Mesaba/Colgan guys, some 9E news

[DoinTime]

So, Express pilots were ENTITLED jobs at Mesaba? Or was it just a nice thing to do?

If this joint deal falls through and this transaction turns into a fragmentation instead of a merger, Mesaba pilots are entitled to jobs at Pinnacle in every way that Express I pilots were entitled to jobs at Mesaba in '97. If this were a fragmentation, the circumstances are very similar to the circumstances in '97. When you consider the marketing conditions that the Mesaba MEC tried to attach this LOA to in '02-'03 the commonality between now and then is especially obvious.

LOA 21 was a piece of crap and it was a slap in the face of how a national union should operate within themselves. The Express I MEC at the time should have been way more aggressive in protecting those jobs but had Mesaba's MEC made a commitment to embrace the owners of the jobs they were taking in '97 this wouldn't be an issue right now.

 

[bri5150]

You got me Smarta$$, I am old. Old enough to have my job/seat threatened about 5 times here at XJ. Old enough to have been downgraded more than once. Old enough to have concessions forced upon me, only to have new hire pilots tell me I sold out in accepting the contract. Now I see junior pilots drooling over my aircraft and how they will screw me in integration. I'm still fighting though, except we fight mgmt. over here, not other pilots. Our MEC leaders and membership are strong, hardened in battle you might say.

I would rather have all these drooling pilots standing beside me. I would rather put up a united front, ALPA against mgmt. Instead I find myself on FI stating how a 13 year old LOA should not, will not, a cannot be accepted by this ENTIRE pilot group.

I might be old, but there's still a lot of fight left in me. Let's just focus that energy together against mgmt. To make this the best airline/contract/pilot group in our part of the industry.

Right on CptMurf. I am not sure why the Pinnacle pilots feel so strongly about screwing Mesaba pilots. I am sure someone will reply that it isn't our choice they are going to use the LOA. Have you contacted your rep about how you don't want it used? Have you spent any energy trying to get the integrated seniority list so everyone is integrated fairly? I know you can say that the ones that are talking smack are in the minority, but I have only seen those that talk smack. I can honestly say I have not had a positve experience talking with ANY Pinnacle pilot EVER, other than the one that I knew from flight school. It's always about how you are going to get screwed...LOA this, LOA that. STFU and get something useful done by saying you want a fair integration. Not a single time have I ever heard a Mesaba pilot talk about how we should get better treatment for anything in this process. Fair integration. That's all I have ever heard coming out of Mesaba pilots.

Oh, this is obviously a general statement and not directed at CptMurf. I completely agree with what he says.

 

[Smarta$$]

How about a little respect for the guys that have just been put and are going through hell? I've been furloughed, and it ain't fun. I am not a violent man, but I remember many a pillow taking a beating. Just because they aren't a super pilot like yourself, doesn't mean you can talk smack. Again, a little respect for what they are going through please.

Actually, in 2 out of 3 cases, it was definitely their attitude that was a factor. I did also notice serious proficiency shortfalls as well, but I would cut them slack if their attitude was good.

As far as having respect, 2 out of 3 were young, arrogant punks, exhibiting an attitude I will NOT respect.

I didn't specify that in my post, so I will let your remarks roll off.

 

[bri5150]

If this joint deal falls through and this transaction turns into a fragmentation instead of a merger, Mesaba pilots are entitled to jobs at Pinnacle in every way that Express I pilots were entitled to jobs at Mesaba in '97. If this were a fragmentation, the circumstances are very similar to the circumstances in '97. When you consider the marketing conditions that the Mesaba MEC tried to attach this LOA to in '02-'03 the commonality between now and then is especially obvious.

LOA 21 was a piece of crap and it was a slap in the face of how a national union should operate within themselves. The Express I MEC at the time should have been way more aggressive in protecting those jobs but had Mesaba's MEC made a commitment to embrace the owners of the jobs they were taking in '97 this wouldn't be an issue right now.

If it's such a piece of crap, why try and use it now? My point is that Express pilots were not "entitled" jobs at Mesaba. From what I know, that was a courtesy more than anything, not something that needed to be done by any stretch of the imagination. Here, there is scope involved, so it's more of an "entitlement" issue as per our contract. God I hate the word "entitle". This is real simple. Pinnacle pilots need to all get together and say that using the LOA will not happen. We won't let our fellow company pilots get screwed and we expect them to not screw us if something should come up in the future. SIMPLE!! Until that is done, you will not get my respect as a pilot group (not that anyone should care I guess).

 

[Smarta$$]

You got me Smarta$$, I am old. Old enough to have my job/seat threatened about 5 times here at XJ. Old enough to have been downgraded more than once. Old enough to have concessions forced upon me, only to have new hire pilots tell me I sold out in accepting the contract. Now I see junior pilots drooling over my aircraft and how they will screw me in integration. I'm still fighting though, except we fight mgmt. over here, not other pilots. Our MEC leaders and membership are strong, hardened in battle you might say.

