Mesaba/Colgan guys, some 9E news

[Flyer1015]

G. RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT
In the event that a transaction such as the one which gave rise to this Letter
of Agreement occurs in the future, where such transaction involves in a net
loss of pilot positions at Mesaba and a net gain of pilot positions at Express,
it is hereby agreed that the parties shall enter into a Letter of Agreement to
provide for the transfer of Mesaba pilots to Express, under terms and
conditions no less favorable than the terms and conditions of this Letter of
Agreement.

One of our recalled MEC members has already stated on another forum that we should give them as good a deal that Mesaba MEC gave to Express pilots, "if not even better."

 

[Carl_Spackler]

One of our recalled MEC members has already stated on another forum that we should give them as good a deal that Mesaba MEC gave to Express pilots, "if not even better."

That is correct. The LOA states the minimum of what has to be offered. Anything offered over the minimum will come at the expense of seniority for current 9E pilots. I can't even imagine the firestorm that would be created if our MEC gave seniority away. As I said earlier, I'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions. What ever happens there are going to be a lot of po'd pilots.

...unless we get a TA by the 15th

 

[Flyer1015]

I can't even imagine the firestorm that would be created if our MEC gave seniority away

Well, I think pilots are used to it. The junior FOs had a wage increase turned down, and then had their bonus money tied to W2 earnings, which were obviously lower since the union had turned down a raise for year 1 and 2 pilots. Yet, when it came to Mesaba new FOs, our MEC in a heartbeat got them a MOU of coming to Pinnacle with transferring longevity. I think it's clear that others come first, Pinnacle junior pilots come last. To address your comment, I wouldn't be surprised if Pinnacle pilots were sold down the river by our own. It's happened before, it could happen again.

 

[rene]

Funny how all the CJC alpo chest thumpers where blabbing on and on about this new contract in 45 days! I just laugh at you guys.. WTF were you thinking?? I mean this is PNCL mgmt we are talking about. Just own up to it and tell the pilot group the TRUTH! There will be NO contract anytime soon.. (my guess another 1-2YRS) CJC ALPA has been on the road visiting all the bases to talk to the pilots about the progress of the negotiations.. BUT, they are still blowing sunshine up everybody's arse. Another thing... I keep hearing 50 seat pay for the Q400? SERIOUSLY!!! But its ok because its based on CRJ 50 seat pay.. gimme a break. Welp,, Here is one big NO vote. Pay for the seats and the profitability of the plane, not what powers it.

Just remember ..... this business is constantly changing. Mesa is coming out of bankruptcy very soon, they have some of the best performance in the industry, and one of the best pilot contracts. I think its interesting that Mesa chose NOT to change the ALPA CBA in bankruptcy when nearly every other airline has.


Just my two cents

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Just remember ..... this business is constantly changing. Mesa is coming out of bankruptcy very soon, they have some of the best performance in the industry, and one of the best pilot contracts. I think its interesting that Mesa chose NOT to change the ALPA CBA in bankruptcy when nearly every other airline has.


Just my two cents

The best for who? Pilots, or management?

 

[redflyer65]

Pinnacle management has been laughing all the way to the bank for 10 YEARS! How many millions has Phil deposited on the back of the lowest wages in the industry?

At the same time giving the union the middle finger. Simply Amazing.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[CptMurf]

If the JCBA doesn't happen by the 15th and the CRJ's start to be transferred to 9E what makes you think the LOA will not apply? I assume that you've read the LOA?

Here is part of the LOA:

G. RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT
In the event that a transaction such as the one which gave rise to this Letter
of Agreement occurs in the future, where such transaction involves in a net
loss of pilot positions at Mesaba and a net gain of pilot positions at Express,
it is hereby agreed that the parties shall enter into a Letter of Agreement to
provide for the transfer of Mesaba pilots to Express, under terms and
conditions no less favorable than the terms and conditions of this Letter of
Agreement.

Not going to happen. This is not even close to "the transaction such as the one that gives rise to this letter." Not to mention the reciprocation section states a negotiation would have to take place.

