightStats, which compiles flight statistics for various travel businesses. "At this point, the system is so tightly wound that if you just have reduced staffing or bad weather or airport congestion or a VIP flying through, you [quickly] get to the breaking point."

Andy Wisbacher, spokesman for the Northwest chapter of the Association of Flight Attendants, said he has had three A320 flights cancelled in the past two weeks due to a shortage of pilot crews.

"I can only imagine that Northwest knew about this going into the summer and didn't plan properly," he said. "I expect it will go on through the summer."

 

[Occam's Razor]

Glad to hear rumors of MECs working together for mutual benefit.

And to think we owe all of this new-found bonhomie to our dear brothers at the RJDC. And by "owe", I mean "in spite of".

One List would be a whole lot better than a bi-directional flow through.

I agree. I also think it would cost more at the table. Willing to help pay the cost?

[cricket...cricket...]

Any news on if pass benefit changes, loss of longevity and probationary pay can be negotiated away?

"Pass benefit changes"? Describe the current pass benefit arrangement between Northwest and Mesaba...and what changes you feel would be appropriate.

The longevity and probationary terms are being negotiated right now. I'm sure our loyal brother, "Braveheart" will post an RJDC Update with the only possible acceptable terms for all parties.

NorthWest would not be many people's first choice for a mainline carrier, especially if they had a halfway bearable job at a small jet carrier. NorthWest may actually need some help in the future -or even right now....

I've heard. Legacies suck! Why anyone would support "one list" with a legacy airline is beyone me!

When NWA starts hiring in a couple of months, we'll restrict hiring to those applicants describing their current jobs as "less than 40% bearable". That way we'll only get 10,000 qualified apps....

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

Baloney.

Remember, this is the MEC that got a $15 million bargaining credit for diverting growth from Mesaba and Pinnacle while standing up another alter ego carrier so that your flying may be sub contracted to the "preferred" airline staffed by Northwest furloughees.

Yeah, Mesaba is giving up something for this and probably something significant further reducing working conditions at the low end so that a few senior pilots might pass through to the promised land while Northwest is hiring off the street or drawing from Compass.

Read point 7 first:

http://www.rjdefense.com/2003/10_Things_About_Scope.pdf

I wanted to stay out of this, but...

1. I don't see many "senior" pilots going for the flow-thru.
2. NW is NOT the promised land!
3. It'll work for some, and not for others...that's just it's nature.
4. Have you ever met a HAPPY NW employee? Me either, and I don't blame them!
5. If I'm going to be unhappy, I'm going to be SENIOR and unhappy, NOT on the bottom of a reserve list in DTW getting tricked out in a crappy -9 by some NW scheduling pimp, and UNHAPPY!

Just my coupla thoughts for what they're worth...it's free and you get what you pay for!

 

[Rough67]

.....

 

[Occam's Razor]

RE: 1. I don't see many "senior" pilots going for the flow-thru.

Do you see where I left my car keys? Do you see AT&T stock going up more than 10% in the next 6-months?

Thanks in advance!

RE: 2. NW is NOT the promised land!

If only your view was a first-person observation.

I'm not sure any airline can be described by a rational person as the "promised land". The question is, and has always been: Is it better'n what you got now?

If your answer is "no", the solution is easy...stay the heck away. Best part? You have 100% control over that solution.

RE: 3. It'll work for some, and not for others...that's just it's nature.

Agree! Not that it's difficult to agree with a statement as ambiguous as that.

RE: 4. Have you ever met a HAPPY NW employee?

Heck yeah! I'm one of 'em! My mood and attitude are Personal intellectual choices. They aren't controled by dweebs like NWA management. I pity the simps who allow their boss to influence their blood pressure.

RE: 5. If I'm going to be unhappy, I'm going to be SENIOR and unhappy, NOT on the bottom of a reserve list in DTW getting tricked out in a crappy -9 by some NW scheduling pimp, and UNHAPPY!

Sounds like you got it all figured out. Good for you. I encourage all pilots to view their career options with the same clinical eye. If it couldn't possibly be better for you elsewhere...stay where you are.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

That'd be cool. I think it'd be even cooler if the MEC(s) had simply pulled the trigger on a PID and expedited the Single Carrier Status petition. But since I'm not an officer, all I can do is bark at my reps to push for that, and accept what they do accomplish.

A one list would probably be valued at $400-$500 million dollar loss to NWA. It's truly sad that the MEC won't force a confrontation, there is really no better time than now. How does a metered flowback help any NWA pilot?

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

RE: 1. I don't see many "senior" pilots going for the flow-thru.

Do you see where I left my car keys? Do you see AT&T stock going up more than 10% in the next 6-months?

Thanks in advance!

RE: 2. NW is NOT the promised land!

If only your view was a first-person observation.

I'm not sure any airline can be described by a rational person as the "promised land". The question is, and has always been: Is it better'n what you got now?

If your answer is "no", the solution is easy...stay the heck away. Best part? You have 100% control over that solution.

RE: 3. It'll work for some, and not for others...that's just it's nature.

Agree! Not that it's difficult to agree with a statement as ambiguous as that.

RE: 4. Have you ever met a HAPPY NW employee?

Heck yeah! I'm one of 'em! My mood and attitude are Personal intellectual choices. They aren't controled by dweebs like NWA management. I pity the simps who allow their boss to influence their blood pressure.

RE: 5. If I'm going to be unhappy, I'm going to be SENIOR and unhappy, NOT on the bottom of a reserve list in DTW getting tricked out in a crappy -9 by some NW scheduling pimp, and UNHAPPY!

Sounds like you got it all figured out. Good for you. I encourage all pilots to view their career options with the same clinical eye. If it couldn't possibly be better for you elsewhere...stay where you are.

I knew you'd be the first to post...now, it seems as though you and I are in agreement on the key points...as for my "not seeing" many of the seniors going to NW...I'm not Miss Cleo, but my observation comes from having actually TALKED to many of these guys whom I have access to FIRST HAND (which makes for a pretty good vantage point albeit not as accurate as one of ALPA's Wilson polls)...I concede that a guy never really knows what he'll do until the opportunity is put in front of him...as far as NW not being the "promised land"...well great oracle, you hit that one on the head too...it's NOT a first-person observation, but one from a close enough vantage point to be accurate when stating MY OPINION! (Which you seem to understand that's EXACTLY what it is!)...and you know, we are in agreement about staying where we're happy and not allowing MGT to raise our blood pressure...and I AM staying where I am so good for you again! Really the only difference between us as indicated here is that most everybody I meet likes me, and I'm guessing you're on a few "no-fly" lists.... As for where you left your car keys, check the gay bar down the street from your crash pad...

 

[Occam's Razor]

Yikes!

RE: Really the only difference between us as indicated here is that most everybody I meet likes me, and I'm guessing you're on a few "no-fly" lists....

C'mon...there are lots of differences between us! One of them is the topic of this thread: The flow-thru. I'm on the "other" side in that I'm where I want to be, and will not have to evaluate the flow-thru as a career choice. My interest is purely as it reflects the actions of my union.

I guessing you have a different perspective on the issue.

See? A reasonable difference.

RE: As for where you left your car keys, check the gay bar down the street from your crash pad...

Aaaaaaaand....did you find them?