I would rather have all these drooling pilots standing beside me. I would rather put up a united front, ALPA against mgmt. Instead I find myself on FI stating how a 13 year old LOA should not, will not, a cannot be accepted by this ENTIRE pilot group.

I might be old, but there's still a lot of fight left in me. Let's just focus that energy together against mgmt. To make this the best airline/contract/pilot group in our part of the industry.

First, I apologize for calling you grandpa. It was in response to a statement you had made. Forget it.

Now, go back and read my posts in this thread that led to you addressing me and show me where I;

1. Mentioned the LOA.

2. Belittled any Mesaba pilot.

3. Threatened or spoke down to any Mesaba pilot (Seven excluded).

My posts were intended to get ALL of the pilots from all 3 airlines geared up for a fight against management because the 15th will come and go, and we will NOT have a contract.

You had no reason to address me the way you did. Especially since you and I share the same views of where our energy should focus.

As for the 9E pilots bringing up the LOA, ignore them. There are some in every group that can't see past their own selfishness. We have more of those here than you can possibly imagine. It is the main reason we are 5 years without a contract here. But it is not being discussed by our MEC. So... ignore the selfish uninformed.

 

[Smarta$$]

Right on CptMurf. I am not sure why the Pinnacle pilots feel so strongly about screwing Mesaba pilots. I am sure someone will reply that it isn't our choice they are going to use the LOA. Have you contacted your rep about how you don't want it used? Have you spent any energy trying to get the integrated seniority list so everyone is integrated fairly? I know you can say that the ones that are talking smack are in the minority, but I have only seen those that talk smack. I can honestly say I have not had a positve experience talking with ANY Pinnacle pilot EVER, other than the one that I knew from flight school. It's always about how you are going to get screwed...LOA this, LOA that. STFU and get something useful done by saying you want a fair integration. Not a single time have I ever heard a Mesaba pilot talk about how we should get better treatment for anything in this process. Fair integration. That's all I have ever heard coming out of Mesaba pilots.

Oh, this is obviously a general statement and not directed at CptMurf. I completely agree with what he says.

I never mentioned the LOA or anything even remotely close to it there Nancy.

 

[bri5150]

Actually, in 2 out of 3 cases, it was definitely their attitude that was a factor. I did also notice serious proficiency shortfalls as well, but I would cut them slack if their attitude was good.

As far as having respect, 2 out of 3 were young, arrogant punks, exhibiting an attitude I will NOT respect.

I didn't specify that in my post, so I will let your remarks roll off.

Okay, obviously I don't know the situation, so I am going to make some sweeping generalizations. Seeing as you are at Pinnacle, I would assume you have never been furloughed. So, put yourself in their position. Let's say you spent 6 months at the very bottom of the Pinnacle seniority list. Then they furlough you. After that, it is announced that the airline you were conditioned to hate bought Pinnacle. You get offered a job at said hated airline, so you take it because it's better than not working. Now, you go through the training department (which I believe is common knowledge not that good), and you get to commute to the bottom of the list again. So, about 1.5 years of your life has been at the bottom of a list, commuting, and furloughed. Cut the guys some slack. If they are truly just young punks, then I take this all back, because I too can't stand that. If they are a bit disillusioned with what is going on, take it easy.

 

[bri5150]

I never mentioned the LOA or anything even remotely close to it there Nancy.

And I never mentioned you, or anything even close to it there Nancy.

 

[bri5150]

I have flown with 3 former Mesaba pilots in the last month, and I am NOT impressed.

.

Haven't said anything bad about Mesaba pilots?

 

[DoinTime]

If it's such a piece of crap, why try and use it now? My point is that Express pilots were not "entitled" jobs at Mesaba. From what I know, that was a courtesy more than anything, not something that needed to be done by any stretch of the imagination. Here, there is scope involved, so it's more of an "entitlement" issue as per our contract. God I hate the word "entitle". This is real simple. Pinnacle pilots need to all get together and say that using the LOA will not happen. We won't let our fellow company pilots get screwed and we expect them to not screw us if something should come up in the future. SIMPLE!! Until that is done, you will not get my respect as a pilot group (not that anyone should care I guess).

What Scope? There is nothing in the Mesaba book that can't be worked around. Even if it did apply it provides for nothing more than "employment opportunities". You'd be hard pressed to apply that to anything more than a spot in a new hire class.

The heart of the issue here is that the Mesaba pilot group doesn't seem to have any remorse for the a** f**king they gave Pinnacle pilots back in '97. Now that the tables are turned Mesaba pilots expect and demand better treatment than what they gave while refusing to acknowledge their own past misdeeds. Come out and say that what you did in '97 was unfair, then you might get some respect and compassion.