We will merge nicely, or this company will fail divided. Quit looking for your personal gain in this. You will be swinging my gear even if there were a 2-1.

I hope these last couple of posts are not indicative of my future work environment!

 

[Smarta$$]

And our pilots never have and never will have the courage or sense of self worth to fight back.

 

[CptMurf]

And our pilots never have and never will have the courage or sense of self worth to fight back.

Ours have, and will. Join us, or get out of the way.

 

[bri5150]

That is correct. The LOA states the minimum of what has to be offered. Anything offered over the minimum will come at the expense of seniority for current 9E pilots. I can't even imagine the firestorm that would be created if our MEC gave seniority away. As I said earlier, I'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions. What ever happens there are going to be a lot of po'd pilots.

...unless we get a TA by the 15th

Why would there be a "firestorm" against Mesaba pilots? Shouldn't you have a "firestorm" against the company that hasn't given you a new contract in 5+ years? And where was the offer when Mesaba was in bankruptcy losing half their pilot group and Pinnacle was hiring because they were still taking 200's? This situation is different because NWA pulled airplanes from Express and gave them to Mesaba. Is Delta pulling airplanes from Mesaba and giving them to Pinnacle here? I would venture to say that when Mesaba was in bankruptcy was much closer to the situation the LOA is talking about than this situation now.

edit: And why aren't the Mesaba pilots grandstading and saying they are going to give Colgan pilots 2 for 1? Because it isn't the right thing to do?

 

[Smarta$$]

Ours have, and will. Join us, or get out of the way.

I haven't said anything negative about a Mesaba pilot (except Seven). But listen hear grandpa, I have seen nothing from Mesaba pilots besides a NASCAR taxi. Show me you guys will fight this management in a meaningful way, and then I will respect you. While you are on your high horse, I have flown with 3 former Mesaba pilots in the last month, and I am NOT impressed.

Now, gear up for a fight. We are going to need it, and 9E pilots have never shown the spine. Lets see what you got.

 

[DoinTime]

Why would there be a "firestorm" against Mesaba pilots? Shouldn't you have a "firestorm" against the company that hasn't given you a new contract in 5+ years? And where was the offer when Mesaba was in bankruptcy losing half their pilot group and Pinnacle was hiring because they were still taking 200's? This situation is different because NWA pulled airplanes from Express and gave them to Mesaba. Is Delta pulling airplanes from Mesaba and giving them to Pinnacle here? I would venture to say that when Mesaba was in bankruptcy was much closer to the situation the LOA is talking about than this situation now.

edit: And why aren't the Mesaba pilots grandstading and saying they are going to give Colgan pilots 2 for 1? Because it isn't the right thing to do?

Pinnacle was not taking delivery of aircraft during the NWA/Mesaba bankruptcies. Along with the capacity cuts that mainline and Mesaba took as part of the reorganization, Pinnacle had 15 CRJ-200s grounded. The bankruptcy was nothing more than unfortunate circumstances in an unstable profession where everyone shared pain. It in no way entitled you to jobs at Pinnacle.

 

[Flyer1015]

We will merge nicely, or this company will fail divided. Quit looking for your personal gain in this. You will be swinging my gear even if there were a 2-1.

No merger unless a JCBA and a SLI come. JCBA looks very remote. I'd be more worried about what happens to XJ once the Saabs from the Delta system are parked. Going down to just 36 CRJ900s and 17 CRJ200s would be horrible. I wouldn't make any slinging gear comments at this point.

 

[bri5150]

Pinnacle was not taking delivery of aircraft during the NWA/Mesaba bankruptcies. Along with the capacity cuts that mainline and Mesaba took as part of the reorganization, Pinnacle had 15 CRJ-200s grounded. The bankruptcy was nothing more than unfortunate circumstances in an unstable profession where everyone shared pain. It in no way entitled you to jobs at Pinnacle.

So, Express pilots were ENTITLED jobs at Mesaba? Or was it just a nice thing to do?

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Not going to happen. This is not even close to "the transaction such as the one that gives rise to this letter." Not to mention the reciprocation section states a negotiation would have to take place.

We will merge nicely, or this company will fail divided. Quit looking for your personal gain in this. You will be swinging my gear even if there were a 2-1.

I hope these last couple of posts are not indicative of my future work environment!

I can't speak for you, but I'm not a lawyer. I think the there is a transaction taking place, there will be a net loss of pilots at Mesaba, and there will be a net gain of pilots at Pinnacle. If this is the case then the parties shall negotiate another LOA that would transfer pilots and seniority to Pinnacle. What kind of seniority credit is agreed to is the $64,000 question. Something is going to happen one way or another. This is the way I see it happening IF we don't get a JCBA. Obviously you don't agree.

Ah, the old "you'll be swinging my gear" barb. I don't mind operating the landing gear, in fact I do it all of the time when I'm the PM. With a 1-2 or DOH, I'll still be in the left seat.

 

[bri5150]

, I have flown with 3 former Mesaba pilots in the last month, and I am NOT impressed.

Now, gear up for a fight. We are going to need it, and 9E pilots have never shown the spine. Lets see what you got.

How about a little respect for the guys that have just been put and are going through hell? I've been furloughed, and it ain't fun. I am not a violent man, but I remember many a pillow taking a beating. Just because they aren't a super pilot like yourself, doesn't mean you can talk smack. Again, a little respect for what they are going through please.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Why would there be a "firestorm" against Mesaba pilots? Shouldn't you have a "firestorm" against the company that hasn't given you a new contract in 5+ years? And where was the offer when Mesaba was in bankruptcy losing half their pilot group and Pinnacle was hiring because they were still taking 200's? This situation is different because NWA pulled airplanes from Express and gave them to Mesaba. Is Delta pulling airplanes from Mesaba and giving them to Pinnacle here? I would venture to say that when Mesaba was in bankruptcy was much closer to the situation the LOA is talking about than this situation now.

edit: And why aren't the Mesaba pilots grandstading and saying they are going to give Colgan pilots 2 for 1? Because it isn't the right thing to do?

No firestorm against Mesaba pilots, it would be against 9E ALPA for sacrificing 9E pilots seniority more than is provided for in the LOA.

There is no agreement between XJ and 9L for transfer of seniority and there doesn't need to be because there are merging.

 

[CptMurf]

Pinnacle was not taking delivery of aircraft during the NWA/Mesaba bankruptcies. Along with the capacity cuts that mainline and Mesaba took as part of the reorganization, Pinnacle had 15 CRJ-200s grounded. The bankruptcy was nothing more than unfortunate circumstances in an unstable profession where everyone shared pain. It in no way entitled you to jobs at Pinnacle.

Dointime is right there was no reason to reciprocate due to the circumstances of the BK. Now if you look back to about 2003, well then that's a different story.

 

[CptMurf]

Where's Higney85 to settle down his fellow pilots? This directly relates to our discussion about a month ago.

 

[CptMurf]

I haven't said anything negative about a Mesaba pilot (except Seven). But listen hear grandpa, I have seen nothing from Mesaba pilots besides a NASCAR taxi. Show me you guys will fight this management in a meaningful way, and then I will respect you. While you are on your high horse, I have flown with 3 former Mesaba pilots in the last month, and I am NOT impressed.

Now, gear up for a fight. We are going to need it, and 9E pilots have never shown the spine. Lets see what you got.

You got me Smarta$$, I am old. Old enough to have my job/seat threatened about 5 times here at XJ. Old enough to have been downgraded more than once. Old enough to have concessions forced upon me, only to have new hire pilots tell me I sold out in accepting the contract. Now I see junior pilots drooling over my aircraft and how they will screw me in integration. I'm still fighting though, except we fight mgmt. over here, not other pilots. Our MEC leaders and membership are strong, hardened in battle you might say.

I would rather have all these drooling pilots standing beside me. I would rather put up a united front, ALPA against mgmt. Instead I find myself on FI stating how a 13 year old LOA should not, will not, a cannot be accepted by this ENTIRE pilot group.

I might be old, but there's still a lot of fight left in me. Let's just focus that energy together against mgmt. To make this the best airline/contract/pilot group in our part of the industry.